Thread

SE/30 Capacitor Trouble

SE/30 Capacitor Trouble Troubleshooting 47 posts Dec 1, 2012 — Apr 22, 2013

#1 Sat, 1 Dec 2012 - 18:08

It appears that the caps in my Mac SE/30 have finally died. There were signs of trouble for awhile now such as no sound through the internal speaker, but when I went to turn it on today I was greeted with a screen that showed garbage every so many columns on the screen. The Mac itself is running fine (System 6.0.8 loaded right up), but obviously it needs help.

Is there anyone out there that can do a capacitor replacement for me? Name your price or I can trade some items for your time. The SE/30 is in amazing shape, I'd hate to see it rendered useless.

#2 Sat, 1 Dec 2012 - 21:05

Where are you located?

#3 Sat, 1 Dec 2012 - 22:59

SE Michigan.

#4 Sat, 1 Dec 2012 - 23:44

I'm in southfield, You could bring it over one day, I can show ya how to re-cap it.

also aftermac is in romulus, we've wanted to have a cap party for months now... just so busy with the babies.

#5 Sat, 1 Dec 2012 - 23:53

Along with my load you'll be capping into the new year lol.

#6 Sat, 1 Dec 2012 - 23:56

yours will be one sunday about 8 hours, for yours I want to get the aluminum can kind... so they look stock!

#7 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 00:58

Wow, I'm in no rush, stock is cool just looking to make the fleet working. By the way you are awesome. I kept a Mac II board since there was so much room to work on the board figured I would try my luck. It turns on, no video from card, no chime, and will not turn off so well see after I get a newer iron and caps if I can get it done. All that open space is much less intimidating. That classic board is so small my old iron is as big as the capacitor lol.

#8 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 01:15

I'm in southfield, You could bring it over one day, I can show ya how to re-cap it.
also aftermac is in romulus, we've wanted to have a cap party for months now... just so busy with the babies.

I totally forgot about Jason (Aftermac). I figured he was too busy with the kids and all. We should have a Mac party sometime in here.

I think I'll send it to Phreakout for him to have a look at since he has the time to do it now. I don't want to wait since if a cap has blown it's probably leaking all kinds of wonderful stuff over my motherboard.

#9 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 03:00

Hey, is it too late to join the SE Michigan Logic Board Restoration League? ;D

I'm in Royal Oak - and discovering an alarming number of leaky capacitors in my Macs.

And with nearly zero soldering experience, I could use some help...

#10 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 03:08

its never too late

i would like to nominate aftermac's basement, plus that is where his apple shrine is :-D

#11 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 15:25

yours will be one sunday about 8 hours, for yours I want to get the aluminum can kind... so they look stock!

That's not a good idea. They will eventually leak again, giving even more problems in the future. By future I mean many years of course, but these are getting rarer and rarer thinking how easily the mobos break because of leakage...

Use tantalum capacitors, please..

They can leak too I think, but I've never seen any leaking tantalums. Not to mention that they last extremely long.

#12 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 16:45

Well my SE/30 is going off to Phreakout, but my beige G3 tower could use some work. It's ok, but the fan makes a horrible screeching sound sometimes and I'm sure it could use some other maintenance so I'm down for a Mac party sometime in here.

#13 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 17:56

I'm thinking of going with aluminum organic polymers in the future. They're twice the price but have the stock look and my understanding is that they won't leak like an electrolytic will.

#14 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 18:30

The ones i am putting on will last as long as the old ones, maybe longer,cap technology is better now adays!

I am going for "stock look " for macdrone, they never came with tantalum caps,

If i was recapping a Q700 board that originally came with those caps then that is what i would use.

Mcdermd has the right idea, it has to look the way it was from factory originally, That is my goal.

Just like some people here say not to twist the caps off, I twist every one off, every time. it works great,

also i leave the snapped off old leads on the pad, no reason to remove them.

- Snap off

- Remove all debris

- Clean leaky goop with a damp paper towel

- buff off corrosion if there is any, or skip this step

- flux

- Swiftly heat up , apply fresh solder

- reflux

- set cap, and heat up each side, if you do it quick enough with the alum can kind it will sit nice and flat just like stock.

if you are not quick it will be crooked, but don't be anal, minimize how much heat you are putting into the pads!

if the cap is sitting cocked, but you can see the solder has flowed and properly, and connected the lead to the pad, just leave it.

