Thread

Capacitor Replacement Thread . . .

Capacitor Replacement Thread . . . 68k 71 posts Nov 8, 2012 — May 8, 2013

#31 Tue, 4 Dec 2012 - 05:11

+1 to what bbraun said. jt, maybe just have a thread you own where the first post is a wiki, but you maintain. People can add info at the bottom and then you approve what goes into the first post.

Here are parts I ordered at Jameco.com. I think the parts are even less expensive now.

Code:

                                                                          SCHED
  Item                                             Unit       Line       SHIP
 Number  Item Description                 Qty      Price      Price      DATE

  545131 @CAP,TANT,CHIP,3528,1UF,10%,        1       .3200        .32  07/06/07
  545271 @CAP,TANT,CHIP,6032,47UF,           4       .6900       2.76  07/06/07
  545393 @CAP,TANT,CHIP,7343,47UF,           8       .6500       5.20  07/06/07

#32 Tue, 4 Dec 2012 - 05:35

Well, since I don' no' nuthin' 'bout da Wikification process as yet, I think we'll keep this right here in H&D where I'm in my comfort zone. I'm not opposed to having the machine specific threads in the applicable forums, that's where they've always been since I've been here.

This thread is a clearinghouse/rally point.

Thanks for that listing,tt, Let's keep 'em coming in gang. When it looks like an article is shaping up for the WiKi, someone else can do that part too, I'm jus' a clueless ringleader here, so be patient with my shortcomings and everyone be patient with each other as we develop this process.

Think of this as the Z-80 approach to gathering info. When we've got this up and running, then it'll be time move it to a fancy new chip/array/gizmothingamajigger.

In the meantime, posts saying we should go from ZERO to perfect in a single step are not very helpful at all.

Pitch in and DO Something! I can't really help, I'm doing this so other folks in my boat can learn what to do too!

jt

#33 Tue, 4 Dec 2012 - 05:52

Wiki articles don't pop up finished unless a single individual goes through a lot of individual effort to do just one.

Somehow I hear my name be called for a "first run" or "template" or "model". Of course knowing my record the Rev. A will be garbage (i.e. first revision of the SE/30 cap image, first edition of Classic Mac Networking) and the Rev. B will be way better...

Before we get all carried away and start wallowing in the sand pit, have we examined what's already been established? Maybe all we might have to do is reformat it, add some tips and maybe a video.

I don't have any more boards to recap but that could change if someone sends one my way or something...err..Well the 2300c spare display is de-tanked, but...let's not worry about that now. I'd need a whole start->finish thing anyways. That and my video capture method consists of a P&S camera, so yeah...

#34 Tue, 4 Dec 2012 - 06:44

oh man videos would be great as well! Mcdermd has some, but i am not sure if he is ready to go public

#35 Tue, 4 Dec 2012 - 07:24

Gentleman, Trag should post his email address, so the many people that see this as a guest can contact him direct for a High-end Quality Cap kit.

I am probably going to start selling DIY kits, but with OEM STOCK parts in the kits for all the common boards,

Included will be a color laser legal print out of the main board, with my main board image.

I have to wait to get my paycheck, and to fix all these boards from macdrone first though.

going to use all my nifty mouser links and go to town. Get some usps padded envelopes.

I'd be more then happy to help you my way, World.

I will sell 2 cap packages, I'll call them:

- Package 1- "The Bone Stock Fix" - Alum Can Caps

- Package 2- "I am a cheap ass Fix" - All Radials - Aka "Christmas Trees"

(My prices will be much less then anyone else's package kits)

Both packages will include basic to minimal customer service

iamcapsmack@gmail.com

#36 Tue, 4 Dec 2012 - 08:15

The ORIGINAL reference :b&w: :

Source: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/se30repair.html

#37 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 04:54

Sent a PM to the appropriate personnel for acquisition of capacitors, as I've recently been informed that a recap might be called for on my Classic II. I'll be blunt: I've no soldering skills whatsoever, and my last attempt at what should have been an elementary procedure turned out to be utterly disastrous. I'm as likely to irreversibly FUBAR my motherboard as successfully recap it. For all I know, that scenario fits most here, though I rather doubt it.

