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System 0.85

System 0.85 Troubleshooting 53 posts May 11, 2007 — Jul 21, 2010
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#1 Fri, 11 May 2007 - 18:24
Most think that Macintosh System started at version 0.97. Before the forums went down, we went through modding a 128k Guide Disk to allow access to the full System 0.85.

Well, i've pre-made a Mini vMac disk image for you all. I can also be written to floppy with utilities such as Rawrite to make it run in a real 68k Mac.

http://www.irctunes.co.nr/sys085.zip (206kb)

You probably will need the Mac 128k version of Mini vMac to run this. It will run on the standard build, emulating a Mac Plus, but it crashes and hangs frequently. In the 128k version, it will run without problems. If you don't already have Mini vMac 128k, send me a PM and i'll send it across. (Emulator + 64k ROM)

#2 Sat, 12 May 2007 - 00:14
You've included a later version of Finder though, so you lose the most interesting features - the cool about box, and the different folder and mac icons. Try instead taking the "RealFinder" app and changing its name and type/creator to be a proper Finder again. You'll need to use one of the original guided tour disks for this too - it was all updated on later ones.

Ken

#4 Sat, 12 May 2007 - 10:30
Many of the early system disks include a little app that reports the system version. Alternatively, you can look in the System file with ResEdit - the version is contained in a string resource.

#5 Sat, 12 May 2007 - 10:33
Oh ok, thanks for the tip.

#6 Sat, 12 May 2007 - 13:28
Will system 0.85 run on a Quadra?

#7 Sat, 12 May 2007 - 13:35
Unlikely - most Macs are made so that they can't boot an OS older than the one that they originally came with. He said that this particular version only works with the 128k anyway ;)

#8 Sat, 12 May 2007 - 15:36
I tried running it on the Plus and it generally ran badly. Crashing when Finder windows open, etc. It runs well on the 128k and the 512k though.

#10 Sat, 12 May 2007 - 18:13
I got the same thing too - then when I clicked OK in that error message I got this.

#11 Sat, 12 May 2007 - 21:17
The emulation in minivmac is not perfect and some things work on a real Plus that don't work in the emulator. But this system only works with the 64K rom.

The minimum system for any quadra is 7.

#12 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 00:35
I got the same thing too - then when I clicked OK in that error message I got this.
Click to expand...
eww, Vista!!

I am a bit curious if that is infact the oldest released system? I guess it was used to run the guide for a reason, as it is probibly buggy and crash prone to begin with. I wonder what build date that has? most likely sometime in late 1983.

I have been trying to find a copy of the demo that jobs ran at the shareholder meeting. Wonder what system it runs? I read the story on folklore, so I don't know if hertzfeld still has a copy, or if jobs kept and/or destroyed the only copy...

-digital ;)

#13 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 00:54
Why don't you email Steve Jobs and ask him?

#14 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 01:17
eww, Vista!!
Click to expand...
More like "Mmmmm, Vista..." :D

I guess it was used to run the guide for a reason, as it is probibly buggy and crash prone to begin with.
Click to expand...
What could that reason be though? why didn't they use the same OS as on the 128k system disc?

Why don't you email Steve Jobs and ask him?
Click to expand...
But according to Jobs and "Apple Inc" nothing existed before OS X and G4s. Right? OS 9? What's that? :p

#15 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 01:22
But according to Jobs and "Apple Inc" nothing existed before OS X and G4s. Right? OS 9? What's that? :p
Click to expand...
I wonder he would say to the photo I could link of him and Woz in the garage of Woz's parent's house with an Apple I?

#16 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 01:27
I guess it was used to run the guide for a reason, as it is probibly buggy and crash prone to begin with.
Click to expand...
What could that reason be though? why didn't they use the same OS as on the 128k system disc?
Click to expand...
the older system was probibly smaller, so they could fit the guide on the same disk. It could also have been considered stable enough for it's designed purpose. It could have also been that the GM for the guide was needed for duplication before the system software was?

just a few theroies of mine.

-digital ;)

#17 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 01:31
I wonder he would say to the photo I could link of him and Woz in the garage of Woz's parent's house with an Apple I?
Click to expand...
Well it must have been an early iPhone prototype, no?

Was the OS on the system disc for the 128k 1.0 or 0.97? If 1.0, where did the copy of 0.97 come from?

#18 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 05:03
But according to Jobs and "Apple Inc" nothing existed before OS X and G4s. Right? OS 9? What's that? :p
Click to expand...
What the fark is a G4? Macs use Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs. NOTHING ELSE.

#19 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 06:28
The System 0.85 disk also does the same in my copy of Mini vMac. In the OS X build, I see the "Abnormal Situation" error, press C and it resumes to the desktop.