- I try to massively limit putting heat on the pad !

The more heat you put into the pad, the more likely it will lift.

Vary rarely do i lift a pad. But some days are bad days,

Also don't be a worry ward, just get in there an replace the caps.

some of you will fail, and even if you do there are pros out there like technight and phreakout that have blue prints

and they can use wirewrap and follow traces, if needed!

I received a IIci from captainbob , He gave it to me for free, lots of pads were ripped clean off. Someone had F^%$#^ this thing all up!

i did some very ugly re-work to make the connections still happen, I had to be vary patient! Was able to make all the connections, it works great now.

#15 Sun, 2 Dec 2012 - 21:41

I'm thinking of going with aluminum organic polymers in the future. They're twice the price but have the stock look and my understanding is that they won't leak like an electrolytic will.

Yeah, they do not have a fluid inside of them. They seem to get a good recommendation as a high reliability tantalum alternative from NASA:

A destructive test with massive current over stress to fail the polymer aluminum capacitors reveals that all polymer aluminum capacitors failed in a benign mode without ignition, combustion, or any other catastrophic failures.

Source: http://nepp.nasa.gov/files/20389/09_005_GSFC_Williams_Liu%20APC%20Final%20Report.pdf

#16 Wed, 5 Dec 2012 - 00:02

Tantalum, ceramic, and polymer capacitors are all dry types and any one of these will be vastly superior to the electrolytics.

I'm not actually sure why surface mount electrolytics are so bad. Through-hole types tend to be a little larger but even the smallest types have better specs than the SMT ones.

#17 Wed, 5 Dec 2012 - 03:55

My SE/30 has no sound, kind of sad counting the days till checkers. Does anyone has a fair price for replacing them with the better caps?

#18 Wed, 5 Dec 2012 - 04:17

FS: Tantalum Rework Capacitors for Those Old Boards, $10/set

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16626&start=0

#19 Wed, 5 Dec 2012 - 07:05

Until now I hadn't really given much thought to Conductive Polymer Caps in my SE/30 logic board recappings mainly because SMD tantalums look great and will last for decades (assuming reasonable temperature, humidity, and no voltage spikes). But this thread does make a good point about Aluminum Conductive Polymer Caps offering a "stock" look, especially for those among us who keep their SE/30's open enough to care about such things or who intend to sell boards and expect a higher selling price as the result of a "stock look." Here's a set of excellent information that can help you decide if Aluminum Conductive Polymer Caps fit the bill for you:

General Overview of Polymer Capacitors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor

An excellent set of info on polymer caps, especially when replacing "wet" electrolytics with them:

http://www.capacitorlab.com/capacitor-types-polymer/

Life Expectancy vs. Temp. & Humidity (see pg. 5):

http://www.cde.com/catalogs/SPAAppGuide.pdf

Various capacitor technologies compared:

http://www.bundertech.net/cap.php

Nichicon Conductive Polymer "Long Life Assurance" Aluminum SMD caps:

http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-p_cs.pdf

#20 Wed, 5 Dec 2012 - 08:55

Excellent information, JDW. Definitely helps put the replacement decision in perspective.

#21 Wed, 5 Dec 2012 - 20:09

I would have to find someone to ship the board to and pay for labor..I don't trust my soldering skills.

#22 Wed, 5 Dec 2012 - 23:04

It's definitely something that takes practice. Quality tools help too.

#23 Thu, 6 Dec 2012 - 00:00

well i would do it for you sir, in a few days i will have plenty of caps to make it stock with alum can caps.

if you want the other ones you can buy then with the links and send them with the board...