So... what's the bottom line up front? I'd like to find out if anyone here would like the challenge of recapping my motherboard. If you're interested, please PM me.

Thanks!

#38 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 05:02

What Main Board do you have sir?

#39 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 05:12

It's a Macintosh Classic II. Other than that, I don't know how to describe the board. Here is a pic:

#40 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 05:21

Well I can cap that for you, pm me if interested. You could send that board along with the caps you get.

also may i have permission to re-use your picture there, your Classic II mainboard is the Revision 2, version more caps.

#41 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 05:34

Revision 2, eh? Learn something new every day. Know my particular Mac was manufactured in '93.

You can certainly use the pic.

#42 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 06:01

Well that is what i'm calling it: Rev 2,

It has more caps and different ROM's then my picture used in this Classic II thread:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19785

could you look and try to let me know what the value of these caps are?

are they 10uf?

Screen shot 2012-12-06 at 12.57.44 AM.png

Also does your Classic II have Speaker Holes in the left hand side of the case?

You may have the classic II version that has the " enhanced sound "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Classic_II

"There were two Classic II cases. Later models came with a speaker grille on the left side for enhanced sound"

#43 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 14:04

It does have speaker holes. I'll have to break out a magnifying glass to see what those caps show.

#44 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 15:30

Thanks man i'd bet money they are 10uf, however I want to make sure.

#45 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 16:17

Let's try to keep the individual model variation discussions in the model specific threads, guys. [

] ]'>

If anyone has links to other discussions of a particular model, please post them here so I can do the cross-linkage thing between the IP and related threads.

#46 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 17:40

jt, the second SE/30 thread link still has incorrect information in the first post. It lists radial leads instead of axial leads. The 1uf cap may also be the wrong size. I would be very annoyed to order those parts and have them being the wrong parts. Please correct or put a disclaimer that the information is not vetted and may be incorrect. It also has electrolytic components that are debatable to recommend as a replacement without more data. It is obvious uniserver is not careful in the information he posts... yes everyone makes mistakes, but it happens very often with the posts I have seen. This issue may apply to the other links... I am not complaining, just trying to help others not waste their time and money dealing with this info that is being spread all over the forums and in addition is being endorsed by a forum moderator.

#47 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 18:09

I've already been given a ToDo list for some corrections by uniserver. Nice proofreading, let me know if I've fixed the problems later today after I've done so.

BTW, replying with alternate partslist suggestions to his threads would be very helpful, especially in the case of DigiKey here and Local Suppliers overseas.

This is EXACTLY the kind of cooperative effort I'm trying to establish in this thread/project.

I should add a bit that I'm not endorsing any particular approach to the top of the thread. done! I've posted a MINIMUM of a Tantalum Cap partslist and, AFAICT, uniserver is attempting to comply. Remember, Trag's Tantalum Cap info is the very top link in this project, aside from the example cited for a previously existing thread.

uniserver has made an interesting argument for the use of electrolytics in order to preserve authenticity, while at the same time, we've got a good discussion going about the merits of several alternative Capacitor Technologies.

Personally, I'm leaning toward the CutRemovalMethod, but I'll be testing uniserver's TwistRemovalMethod as well before attempting my very first recapping. Luckily I have several DuoTankFarms on DOA MoBos for testing. I'm carefully watching the CapTech discussion and I'd like to see a lot more of it.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Let's keep the dialog open. Who knows what mix of technologies and methodologies will come out of this project? :?:

Meanwhile, digging up all the pertinent links has yet to be done.

I've got my hands full just trying to run herd on this clearinghouse thread with cross-linking, updates and error correction. :

#48 Fri, 7 Dec 2012 - 06:11

Hi,

I have an almost dead SE/30 Power Supply. I was thinking of recapping it, since it really smells badly of capacitor gunk (kind of a fishy-chemicaly smell), and I just got the idea of noting the capacitors I replace and listing them here, perhaps with pictures of the process.

