Thread
Finally after 7 years I have an Original Macintosh, mostly:)
This whole project started about a year ago.
I bought this Plus on ebay. Realized it was an upgraded original 128k.
So my quest has been to down grade it.
I needed an original Macintosh Main-board,
I needed a Original MACINTOSH boot(rear).
I needed a 400k floppy drive
The Main board:
Last year Mcdermd told me that he had a original 128k board laying around. But he cautioned me, it had been upgraded to a 512k, and the rom's were missing.
So he installed the original amount of ram, and flashed me up some Rom's,
Also he found me a boot, but its missing the rear decals, that is ok ill take it.
Anyways he sent those to me.
So I have this thing all together.
let me say, I thought the 800k floppy drive was going to work. Nope. It doesn't.
Good news is though, I was lucky enough to win a 400k external a few months back.
So booting from the external 400k, it came right to the desktop.
Finally!
I still need to acquire a 400k drive.
I still need to acquire a proper 512k/128k tin for the mainboard
I still need to acquire a Macintosh badge with Info sticker as well.
Other then that this thing is rockin!
Solid A/B
Clean CRT, NIce and bright.
It's taken a few bucks and alot of watin.
Here are some other pics.
I bought this Plus on ebay. Realized it was an upgraded original 128k.
So my quest has been to down grade it.
I needed an original Macintosh Main-board,
I needed a Original MACINTOSH boot(rear).
I needed a 400k floppy drive
The Main board:
Last year Mcdermd told me that he had a original 128k board laying around. But he cautioned me, it had been upgraded to a 512k, and the rom's were missing.
So he installed the original amount of ram, and flashed me up some Rom's,
Also he found me a boot, but its missing the rear decals, that is ok ill take it.
Anyways he sent those to me.
So I have this thing all together.
let me say, I thought the 800k floppy drive was going to work. Nope. It doesn't.
Good news is though, I was lucky enough to win a 400k external a few months back.
So booting from the external 400k, it came right to the desktop.
Finally!
I still need to acquire a 400k drive.
I still need to acquire a proper 512k/128k tin for the mainboard
I still need to acquire a Macintosh badge with Info sticker as well.
Other then that this thing is rockin!
Solid A/B
Clean CRT, NIce and bright.
It's taken a few bucks and alot of watin.
Here are some other pics.
Nice! If I ever get my 128k board working, this is what I would be shooting for. Good to see it has been done before.
If you can find another external 400k drive, you should be able to dismantle it for the FDD and stick that in your 128k. That's what I did with the 512kE (then again, I'm talking about 800k drives).
If you can find another external 400k drive, you should be able to dismantle it for the FDD and stick that in your 128k. That's what I did with the 512kE (then again, I'm talking about 800k drives).
Um I have a rear 128 she'll and the tin you need. It's big but light.
ok mcdermd just mentioned the Floppy cables can be different form 400k to 800k
maybe that is my issue why the 800k floppy drive is not working with the 128k rom's
( it works fine when i pop plus roms on there )
but who needs a 128ke? lol
Wow ok, macdrone maybe we can do some more horse trading…
maybe that is my issue why the 800k floppy drive is not working with the 128k rom's
( it works fine when i pop plus roms on there )
but who needs a 128ke? lolWow ok, macdrone maybe we can do some more horse trading…
ok having internal floppy drive issues.
I changed the filter. I installed a 400k floppy
I tried different rom's (plus ones).
I am definitely having floppy drive issues.
one funny thing... the external always works fine. no matter what i can always boot from the external.
so my guess is IWM, or some resistor or cap or diode is screwing with me here.
when i first hooked up the 400k drive to the internal port flipped it on.. it booted ... tried it again and no dice.
the funny thing with the external port i tried 400k / 800k / even super drive external and it still boots 400k disk with out issue to the desktop.
On a rare occurrence it seems internal drive will maybe boot once.. but mainly it makes some funny groaning jittery type noise and just spits the disk out...
same with the 400k / 800k drive.
i suppose i can just always use the external drive... its just that is slightly annoying to me.