(470uf $1.03 ea) http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/TVX1C471MAD1LS/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22cHXfaMHMarCo7Vys6jlzI8%3d

(220uf 71 Cents ea) http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/TVX1E221MAD/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22SmzhV1iNnMtBDYPX%2fZfeKg%3d

Tantalum Capacitors -(Kemet)

(47uf 43 Cents ea) http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/T491C476K016AT/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22WQok64Lf3O1OdZc8yJGuPA%3d

(1uf 14 Cents ea) http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/T491A105K035AT/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuEN2agSAc2plg9mRgM350BQreS0dFWegk%3d

SE/30 graphic, cap placement

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19773&start=0&hilit=macintosh+se

#24 Thu, 20 Dec 2012 - 02:13

I'm going to wait until it doesn't boot or some other weird thing happens before it gets re-capped. Get as many miles as I can since I don't use many sound intensive apps on it. Whichever caps are the least hassle to put on I would be fine with though. Looking at other posts lately, it's just a matter of time..

#25 Thu, 20 Dec 2012 - 06:17

Unfortunately, if you wait too long, it can do damage to the logic board itself. Damage like eat right through traces. That's when bad turns to really bad.

#26 Mon, 4 Mar 2013 - 14:06

Does anyone know what happened to phreakout? He was fixing my SE/30 but I haven't heard from him in months and he hasn't been on since Jan 12th. I hope he's ok...

#27 Sat, 9 Mar 2013 - 23:55

Hi, This is my first post to this forum, though about 10 years ago I think this was an email list (?) A few years ago I got my SE/30 out of storage and it worked for about a year or so, and now I think I'm having some cap problems. A few times I powered it up and had the samasimac (I'm sure I spelled that wrong), then I took the mobo out and reseated all the RAM, and it booted fine for a few times and then it would boot and freeze about 15 minutes later.

So I also am looking for someone to give some money to. My soldering skills are great as long as we're talking about high voltage feeder cables in a switchyard. For PCBs, not so much. I'm in NW Indiana, so SE Michigan sounds like a fine place to send this to if any of you guys are still doing this type of stuff. If you're interested, I can pay with cash, or I have a few goodies left that I would be willing to trade for services (Last I recall, a complete IIci and a IIvx, as well as quite a few misc. parts)

Thanks in advance,

J White

#28 Sun, 10 Mar 2013 - 02:01

yeah buddy, with that thinking, when the board is done, it will be done.

Plus, the longer you wait the harder it would make your job or my job to re-cap it for you.

It's eating away as we are sitting here speaking about it.

once you lose sound, the next thing is scsi and then after that its borns filters for the floppy.

most of the time when the scsi and the borns filters go. those ic's are done.

The first thing to go is the internal speaker amplifier, because people say just what you are saying,

Ah, I have no sound but it works fine, use it till stops.

I mean if its a beater, and you don't care, then its no big deal... but have you seen what SE/30's are going for on epay right now?

100-200-300+ if i were you i would jump on it, just due to the fact people want these things. For some reason, even people

that know almost nothing about vintage macs, know the SE/30 and decide they want one.

#29 Sun, 10 Mar 2013 - 02:04

Does anyone know what happened to phreakout? He was fixing my SE/30 but I haven't heard from him in months and he hasn't been on since Jan 12th. I hope he's ok...

If you have any more, I get them back to you asap if ya go through me.

#30 Sun, 10 Mar 2013 - 03:16

I mean if its a beater, and you don't care, then its no big deal... but have you seen what SE/30's are going for on epay right now?100-200-300+ if i were you i would jump on it, just due to the fact people want these things. For some reason, even people

that know almost nothing about vintage macs, know the SE/30 and decide they want one.

If it helps any, I have a lead on an SE/30 (likely inoperable due to bad capacitors) from the Tulsa, OK Craigslist for $30 plus shipping (which is likely another $30 or so), so these Macs can still be had for relatively cheap, if you're in the right place at the right time

.
Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with uniserver; eBay is much too expensive for these kinds of things because some people, who are always looking for quick money, see it and think, "Wow, I can sell this on eBay and make a nice profit!" What's so bad is that these people don't really care what they're selling. In fact, a good portion of the time, they don't really know what it is! However, you have people on the opposite end of this spectrum who sells the stuff for next to nothing because they think it's useless junk (to them) that someone more knowledgeable may want to tinker with.

I don't want to get political (and risk having this thread locked), so I'll stop here.

c