Thread
eBay 400MHz Wallstreet II?
I recently bought a Wallstreet II from eBay and I am not sure it was a great transaction. First of all I think the seller (or an interested party) engaged in the schilling scheme and I overpaid dearly.
Second is the model. The case is Walstreet II with 266MHz spec'd on the bottom and no USB. However, System Profiler claims the CPU is 400MHz. The Machine ID is 312 - Wallstreet II along with its family number.
The machine arrived with 9.2.2 installed from an image by a site called OS9Lives and claims to be compiled from various sources.
So here I am with an expensive Wallstreet II in good condition with a mysterious CPU and a suspect version of 9.2.2 that likes to freeze. I could send it back since I doubt it was worth what I paid but I am curious if System Profiler is correct in reporting 400MHz or if this particular compilation of 9.2.2 is misreading it.
Thoughts?
Second is the model. The case is Walstreet II with 266MHz spec'd on the bottom and no USB. However, System Profiler claims the CPU is 400MHz. The Machine ID is 312 - Wallstreet II along with its family number.
The machine arrived with 9.2.2 installed from an image by a site called OS9Lives and claims to be compiled from various sources.
So here I am with an expensive Wallstreet II in good condition with a mysterious CPU and a suspect version of 9.2.2 that likes to freeze. I could send it back since I doubt it was worth what I paid but I am curious if System Profiler is correct in reporting 400MHz or if this particular compilation of 9.2.2 is misreading it.
Thoughts?
It's possible it's had a CPU upgrade, the version of OS 9 is legitimate though.
I thought about that, too. Looking under the keyboard has not revealed anything obvious yet. I haven't pulled the processor yet to check its numbers.
I suppose my suspicions about the auction are working their way into the machine. I never thought about putting a Lombard processor into a Wallstreet. The seller certainly didn't know.
I suppose my suspicions about the auction are working their way into the machine. I never thought about putting a Lombard processor into a Wallstreet. The seller certainly didn't know.
Don't think a Lombard or Pismo CPU (100Mhz bus speed compared to 66 or 83 for a Wallstreet) will work in a Wallstreet, if there is a 400mhz CPU in there its an aftermarket one if they exist.
I've also got a PDQuicker/FleetStreet, everything I run reports that it's 333MHz, which is faster than a stock WSII.
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/21081-re-pdq-has-delusions-of-333mhz-lombardness/
OS9Lives is a great site and that universal installer image is the bomb. ISTR one WS fetching what folks thought was a lot of money until someone pointed out that it had a G4 upgrade card in it.
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/21081-re-pdq-has-delusions-of-333mhz-lombardness/
OS9Lives is a great site and that universal installer image is the bomb. ISTR one WS fetching what folks thought was a lot of money until someone pointed out that it had a G4 upgrade card in it.
I remember Lombard to Wallstreet swaps were iffy. It does not fork with the 233MHz Wallstreet, but it worked on the 266MHz and PDQ - sometimes. But there were third party CPU upgrades.
I would say look over the seller's other auctions and see if there is something similar going on in those auctions. And then if there is, report it to Ebay.
I would say look over the seller's other auctions and see if there is something similar going on in those auctions. And then if there is, report it to Ebay.
Well, you seems to have a WS with a rare CPU upgrade card.
See on this collection list :
http://www.powerbuch.ch/powerbook%20list%20of%20collection/index.html
It list some Wallstreets with 400, 450 and even G4 500 Mhz cards !
Check screenshots here :
http://www.powerbuch.ch/powerbook%20gallery%20overview/gallery%20powerbook%20G3%20wallstreet/index.htm
lucky man.
See on this collection list :
http://www.powerbuch.ch/powerbook%20list%20of%20collection/index.html
It list some Wallstreets with 400, 450 and even G4 500 Mhz cards !
Check screenshots here :
http://www.powerbuch.ch/powerbook%20gallery%20overview/gallery%20powerbook%20G3%20wallstreet/index.htm
lucky man.
If an Apple CPU daughtercard, it could be an overclocked unit (300 to 400 is not unfeasible - I had a 233 @ 300Mhz for some years). Check the resistors of any soldering jobs.
Great link. Second one 404s though.
WS/333MHz is not on that collection's listing. "Delusions of Lombardness" might have been on the money after all? I figured it was overclocked, never thought about the possibility of a CPU Card compatibility between the two. I wonder if the system bus of the WS would need to be overclocked, if the Lombard's CPU tolerates the mismatch, or might have been designed to support the PDQ's clock in development?