As for the Macintosh demo at the 1984 Shareholders Meeting, you'd have better luck emailing anyone from the Mac Development Team EXCEPT Steve Jobs. He doesn't respond to anyone without an "@apple.com" email address.

#20 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 08:38
What the fark is a G4? Macs use Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs. NOTHING ELSE.
Click to expand...
Mac Pros have Xenon 5100 series and 5300 series CPUs. Also, last I checked wasn't there still a CoreDuo Mac?
#21 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 08:47
The System 0.85 disk also does the same in my copy of Mini vMac. In the OS X build, I see the "Abnormal Situation" error, press C and it resumes to the desktop.
Click to expand...
I got the same abnormal situation error. I tried to click OK, but I got an emty, flickering error box. I had to control-q-y it to death. This is the OS X version of the Plus variant, btw.

I probibly should not mention this, but I don't have the 128k rom file, or else I would try it in that. I used copyroms on my personal Macintosh Plus to get the rom file to run Mini vMac. Normally, it runs a 80mb hard drive image with system 7.5.5 (highly vmac customized), with about a million games in it. It's about all I use it wor. Best dark castle platform, ever.

oh, and Macjunky, your right. The Mac Mini is still lagging behind, it only has the Core Duo (Core 1 Duo?) chip in it. All of the rest of apple's current line have Mermon C2D chips. We may see them move to the just released Santa Rosa C2D in a bit, the other laptop companies just did it this past week en masse.

-digital ;)

#23 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 09:04
It was used because the tour crashed under the release system and they didnt have time to fix it.

#24 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 09:09
wow, this is an odd system. I would say it is a late beta version. diffrent about box, the training menu, diffrent icons, diffrent dialog box, the odd way it opens and closes windows, the diffrent clock DA, and what appears to be the Key Caps app crashing when I open it.

odd system version. someone might want to email hertzfield and let him know our discovery.

-digital ;)

#25 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 18:29
Here's some screenshots for those of you that can't get it running:

Here's the blank desktop. Note the old floppy icons and the Training menu:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3550/picture1dw9.png

Here's the Startup Disk as shown from The Finder. Note the old "System Files" icons showing what appears to me a Macintosh with a Twiggy floppy drive, and the more rounded folder. Also note that The Finder isn't yet designated as one of the "System Files". Also note that there is no "System Folder" yet, and the "System Files" are just stuck in the root of the drive. This is because the folders in the old Macintosh File System were a farce. It was a one-level filesystem. The folders were illusions created by The Finder. Also note that the scroll bars in this early Finder don't white out when there's nothing to scroll to. The little scroll blocks stay there all the time.:

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6711/picture2mb5.png

Here's the "About the Finder" Dialog. Note the different picture, and the date of December 4, 1983:

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2905/picture3qs1.png

This is what a "Get Info" window looks like. The only difference here is that it doesn't show the time of creation:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/1012/picture4ca7.png

This is the File Menu. It's the same as in the shipping version of System 1, as are the Edit and View menus:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9021/picture5vd2.png

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/1770/picture6iy3.png

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5715/picture7bl3.png

Here's the Special Menu. Note the lack of the Erase Disk and Set Startup options:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1990/picture8zx9.png

The Training Menu seems to have only one purpose; to reset The Finder:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2811/picture9qf5.png

Here's a little dialog box. The yelling face is kinda different, as is the layout and wording. Also, as a side note, as you click on different things that The Finder can't open, it beeps more at you. One beep the first time, two beeps the second time... It does this up to three beeps, and then just keeps beeping at you three times:

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9093/picture10ob9.png

Here's the Apple Menu, showing the DA's:

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6338/picture11ae1.png

Here's the Clock DA. It's radically different, and actually looks more like it belongs on a Lisa:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6663/picture12nw5.png

Here's the Calculator. Note the different arrangement of the buttons:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1230/picture13kb8.png

Key Caps seems to crash and take down the entire system when it is launched:

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/6219/picture14ex1.png

The Puzzle DA is there and exactly the same:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7439/picture15cq6.png

The NotePad DA is there and exactly the same:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7775/picture16rk8.png

The Scrapbook DA seems to be non-functional. Perhaps that's why it says "This space for rent..." in it :p :

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7088/picture17sb7.png

And of course, the famous Control Panel:

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5008/picture18eo3.png

And there you have it! That's the system that started the system that started it all!

#26 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 18:36
If you can, try "Mousing Around" on the disk... Really fun!

#29 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 19:00
I ran the first version fine, but when I try the second version (the one with the beta Finder) it puts up the "abnormal situation" message when it starts up. I press C to continue and it's fine after that, except there is an "unknown disk" on the Mac's desktop as well as the "system 0.87" disk - what's going on there?

#30 Sun, 13 May 2007 - 19:02
It does the same thing for me. It's no major issue, probably just a few bugs. Notice that the unknown disk is only 200 and it's ghosted.

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