Sound good?

c

#49 Fri, 7 Dec 2012 - 06:35

Yep!

< hopes for more people to contribute info NOT related to SE/30s >

n.b. corrections list will have to wait until tomorrow, sleepy time & I've been wearing the anti-carpal tunnel wrist brace of effectiveness half the day.

#50 Fri, 7 Dec 2012 - 07:08

hey tt, relax.

Tantalums are not the oem replacement sized cap's,

Yet you promote them like they are god, Then stick me with a hot poker every chance you get.

Why don't you stop flapping your big lips and contribute, too many chiefs, focus your thoughts on motivating your self, do something useful. Please!

Put the hot poke down! Take a deep breath and calm the hell down.

if you got a issue with a link then PLEASE post the correct one, jt will make the changes.

I can't do all this my self anyways.

#51 Fri, 7 Dec 2012 - 07:10

Guys/gals, sorry if my previous post was unpleasant. My main point is to try to maintain reliable info in the forums in general. If you have suggestions to parts, indicate whether or not you actually installed them to ensure they are of sufficient quality and fit. If you have not used them, say they are recommendations that are untested. Posting in multiple places the same incorrect information will cause confusion and is harder to fix.

I have an almost dead SE/30 Power Supply. I was thinking of recapping it, since it really smells badly of capacitor gunk (kind of a fishy-chemicaly smell), and I just got the idea of noting the capacitors I replace and listing them here, perhaps with pictures of the process....Sound good?

Sounds great! There is not too much info in this area. PSU replacement with modern alternatives would also be interesting.

< hopes for more people to contribute info NOT related to SE/30s >

:lol:

#52 Fri, 7 Dec 2012 - 22:40

The ability to edit a collaborative document rather to trawl through 75 posts found all over the place, and get that document right through progressive refinement, is why the wiki would be good for this. If there are two Classic II logic boards with different capacitors, and only one is shown in the wiki, then stick the other one in the same wiki document and make it right. You can't even do that on the regular forum threads as the one who posted if you come back later.

Trash says this is unfamiliar ground. May I suggest a trial run of documenting capacitor replacement for just one machine? See how or if it works (it should work if people use it, since this is what wikis are for).

Doing this for a series of machines at a time, like the Compacts, might breathe a little more life into the wiki as well, which would be good because at the moment it is pretty well neglected. We rely too much on the fora on this forum.

My $.02.

#53 Sat, 8 Dec 2012 - 05:21

^^ yeap.

The structure of the wiki is already in place.

I think I could probably work something out, but I have a more pressing matter at the moment.

< hopes for more people to contribute info NOT related to SE/30s >

The only thing I can contribute in that department is for the 2300c motherboard and display. My notes are a bit of a mess but I can probably cook something up in a couple of hours in AppleWorks 6. I have two Duo 230 motherboards here so I can list those out as well, if need be.

#54 Sat, 8 Dec 2012 - 07:03

I have plenty of machines to look at capacitor values, locations and physical sizes with. Is there a wiki template page for caps? How would I edit or create one?

If I have links and privileges, I could probably get one or two a week in there pretty easily.

#55 Sat, 8 Dec 2012 - 08:29

Hi,

I could possibly contribute a set of photos taken of my Mac IIcx's logic board before and after capacitor replacement.

It's not quite SE/30 related... although wasn't the SE/30's basic architecture based on the Mac IIx or IIcx or something?

Also, I think incorporating all this into a wiki would be fantastic! I looked at the existing capacitor info page, and while it seems adequate for many purposes, it doesn't include a lot of information that should be there, like different methods of cap removal, part numbers for replacement caps, etc.. Also, expanding beyond just logic boards to include power supplies (including compact Mac analog boards, especially the Classic/Classic II), peripherals such as keyboards (some of which do have capacitors in them, actually), and so on would be superb.

Just my $20 (adjusted for inflation, because 2¢ isn't worth what it used to be*).

c

*This is referring to real currency, of course.