Gotta check part numbers in the service source specs. [
] ]'>
WS/333MHz is not on that collection's listing. "Delusions of Lombardness" might have been on the money after all? I figured it was overclocked, never thought about the possibility of a CPU Card compatibility between the two. I wonder if the system bus of the WS would need to be overclocked, if the Lombard's CPU tolerates the mismatch, or might have been designed to support the PDQ's clock in development?
Gotta check part numbers in the service source specs. [
] ]'>
Ah yes sorry , good link :
http://www.powerbuch.ch/powerbook%20gallery%20overview/gallery%20powerbook%20G3%20wallstreet/index.html
http://www.powerbuch.ch/powerbook%20gallery%20overview/gallery%20powerbook%20G3%20wallstreet/index.html
I will have time later this weekend to remove the heat sink plate and take a look at the processor. If it is an upgrade card, that will be the silver lining to this auction.
Elfen: The seller doesn't seem to sell with regularity. His other sales are so long ago that they aren't listed. I called eBay about my scam suspicions but they couldn't care less. Can't say I'm surprised about a company nicknamed fleabay.
Trash80: Glad to know about OS9Lives and the validity of the universal installer. I'm more of a System7 user but I do like the funky aesthetic to 9.2 before the minimalistic look of OS X. OS9 was always the OS that froze on me at school. 7 & 8 were fine save for hot plugging printers into 190/5300 PowerBooks.
I have to play around with this version of 9.2.2 a bit more. I am not convinced yet of its stability. It tends to freeze when I leave the computer for an hour. Then when I press the reset key combination it will unfreeze for a moment before reboot. Maybe the extensions are out of whack.
galgot: I'll report back if I find an upgrade card (or anything else unusual). Thanks for the links. The bottom plate of mine states 1998 and the only 400MHz Wallstreet listed by that link puts it in 1999.
Byrd: I'll check for evidence of soldering. I hope it isn't a overclocked 266. Somewhere I have SpeedTools but its hiding here somewhere.
Elfen: The seller doesn't seem to sell with regularity. His other sales are so long ago that they aren't listed. I called eBay about my scam suspicions but they couldn't care less. Can't say I'm surprised about a company nicknamed fleabay.
Trash80: Glad to know about OS9Lives and the validity of the universal installer. I'm more of a System7 user but I do like the funky aesthetic to 9.2 before the minimalistic look of OS X. OS9 was always the OS that froze on me at school. 7 & 8 were fine save for hot plugging printers into 190/5300 PowerBooks.
I have to play around with this version of 9.2.2 a bit more. I am not convinced yet of its stability. It tends to freeze when I leave the computer for an hour. Then when I press the reset key combination it will unfreeze for a moment before reboot. Maybe the extensions are out of whack.
galgot: I'll report back if I find an upgrade card (or anything else unusual). Thanks for the links. The bottom plate of mine states 1998 and the only 400MHz Wallstreet listed by that link puts it in 1999.
Byrd: I'll check for evidence of soldering. I hope it isn't a overclocked 266. Somewhere I have SpeedTools but its hiding here somewhere.
Not looking good on the processor upgrade theory; At least not from a 3rd party. I have yet to remove the processor card from the PowerBook but attached is a photo of the top.
Copyright 1998 Apple Computer. P/N 820-1019-A
That part number came up as a 233 chip when I did a quick search, which is contrary to both System Profiler and the bottom plate specs. Which brings me back to this 9.2.2 build- could it be misreading the chip?
Would evidence of overclock soldering be on the bottom of the processor card?
Copyright 1998 Apple Computer. P/N 820-1019-A
That part number came up as a 233 chip when I did a quick search, which is contrary to both System Profiler and the bottom plate specs. Which brings me back to this 9.2.2 build- could it be misreading the chip?
Would evidence of overclock soldering be on the bottom of the processor card?
Maybe if you boot it on another system, 8.6 or something else than that 9.2.2, from a CD or CF card, see what System Profiler would say ?
What is the schilling scheme?
galgot: Good idea. As is always the case when something like this happens, I am away from my computer world with all my discs. Times like these BIOS would be helpful.
Actually, I just found a Jaguar install set. I'll see if I can boot from it.
tanuki65: the idea behind the Schilling Scheme is that someone places bids on behalf of the seller to increase the price. In my case, someone placed an absurdly high bid to test how high my proxy bid (auto-bid to preset maximum) went. When they got that information they cancelled their bid.