I changed the filter. I installed a 400k floppy
I tried different rom's (plus ones).
I am definitely having floppy drive issues.
one funny thing... the external always works fine. no matter what i can always boot from the external.
so my guess is IWM, or some resistor or cap or diode is screwing with me here.
when i first hooked up the 400k drive to the internal port flipped it on.. it booted ... tried it again and no dice.
the funny thing with the external port i tried 400k / 800k / even super drive external and it still boots 400k disk with out issue to the desktop.
On a rare occurrence it seems internal drive will maybe boot once.. but mainly it makes some funny groaning jittery type noise and just spits the disk out...
same with the 400k / 800k drive.
i suppose i can just always use the external drive... its just that is slightly annoying to me.
I'm thinking whatever is killing our boot for me and the other person is the same reason your having floppy issues. Unless your using the wrong cable. I forgot which color stripe for which drive at the moment but it makes a difference.
I put it out here that it was working fine in a 400K drive chassis after I had finished work on it. FWIW, I would still be looking at your floppy hardware.
lol yes i know it was working fine before you sent it out.
However, Now its only working fine through the external floppy port.
Please don't feel responsible.
This is old as hell. - you are the man. / It turned out fantastic
I am just trying to get to the bottom of it.
its really kind of a stupid little issue that is getting on my nerves
Otherwise it works 100%
I'v tried 3 different cables.
3 different tested working floppy drives. 400/800/Superdrive
I install'd the plus board back into it… and yes the internal floppy works.
I'm done with it for now, I have no more time allocated for this.
Last night I was suppost to:
Re-cap 2 LC PSU's
Partition/format/install mac os on 5 hard drives, and mount them in 5 machines.
Fix habib's gameboy color.
Prepare a cap kit
All i really ended up doing last night is burning a butt load of time on this 128k for pretty much no result.
Time lost + no positive result really urks me these days… maybe its a sign of my old age. ?>
However, Now its only working fine through the external floppy port.
Please don't feel responsible.
This is old as hell. - you are the man. / It turned out fantastic
I am just trying to get to the bottom of it.
its really kind of a stupid little issue that is getting on my nerves
Otherwise it works 100%
I'v tried 3 different cables.
3 different tested working floppy drives. 400/800/Superdrive
I install'd the plus board back into it… and yes the internal floppy works.
I'm done with it for now, I have no more time allocated for this.
Last night I was suppost to:
Re-cap 2 LC PSU's
Partition/format/install mac os on 5 hard drives, and mount them in 5 machines.
Fix habib's gameboy color.
Prepare a cap kit
All i really ended up doing last night is burning a butt load of time on this 128k for pretty much no result.
Time lost + no positive result really urks me these days… maybe its a sign of my old age. ?>
That's illegal. You can't copy a ROM for someone else if they don't have it themselves.
Oh, man. You caught me OnlyOneMac. I'm a bad boy. I'm filled with guilt about replacing broken parts with less-expensive counterparts.
Your splitting hairs... its the rom the board would have came with originally. If anything its more legal that it was 
I just have to send mcd some postage $$ for the originals.
mcdermd you are a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad boy.
I can't imagine repairing a 29 year old Macintosh 128 by making new roms would bother anyone at Apple since the hardware is no longer supported and the software to run on it is free if you can find it on Apples web site. Considering the last rom flashing post was for the prototype twiggy Mac, and an Ex Apple engineer helped with that I just see it as a mute point.
I know your right but I think even Steve Jobs would be going "Hell Ya!"
I mean he kept his Apple II for the rest of his life.
I know your right but I think even Steve Jobs would be going "Hell Ya!"
I mean he kept his Apple II for the rest of his life.
Jobs? Jobs didn't really have any affinity for old things. His attitude was that they were junk compared to the new stuff so why would you want to keep it? One of the first things he did upon returning to Apple was to donate the Apple museum pieces to Stanford.