#56 Sat, 8 Dec 2012 - 09:05

My idea for a template would be a photo of the logic board with locations and values of the capacitors noted - like Uniserver has done - along with a chart of part numbers for aluminum electrolytic, tantalum and aluminum organic polymer capacitors for some major suppliers like a digikey and mouser. Each model of Macintosh covered could have its own, uniform wiki entry.

#57 Sun, 9 Dec 2012 - 00:56

The problem with sorting and locating part numbers is that can take awhile, especially when you start stacking up the candidates for the capacitor wars. Off the top of my head I know of mylar, electrolytic, air, oil, ceramic, tantalum, and polymer-type capacitors. Each has its own unique attributes and properties* although I suspect that most of the capacitors used in the discussion-era Macs are just general purpose capacitors, at least mainly for the motherboard. Obviously you most likely won't find air or oil based capacitors in the sizes we're looking for but...yeah.

And what if the part numbers change? Who is going to maintain that list? It's a lot easier to just say "35v 220µF" and suggest a list of commonly available retailers aka Mouser, Jameco, Digikey (Digikey isn't really meant for the common hobbyist...) or maybe they might have them at a local electronics depot and no I don't mean That Place That Starts with a Five Letter Word Beginning with an R.

It may be also a worthy note to mention suitable brands -- I've heard of rampant copying and shoddy cloning which can be a problem in your application. (I heard of a story concerning some certain industrial espionage featuring Japan and some other country somewhere in Asia involving stealing the formula for the electrolyte, and well it was missing a key ingredient meaning that Mr. Cloner pushed out a LOT of crappy caps out on the market. Shoulda just went with Japanese caps...but try telling that to the bean counters.)

*: Caps are a lot like transistors. There are many types of transistors: power (usually TO-220 package), Darlington (similar, also in TO-92), high-freq (up in the MHz range) switching, high voltage (eg 100v out of a TO-92), high current (eg 1.5A out of a TO-92), low noise (audio, radio, and most likely scientific/lab/measuring equipment) and then your basic general purpose transistor which is usually a TO-92 package with typical 5v switching base, 3 or 400mA max current, 30-40V range tops.

#58 Sun, 9 Dec 2012 - 03:01

And what if the part numbers change? Who is going to maintain that list? It's a lot easier to just say "35v 220µF" and suggest a list of commonly available retailers aka Mouser, Jameco, Digikey

I was thinking there could be a section that explains what attributes to look for when selecting parts to ensure you are ordering the right components. Listing part numbers from reputable manufacturers instead of links to parts in online catalogs may also be easier to maintain. Attaching the data sheets may also help if parts become obsolete to find their current equivalents.

#59 Sun, 9 Dec 2012 - 03:51

The biggest problem I see in this thread is that we've got two kinds of folks involved.

The technically competent types who can get enough info from that VERY SPARSE un-commented, unexplained data set on the WiKi . . . fine, you're good as is . . .

. . . and then there are folks like myself, still dreading their first recap and not equipped to do the same.

There aren't many indignities I'm not up for inflicting upon a computer, that much is plain. However, borking a MoBo because I'm not smart enough to say "I don't know how and I need some help here gang" just ain't gonna happen!

A lot of folks are in the same boat I am and a LOT of new recruits are going to need help in the future. It's gonna happen in the living breathing threads one way or another, that's the place we help each other on almost any problem we face and recapping is no different, we need feedback and support from our comrades.

Having a running dialog in the threads uniserver has posted and similar threads to be posted by others about each and every model IS GOING TO HAPPEN! PERIOD!!!!!!!

Around these here parts, long before WiKization of the web, this is where we rolled up our sleeves, figured things out, helped and supported each other from day 0.

Around here the only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked.

Stop complaining about how this should be done and just HELP!!!!!

"Thus endeth the lesson." S.C. the untouchables

#60 Sun, 9 Dec 2012 - 16:15

Forgive me if I've missed a post with this info elsewhere, but as a neophyte, not only am I not familiar with the part names etc., but I would also like to see information about what tools and supplies are needed. I know soldering irons are required, but which ones. Suggestions of recommended tools are a need for beginners.