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128k Mac Won't "Shut Down"

128k Mac Won't "Shut Down" Troubleshooting 46 posts Dec 1, 2015 — Dec 28, 2015
That sounds fishy to me as well. The eject command is electrically the same on the 400 and 800k drives, and I likewise know that my 64k ROM 512K will eject the disk before rebooting if booted from an M0106. I can't boot with my particular M0131 because it has the earlier 800k mechanism that triggers the divide-by-zero Sad Mac bug in the 64k ROM. But if you have one with the later 800k mechanism that basically adds "noise" to the TACH line it should behave like an M0106.

Honestly I wonder if something is borked with your disk controller. Can you swap disks at all? (IE, does soft eject EVER work?) Again, correct me if I'm wrong here, but on a Mac you should be able to drag the SYSTEM DISK to trash to eject it and put in a program disk; doing so creates a sort of "phantom" alias to the ejected system disk to basically remind you that the system will ask for it back later. If this wasn't possible a single drive Mac would essentially be useless.

Honestly I wonder if something is borked with your disk controller. Can you swap disks at all? (IE, does soft eject EVER work?) Again, correct me if I'm wrong here, but on a Mac you should be able to drag the SYSTEM DISK to trash to eject it and put in a program disk; doing so creates a sort of "phantom" alias to the ejected system disk to basically remind you that the system will ask for it back later. If this wasn't possible a single drive Mac would essentially be useless.
So I put in the system disk and then tried the "Eject Disk" option under the "file" menu.  The icon of the disk looked like it was ejected (i.e., the shadow-ed outline of a disk) for about 3 seconds but then reloaded without the drive doing anything.  This happens both with the original disk and a copy of the system disk I made.

Yeah, so there's definitely something wrong. I seem to recall from another thread that you have a Plus, do the drives behave properly on that? (If you disconnect any SCSI hard drive a Plus should behave essentially identically to a 128k if you boot it with your System 2.0 floppies, does it eject the disks before rebooting?)

Yeah, so there's definitely something wrong. I seem to recall from another thread that you have a Plus, do the drives behave properly on that? (If you disconnect any SCSI hard drive a Plus should behave essentially identically to a 128k if you boot it with your System 2.0 floppies, does it eject the disks before rebooting?)
That is a great question -- I will test it.  I know that the Plus under System 6.0.8 ejects disks out of the external 800k drives, no problem.  I will report back tomorrow!

Yeah, so there's definitely something wrong. I seem to recall from another thread that you have a Plus, do the drives behave properly on that? (If you disconnect any SCSI hard drive a Plus should behave essentially identically to a 128k if you boot it with your System 2.0 floppies, does it eject the disks before rebooting?)
Ah HA!  I tried booting off the same system disk from the same drive, but attached to my Mac Plus.  It did the same thing -- no ejection of the disk, and auto-restart.  

If I boot the Mac Plus off the HD20 with System 6.0.8, when I shut it down it ejects any disk in the external drive and gives me the "It is now safe to turn off your Macintosh" prompt.

So it must just be an early system/finder thing with external drives...

Interesting. Sounds like some damage specific to that disk or disk/drive combo. Have you tried a different disc?

If you boot that old disk in the Plus' internal drive does it eject the disk before restarting? Again, to be clear, this behavior is by no means normal.

Tried it with two different disks -- a MacPaint copy I made yesterday and a copy of Superpaint.  Both did the same thing as with the original system disk: (1) going command+E or file--> eject made the icon shadow out and the drive made sounds like it was doing something, but no ejection.

Shutting down resulted in a restart with no attempt to eject the disk.

This happens with both versions of the 800k drives.

Uniserver says these original ROMs can't eject 800k disks.  However some of you have said you have been able to eject, no problem.

So while the "auto restart" seems normal based on what I have heard of people using this system/finder configuration, I'm still at a loss for the ejection issue.

Uniserver says these original ROMs can't eject 800k disks.  However some of you have said you have been able to eject, no problem.
I would like to know the basis of this statement. As stated earlier, the reason that (at least some) non-A9M0106 800k drives don't work without the HD-20 init is the TACH/divide-by-zero ROM problem which is completely unrelated to "how an eject happens". I just set up my 512k to make *sure* my memory wasn't faulty and I can confirm that an attached A9M0106 behaves identically to an internal drive. IE, I can boot from it, I can remove it and swap in a different disk using the "Eject" item on the "File" menu (I did mis-remember that you could also drag it to the trash, that's what triggers the "you can't throw the system disk away" message), and it auto-ejects the floppy before rebooting when you request a shutdown. I ran the whole drill on both the internal and external drives and the behavior was 100% identical. For the tests I used two different System 2.0/Finder 4.1 floppies (with "MacPaint" and "MacWrite" on them) and the HD-20 init was definitely *not* loaded.

When you tried your System 2.0 floppies on your Plus' *internal* drive did it also refuse to eject them during shutdown? To be clear, when you ran these tests with the external drives on your Plus were the drives directly attached to the Plus, or were they chained off the HD-20? I don't know why the latter might make a difference but just trying to kill some variables.

I'm going to throw a genuinely stupid idea out there: *if* the eject-before-shutdown doesn't work on the Plus' internal drive either I'm going to have to say I wonder if there might be some sort of virus on these boot floppies that's messing with the system. Viruses were actually a depressingly common problem in the Mac's early days.

When you tried your System 2.0 floppies on your Plus' *internal* drive did it also refuse to eject them during shutdown? To be clear, when you ran these tests with the external drives on your Plus were the drives directly attached to the Plus, or were they chained off the HD-20? I don't know why the latter might make a difference but just trying to kill some variables.
Booting the Mac Plus up with the System 2.0 disk in the internal drive, the Mac Plus ejects it on shut down.  Later this evening I will try the externals plugged directly into the Plus (instead of daisy chained through the HD20)

So did you ever try it on the Plus with the external disks directly connected instead of chained through the HD20?

So did you ever try it on the Plus with the external disks directly connected instead of chained through the HD20?
Yes - One drive it doesn't eject (I think it's clear that drive has a problem with its eject mechanism).  The other one ejects fine.

So, for the sake of closure: I got a repaired 400k internal drive and it ejects on shut down just fine :)

Thanks for the update.

FYI, I think it was System 4.0 that introduced the Shutdown Manager. Anything older just ejects the floppies and reboot.

mp.ls