Ya but he donated them, he did not throw them away. Why so many prototypes around? Maybe he thought they were cool also? Why make them clear? Because he liked them and they were awesome!
The first clear prototypes I know of were for the SE. As I understand, it was clear to check air flow through the case. Jobs was long gone by the time the SE was out. It also had things Jobs hated: a fan and cursor keys.
mcdermd
Ok then how about my Apple proto case? He was there then.
He didn't keep that - you have it.
ROMs are copyrighted, correct? Well, that means it eventually expires. Especially if it was before a certain date where there was a change in the copyright law regarding ROM contents. If Apple failed to register their ROM contents before that date, they're already in the public domain. Even if they did register them, the copyright will still expire at some point (or possibly already has? [if Apple failed to file for the necessary extensions periodically under the law])
I was really surprised when I heard about the copyright law change in the 80's and that ROMs before that date needed to be registered otherwise they were in the public domain. This happened to Roland with the MT-32 ROMs. Turns out they were made before the copyright law and Roland failed to register them. As such, they are now in the public domain. We'd probably be surprised at how many ROMs from the 80's are actually in the public domain because companies failed to register their pre-copyright law ROMs according to the law. I'm sure that is the case for the Twiggy ROMs, they absolutely predate the copyright law, and I doubt Apple ever registered them, so they are in the public domain.
I was really surprised when I heard about the copyright law change in the 80's and that ROMs before that date needed to be registered otherwise they were in the public domain. This happened to Roland with the MT-32 ROMs. Turns out they were made before the copyright law and Roland failed to register them. As such, they are now in the public domain. We'd probably be surprised at how many ROMs from the 80's are actually in the public domain because companies failed to register their pre-copyright law ROMs according to the law. I'm sure that is the case for the Twiggy ROMs, they absolutely predate the copyright law, and I doubt Apple ever registered them, so they are in the public domain.
I had to change the network filter twice, the first time, I must have over heated it with the heat gun removing it from the donor board, or it was just bad.
Not only did the internal floppy not work after the first replacement network filter, but the external was also not working. The second filter, gave the same issue as the original 128k filter. (Bum internal) - fully working external port.
Good news is my issue with the internal floppy port.
- its not the drive
- its not the network filter
- its not the floppy cable
- its not the ROM's
Not only did the internal floppy not work after the first replacement network filter, but the external was also not working. The second filter, gave the same issue as the original 128k filter. (Bum internal) - fully working external port.
Good news is my issue with the internal floppy port.
- its not the drive
- its not the network filter
- its not the floppy cable
- its not the ROM's
With those 4 possibilities ruled out, what else could it be?
i think mcdermd thinks i am nutts.
But i think its either the IWM, Witch i have no idea how the internal and external ports hook up to the IWM,
could be a resistor / cap / diode?
beats me…
the funny thing is with the plus board in, its internal floppy port runs the drive just fine.
So I doubt it could be an issue with the psu.
But i think its either the IWM, Witch i have no idea how the internal and external ports hook up to the IWM,
could be a resistor / cap / diode?
beats me…
the funny thing is with the plus board in, its internal floppy port runs the drive just fine.
So I doubt it could be an issue with the psu.
The only reason I think you're nuts is that I tested it in a 512k chassis with a 400k drive and original cable and it was good to go. I guess it's not entirely inconceivable that something could have gone bad in the mean time. I do know my 400k Macs (128k and 512k) are some of the pickiest I've had in regard to good floppies created with the right version of Disk Copy on System 6 with the right drive and cable blah, blah, blah. They're cranky.
i knew you thought i was nutts
wow looking here looks like i need to change the other filter? this schematic shows 2.\
http://www.kiramek.com/21test95/EarlyMacSchematics.pdf ( special thanks to JDW )
http://www.kiramek.com/21test95/EarlyMacSchematics.pdf ( special thanks to JDW )
looks like it shares with the mouse… Ok then
basically a chain of events that occurred making me think it was something more complex then what it was due to my lack of experience with the 128k 512k plus .... Floppy drives and floppy cables.