Actually, I just found a Jaguar install set. I'll see if I can boot from it.
tanuki65: the idea behind the Schilling Scheme is that someone places bids on behalf of the seller to increase the price. In my case, someone placed an absurdly high bid to test how high my proxy bid (auto-bid to preset maximum) went. When they got that information they cancelled their bid.
No luck with About this Mac when booted from the 10.2 CD. I also managed to mess up the 9.2.2 installation and am greeted by the flashing question mark at startup.
Crazy Idea: What if somebody res-edited the system profiller to read 400 mhz so they could sell it for more...
That's not a crazy idea at all. In this case they listed it as 266, which I presume they did because of the info on the bottom plate.
On a seperate note, when I plug it into AC the fan and power light come on for about five seconds. Is that a normal thing with these PowerBooks? Sign of flat PRAM battery?
So I am within my rights to return it. Other than a broken modem cover, this particular example is in nice condition. The bottom looks brand new. The top has some scuffs but its not as bad as a majority I have seen. The hard drive was upgraded to a 40 GiB Toshiba but its loud and most likely 4200RPM.
I like the weight, thickness, and multi-colored logo. I have a Pismo with 10.4 but there is something fun about OS 9 in a thicker machine. Maybe I should just keep it.
On a seperate note, when I plug it into AC the fan and power light come on for about five seconds. Is that a normal thing with these PowerBooks? Sign of flat PRAM battery?
So I am within my rights to return it. Other than a broken modem cover, this particular example is in nice condition. The bottom looks brand new. The top has some scuffs but its not as bad as a majority I have seen. The hard drive was upgraded to a 40 GiB Toshiba but its loud and most likely 4200RPM.
I like the weight, thickness, and multi-colored logo. I have a Pismo with 10.4 but there is something fun about OS 9 in a thicker machine. Maybe I should just keep it.
A bad pram battery causes what you describe... It's actually a backup battery designed to power the system in sleep mode all by itself for several minutes giving you time to swap to a fresh battery or plug in...
I've had a few wallstreet/pdq's identify as 400 as well- i think it's a bug in certain builds of the system/system profiler- usually after a reinstall they show up correctly.
Great link. Second one 404s though.
WS/333MHz is not on that collection's listing. "Delusions of Lombardness" might have been on the money after all? I figured it was overclocked, never thought about the possibility of a CPU Card compatibility between the two. I wonder if the system bus of the WS would need to be overclocked, if the Lombard's CPU tolerates the mismatch, or might have been designed to support the PDQ's clock in development?
Gotta check part numbers in the service source specs. [
IIRC the faster WS ran an 83MHz bus which is how you ended up with the wierd 250(ish) and 292MHz clockspeed in the top of the line model... at the low end of the lineup, the 233 was at a conventional 66MHz. For the sake of god knows what it was standardised at the slower 66MHz bus speed in the PDQ (or WSII as some refer to it) and the CPU multipliers changed to create a 266MHz and 300MHz mid and high end model. The Lombard maintains the 66MHz bus still, but ran at 333Mhz or 400Mhz, so from that standpoint it makes it look slightly feasible that pinouts and socketry allowing, a Lombardy type upgrade is possible.
By the sounds of it people have tried it and it has indeed worked at least on the PDQ, and I can only imagine that for what it is worth, the discrepency in bus speeds may play some part in why it works seemingly in one series but not the other. Now in having said this, it brings me to ask what of the old nasty and unloved original 233 WS? Is it possible that as it runs a 66MHz bus anyway, that a Lombard CPU may indeed still have worked? This is going of course only on a fairly unsubstanciated assumption that the incompatibility between bus speeds is the deciding factor.
Interesting read, Schmoburger.
Odd that they would standardize the bus speed at 66MHz, at least from a performance perspective. I'm sure it made sense to the bean counters. Now those unusual CPU speeds make more sense.
My research shows the original 233 Wallstreet running at 66MHz. A speed Apple seemed content with for quite some time. That always annoyed me with the G4s; their FSB speed never increased past 167MHz despite ever increasing processor speed.
When I reload 9.1 I will see what CPU speed is reported. I was so excited to 400MHz but the P/N on the CPU card squashed that dream. Ironically, I bought this machine for a no-muss no-fuss writing machine where I would leave it as it and not worry about it.
Odd that they would standardize the bus speed at 66MHz, at least from a performance perspective. I'm sure it made sense to the bean counters. Now those unusual CPU speeds make more sense.
