Thread
Macintosh IIcx PSU Problems
I recently got a Macintosh IIcx with some other stuff which is in need of repair. Today I went to power up the IIcx to see what the deal was...nothing.. not a single click, or so I thought. The noise the PSU was making was drowned out by the click of the power button. I held the power button, tick tock.. tick tock.. tick tock.. I noticed some movement in the PSU, so I took a look at it closer, thinking something was sparking inside. Tick tock.. tick tock.. tick tock, AH HA! I see a relay moving inside, and the PSU fan is running solid, no intermittent movement, hinting the caps may be good, maybe. What is this strange relay movement? Caps? Logic board caps? Shorted connection? What is going on here?!
Its a Trickle Diode issue on the PSU that goes bad on the IIcx/IIci/Q700. I seen google a .pdf to check and fix this:
http://www.shobaffum.com/iici/trickle.pdf
If not, recapping the motherboard works, see:
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/21612-iicx-power-supply-clicks-no-go/
http://www.shobaffum.com/iici/trickle.pdf
If not, recapping the motherboard works, see:
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/21612-iicx-power-supply-clicks-no-go/
Motherboard probably needs a recap. That was the issue with mine. Regardless, if the mobo caps are original they will need replacement by now anyway. So its a good place to start.
Should I be worried about the PSU caps leaking?
Not really. Those caps don't typically leak, they dry out. I ripped my prototype IIcx power supply all apart trying to get it to work! As I said, it turned out to be the mobo. I sent it to uniserver (member here) for a recap. Fired right up. I have about 4 IIcx type power supplies, they are all working.
Not saying they can NOT go bad. Just saying in your case a mobo re-cap will probably fix the issue and its needed anyway.
Not saying they can NOT go bad. Just saying in your case a mobo re-cap will probably fix the issue and its needed anyway.
My question is why to solder the new diode in series with the old diode; couldn't you just replace it?
I've gone ahead and moved this thread into the Mac II sub-forum.
I wonder how he figured out the trickle diode issue. I know I am good, but I dont think I am THAT good. I would have rigged up something before actually figuring that out.
That trickle diode thing was from Apple long ago to known repair shops at the time (late 1980s) as they were getting back too many "defective" IIcx PSUs. They figured it out and then sent the info to "us" techs and we all went along like nothing happened.
I wonder that Apple did with the 4 PSUs from my IIcx? They died from massive power surges that were from electrical fires in my building, several floors below me during the late 80s / early 90s. The PSUs gave themselves up to save the rest of the system.
I wonder that Apple did with the 4 PSUs from my IIcx? They died from massive power surges that were from electrical fires in my building, several floors below me during the late 80s / early 90s. The PSUs gave themselves up to save the rest of the system.
Ah.. ok. I was going to say. 
If you ask me though, that was a pretty cheesey design for a standby regulator though. IMHO. But I guess they were built down to a price point, so it is what it is, that or the technology just wasnt available then like it is now. Nowadays, you can use a simple 8 pin TNY regulator with a small SMPS transformer, and generate 5V or 12V standby voltage all day long.
If you ask me though, that was a pretty cheesey design for a standby regulator though. IMHO. But I guess they were built down to a price point, so it is what it is, that or the technology just wasnt available then like it is now. Nowadays, you can use a simple 8 pin TNY regulator with a small SMPS transformer, and generate 5V or 12V standby voltage all day long.
One of the reasons why I left the (Mac repair) company was because the company owner took a bunch of new jack techs and had them replace the diodes on the PSUs and then sell the repaired PSU as a new one. At $275 for a $2 part and 1 hour of time with a fake "new" label, while claiming to the IIcx (and later ci) owners "It's going to take a week to order the part for you"... - he was making out like a fat rat! In some cases the original PSU was repaired and not replaced and he claimed that it was!
Eventually (many years later that is) his business practices would be caught, and though the company remained in business, he was arrested for unscrupulous and cheating business practices.
Eventually (many years later that is) his business practices would be caught, and though the company remained in business, he was arrested for unscrupulous and cheating business practices.
So I desoldered the diode, and the PDF says to connect it in series to another diode of the same type. Why can't you just replace the diode?
It also says to put in a new capacitor at C34, but it doesn't sound like it is required to do so. Would I be fine by leaving C34 as it is?
It also says to put in a new capacitor at C34, but it doesn't sound like it is required to do so. Would I be fine by leaving C34 as it is?
Repairing and testing is always give and take. You replaced the Diode, OK. You want to test it, maybe it will work? Go ahead. If it works, replace C34? That's on you at that point. Do you have a spare C34 to throw in there? If you do I would say yes but you don't have too.
I have always thought that diode replacement was to remove the old one and replace with 2 (smaller signal) diodes in series with each other.
I have always thought that diode replacement was to remove the old one and replace with 2 (smaller signal) diodes in series with each other.
All your doing here is increasing the diode voltage drop.