One thing I do know after an hour of going back and forth online with MCD at like 2 am EST. I decided to make a cable. What I did was cut a chunk from wire 9 and wire 20.
The other thing i had to do is remove my 800k drive that was in there because something had some how gone terribly wrong with it.
Apparently when you upgraded a 128k or a 512k to a 800k drive back in the day, the kit included a new floppy cable(yellow stripe) as well as all the other stuff, Rom, Drive etc.
If anyone downgrades the floppy drive back to a 400k drive you have to install the original floppy cable(red stripe).
Additionally, in my case, my 128k was upgraded to a plus.
For whatever reasons instead of changing the floppy cable. They just made a change to the floppy drive its self to ignore pin 9 and 20.
ok and all is well as long as you are running a plus main-board with that floppy drive.
if you slap your 128k or 512k board back in there once you have downgraded your plus, and you do not also change the floppy drive back to 400k
( OR ) cut wires 9 and 20. Bad things will happen to the 800k floppy drive, if you run it like that over a short period of time.
As long as you cut wires 9 and 20 of a red striped cable or find a yellow striped floppy cable. The 800k drive in there will still work great as a 400k drive in the 128k or 512k.
**Later 800k floppy drives such as the ones in the SE, would still need pin 9 and 20 cut in the floppy cable in order to use it in a plus.
also good news is i have replaced both network filters.
EDIT:
TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT. IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN AN 800K FLOPPY DRIVE IN A 512K OR 128K, JUST MAKE SURE THE FLOPPY CABLE HAS A YELLOW STRIPE ( NOT RED ) AND YOU CAN USE YOUR 800K FLOPPY DRIVE , WILL WORK AS 400K DIRVE NO PROBLEM. OR IF YOUR CABLE HAS A RED STRIPE, MAKE SURE TO CUT WIRES 9 AND 20, EMULATING A YELLOW STRIPED CABLE.
One thing I do know after an hour of going back and forth online with MCD at like 2 am EST. I decided to make a cable. What I did was cut a chunk from wire 9 and wire 20.
The other thing i had to do is remove my 800k drive that was in there because something had some how gone terribly wrong with it.
Apparently when you upgraded a 128k or a 512k to a 800k drive back in the day, the kit included a new floppy cable(yellow stripe) as well as all the other stuff, Rom, Drive etc.
If anyone downgrades the floppy drive back to a 400k drive you have to install the original floppy cable(red stripe).
Additionally, in my case, my 128k was upgraded to a plus.
For whatever reasons instead of changing the floppy cable. They just made a change to the floppy drive its self to ignore pin 9 and 20.
ok and all is well as long as you are running a plus main-board with that floppy drive.
if you slap your 128k or 512k board back in there once you have downgraded your plus, and you do not also change the floppy drive back to 400k
( OR ) cut wires 9 and 20. Bad things will happen to the 800k floppy drive, if you run it like that over a short period of time.
As long as you cut wires 9 and 20 of a red striped cable or find a yellow striped floppy cable. The 800k drive in there will still work great as a 400k drive in the 128k or 512k.
**Later 800k floppy drives such as the ones in the SE, would still need pin 9 and 20 cut in the floppy cable in order to use it in a plus.
also good news is i have replaced both network filters.
EDIT:
TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT. IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN AN 800K FLOPPY DRIVE IN A 512K OR 128K, JUST MAKE SURE THE FLOPPY CABLE HAS A YELLOW STRIPE ( NOT RED ) AND YOU CAN USE YOUR 800K FLOPPY DRIVE , WILL WORK AS 400K DIRVE NO PROBLEM. OR IF YOUR CABLE HAS A RED STRIPE, MAKE SURE TO CUT WIRES 9 AND 20, EMULATING A YELLOW STRIPED CABLE.
And did it work?