My research shows the original 233 Wallstreet running at 66MHz. A speed Apple seemed content with for quite some time. That always annoyed me with the G4s; their FSB speed never increased past 167MHz despite ever increasing processor speed.
When I reload 9.1 I will see what CPU speed is reported. I was so excited to 400MHz but the P/N on the CPU card squashed that dream. Ironically, I bought this machine for a no-muss no-fuss writing machine where I would leave it as it and not worry about it.
Apple didn't let it get past 1:10 at least, but it indeed was slow. Admittedly, the Pentium "800MHz FSB" was really 200MHz and quad-pumped, but still.
Indeed the 233 was always 66MHz across both models. Then yes, 66MHz was standardised in the PDQ and also the Lombard... being raised to 100MHz with the Pismo which from memory also had AGP graphics. More strangely at least again from performance perspective is that a 66MHz bus speed that was also in place on the beige series G3 desktops even during the tenure of the original 83MHz Wallstreet, and this was not raised to 100MHz until the B+W G3 happened, by which time the WS and PDQ had both come and gone. I've always been perplexed as to why they saw it fit to have a faster bus on the portable than on any of the desktop range. The mid really does boggle at some of Apple's decisions of days gone by...
I reinstalled 9.2 and System Profiler still identifies the CPU as 400MHz, despite the P/N identifying a 233 chip. OS9 moves along quickly enough and I use the machine primarily for writing so 233 or 400, my needs are met. The geek side of me wants to know why but for the sake of efficiency I'll just accept the mystery.
Schmoburger, my mind boggles at some of Apple present decisions. They certainly had some doozies though. My brand new PowerBook 190 arrived with white paper sticking up against the LCD from inside the bezel and the main board failed within six months. As a 5th grader I was squarely accused by some of breaking it, something for which Apple should apologize!
That is strange though, that the portables had a faster bus for a while. Perhaps that thought it wouldn’t be noticed with non EV processors.
Schmoburger, my mind boggles at some of Apple present decisions. They certainly had some doozies though. My brand new PowerBook 190 arrived with white paper sticking up against the LCD from inside the bezel and the main board failed within six months. As a 5th grader I was squarely accused by some of breaking it, something for which Apple should apologize!
That is strange though, that the portables had a faster bus for a while. Perhaps that thought it wouldn’t be noticed with non EV processors.
Benchmark the WS - Norton's System Info is a good test.
I'd be interested in what TattleTech and The Gauge Series might have to say about the machine.
Could be a resoldered CPU (have you checked?), as 266 --> 400Mhz overclock is unlikely.
Tattle Tech- great name. I'll find Norton and those other system snoopers and see what the verdict is.
Byrd, not yet. I have had too many other demands on my time so far this summer. I have only removed the cover plate and found the part number. From the top there isn't any evidence of re-soldering. I don't have any experience with soldering but I would imagine that if the chip was replaced with a 400MHz version, the top wouldn't look so pristine?
It does feel snappy, snappier than my beige G3 (266) before the G4 upgrade.
Byrd, not yet. I have had too many other demands on my time so far this summer. I have only removed the cover plate and found the part number. From the top there isn't any evidence of re-soldering. I don't have any experience with soldering but I would imagine that if the chip was replaced with a 400MHz version, the top wouldn't look so pristine?
It does feel snappy, snappier than my beige G3 (266) before the G4 upgrade.
I still have not taken the processor out (waiting for a few parts to do an upgrade) but I did load TechTool Deluxe. Its impression of the machine?
400MHz PPC 750 and....100MHz FSB.
It just gets stranger and stranger. It is an eBay machine so who knows what its previous life was like. I suppose it could have a Pismo board in it. I will have to check the machine ID next time I have it out.
I would like to put a Travelstar drive in. Has anyone here actually had the magnet/sleep issue? Unfortunately, at the moment it will bomb on startup every now and then. The fan also comes on when I plug it into AC (internal batteries are flat). Is that typical? I reset the PMU but I haven't noticed anything different.
400MHz PPC 750 and....100MHz FSB.
It just gets stranger and stranger. It is an eBay machine so who knows what its previous life was like. I suppose it could have a Pismo board in it. I will have to check the machine ID next time I have it out.
I would like to put a Travelstar drive in. Has anyone here actually had the magnet/sleep issue? Unfortunately, at the moment it will bomb on startup every now and then. The fan also comes on when I plug it into AC (internal batteries are flat). Is that typical? I reset the PMU but I haven't noticed anything different.