Heck, some Class AB power amplifiers used 3 diodes in series to get the correct bias point for the output transistors.
Heck, some Class AB power amplifiers used 3 diodes in series to get the correct bias point for the output transistors.
The place I found the diodes requires you to buy a minimum of two, so I guess I will just trash the original and add the new ones in series.
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/24089-iicx-cap-polarity/
I recapped the board and it does work, but the PSU still ticks, even after I added another diode in series with the existing one.
Any ideas?
BTW: the one in the power supply was a 1N4606, so I bought another 1N4606 Ultra High Speed Switching Diode DO-35 NOS.
I recapped the board and it does work, but the PSU still ticks, even after I added another diode in series with the existing one.
Any ideas?
BTW: the one in the power supply was a 1N4606, so I bought another 1N4606 Ultra High Speed Switching Diode DO-35 NOS.
My money is still on the board. No extra power supply to swap in? The IIcx supply is also found in the IIci, Q700 and not sure where else.
Back when Mac discussions like this took place on Usenet (comp.sys.mac.****) and there was no Ebay (comp.sys.mac.wanted) there was an outfit offering to fix "dead" Q605s and LC/P 475/6 for $100 with exchange of the old logic board.
They were taking the old logic board, replacing the battery, and sending it back out again. $100 to change your battery. Quite a racket.
you may need a correct load? is it a 1 second tick-tick-tick?
2 events trigger this. underload, and overload. Check ohms readings between your rails to ground. at the motherboard, and at the power supply. if the impedance is too low, or shorted, thats a problem.
If the rail that contains the feedback network goes unloaded, or underloaded, it will cause an overshoot which the power supply will shut down and recycle from gross overvoltage condition. this trigger repeats until the correct load is produced.
Same thing if its shorted, or overloaded. it trips the overload detect sense resistor on the source of the MOSFET. same trigger event occurs, the timing capacitor on the SMPS control IC sets this.
2 events trigger this. underload, and overload. Check ohms readings between your rails to ground. at the motherboard, and at the power supply. if the impedance is too low, or shorted, thats a problem.
If the rail that contains the feedback network goes unloaded, or underloaded, it will cause an overshoot which the power supply will shut down and recycle from gross overvoltage condition. this trigger repeats until the correct load is produced.
Same thing if its shorted, or overloaded. it trips the overload detect sense resistor on the source of the MOSFET. same trigger event occurs, the timing capacitor on the SMPS control IC sets this.
Let's take a better look at this:
I read what unity said in the forum above, and it looks like I put the cap polarity in the same as the others. I reverted it, same result. If you take all load off, such as floppy and hard drive, it stays on if you are holding the power button. Once you plug something to the graphics card or add a hard drive, it dies. Hold the power again and it ticks, chimes, ticks, chimes...
I do have a Q700 coming next month, so I will see what happens if I swap PSUs.
I read what unity said in the forum above, and it looks like I put the cap polarity in the same as the others. I reverted it, same result. If you take all load off, such as floppy and hard drive, it stays on if you are holding the power button. Once you plug something to the graphics card or add a hard drive, it dies. Hold the power again and it ticks, chimes, ticks, chimes...
I do have a Q700 coming next month, so I will see what happens if I swap PSUs.
Before I get the Q700, does anyone have an idea as to what is wrong with the IIcx?
No one?
Lets recap this recap. You recapped the motherboard and power supply?
Only the motherboard was recapped.
Do you have any other power supplies? Like one from an SE or SE/30, etc? Just to rule it out. I modified the pin-outs on an SE supply to power up a IIcx. Worked great and told me that the motherboard was indeed the issue.
Or wait for the Q700.
Or take another look at the mobo. Keep in mind on a IIcx not all caps share the same polarity direction.
Or wait for the Q700.
Or take another look at the mobo. Keep in mind on a IIcx not all caps share the same polarity direction.
My IIci also had the ticking problem when i got it, but when I recapped the logic board it came back to life.
I think you should replace the "big" axial caps on the logic board
I think you should replace the "big" axial caps on the logic board
I did replace the axials with the rest of the capacitors. I will double check polarity and orientation on the weekend.
Well, I finally got some time today to take a look at it, and I had a spare IIvx PSU that fits the IIcx. I hit the power button, and the board powered up, but I had a rapidly repeating startup chime. I held the power button for a little longer and it looked like it started up. I then hooked it to a monitor, to which it immediately died and did nothing at startup. Is the video card the issue? Motherboard issue? Maybe two bad PSUs in a row? I am clueless right now.
try powering it from the keyboard.
also, try removing the HDD and the FD drive
Are you using an Apple CRT display?, maybe you need a monitor/adapter that understands Sync on Green (SoG).
also, try removing the HDD and the FD drive
Are you using an Apple CRT display?, maybe you need a monitor/adapter that understands Sync on Green (SoG).
It appears to die right as I plug a monitor in. It's a VGA adapter I am using to a flat screen monitor. I will try to power it from the keyboard and see what happens.