Thread
The Propaganda War
this is my point with the whole arab news media bit. its not that bad that its obviously highly biased. that fact is that it is all that the middle east people really hear. and there is not one, if i am wrong, please let us know, not one arab news outlet that shows any other possible news, other than the completely anti-american side. nothing on saddams henchmen gunning down those who attempt to surrender, nothing about illegal missiles iraq claimed it didn't have, but is still launching them on kuwait, as if that will accomplish anything at all.
they are arab, why not defend them? because they are working with the US.
this propaganda war is like no other. amazing. the iraqi's attempt at every chance to do anything to keep the people believing they can win this thing. it would be great to take a poll and find out just where most baghdad residents think that the allied forces are in iraq right now. do they have a clue in less than a week, we have forces sitting just 50 miles outside baghdad? i doubt it.
saddam's little trick of telling iraqi's not to touch the leaflets that are dropped because they are poison. crazy they would believe it but hey. what can you do.
actually gen. meyers is on al jazeera right now (and the chick interviewing him is super hot!) but i would love to get a translated version back to english after their translaters convert it to arab.
the propaganda war is tougher than the actual military fight in my eyes. whether we win or lose, we are evil anyway in so many minds over there.
they are arab, why not defend them? because they are working with the US.
this propaganda war is like no other. amazing. the iraqi's attempt at every chance to do anything to keep the people believing they can win this thing. it would be great to take a poll and find out just where most baghdad residents think that the allied forces are in iraq right now. do they have a clue in less than a week, we have forces sitting just 50 miles outside baghdad? i doubt it.
saddam's little trick of telling iraqi's not to touch the leaflets that are dropped because they are poison. crazy they would believe it but hey. what can you do.
actually gen. meyers is on al jazeera right now (and the chick interviewing him is super hot!) but i would love to get a translated version back to english after their translaters convert it to arab.
the propaganda war is tougher than the actual military fight in my eyes. whether we win or lose, we are evil anyway in so many minds over there.
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Originally posted by snotnose: we are evil anyway in so many minds over there. |
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Originally posted by snotnose: this is my point ........ |
Most incoherent post ever.
" i would love to get a translated version back to english"
The arab translations are rigorously accurate.
The problem with the propaganda war is that most people are much too sophisticated for it to work long. Look at the relative "revolt" of reporters in Qatar the past day or two. Donald's Rumsfeld's claims that the wars is according to plan sounds silly. Perhaps our positions are according to plan, but the enemy is behaving in a significantly different way. Further our equipment has suffered serious damage near Bagdad even if our casualties are thankfully light. (Although many have noted that the military has stoped giving casualty reports the way they initially were)
On other other hand one must also note that a lot of "propaganda" isn't. Take the revolt in Basra. Apparently that was based upon the report of an ebedded reporter that kept being propagated despite considerable evidence to the contrary. I just read a report on that at StratFor that was very interesting.
A lot of the "negativism" coming out even from the American media now is basically akin to propaganda in that it isn't really hinged on any fact. Yet expect terms like "quagmire" and "Vietnam" to start being brandied around. Already CNN is using that kind of terminology. (After one week and almost certainly less than 50 casualties - amazing)
On other other hand one must also note that a lot of "propaganda" isn't. Take the revolt in Basra. Apparently that was based upon the report of an ebedded reporter that kept being propagated despite considerable evidence to the contrary. I just read a report on that at StratFor that was very interesting.
A lot of the "negativism" coming out even from the American media now is basically akin to propaganda in that it isn't really hinged on any fact. Yet expect terms like "quagmire" and "Vietnam" to start being brandied around. Already CNN is using that kind of terminology. (After one week and almost certainly less than 50 casualties - amazing)
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Originally posted by spacefreak: And yet they keep on coming to the US in droves to study, work, and live. Amazing, isn't it? |
What does "they" mean ?! Arabs are real people, they don't all have the same opinions and feelings.
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Originally posted by spacefreak: And yet they keep on coming to the US in droves to study, work, and live. Amazing, isn't it? |
Even more amazing that they seem to be able to differ between the political/military U.S. and the actual country. Really amazing for these "rats", isn't it?!?
PB.
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Originally posted by S Monkey: What does "they" mean ?! Arabs are real people, they don't all have the same opinions and feelings. |
Exactly.
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Originally posted by snotnose: this is my point with the whole arab news media bit. its not that bad that its obviously highly biased. that fact is that it is all that the middle east people really hear. and there is not one, if i am wrong, please let us know, not one arab news outlet that shows any other possible news, other than the completely anti-american side. nothing on saddams henchmen gunning down those who attempt to surrender, nothing about illegal missiles iraq claimed it didn't have, but is still launching them on kuwait, as if that will accomplish anything at all. they are arab, why not defend them? because they are working with the US. this propaganda war is like no other. amazing. the iraqi's attempt at every chance to do anything to keep the people believing they can win this thing. it would be great to take a poll and find out just where most baghdad residents think that the allied forces are in iraq right now. do they have a clue in less than a week, we have forces sitting just 50 miles outside baghdad? i doubt it. saddam's little trick of telling iraqi's not to touch the leaflets that are dropped because they are poison. crazy they would believe it but hey. what can you do. actually gen. meyers is on al jazeera right now (and the chick interviewing him is super hot!) but i would love to get a translated version back to english after their translaters convert it to arab. the propaganda war is tougher than the actual military fight in my eyes. whether we win or lose, we are evil anyway in so many minds over there. |
Al Jazeera, the network we see Bin Laden on is actually a fairly objective network. To the extend that it has been banned in many Arab countries.
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Originally posted by undotwa: Al Jazeera, the network we see Bin Laden on is actually a fairly objective network. To the extend that it has been banned in many Arab countries. |
True
Problem in the US is most people watch TV witha bias, and want their bias stroked and loved. When a network "Shows the other side", or mentions it... people go crazy.
WHen a network has access to the other side... it's determined to be a terrorist.
People in the US over the past few years have come to the point where there can only be one side in an arguement.
Sad really... but true.
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Originally posted by macvillage.net: True...Problem in the US is most people watch TV witha bias, and want their bias stroked and loved. When a network "Shows the other side", or mentions it... people go crazy. |
Two Al Jazeera reporting episodes stand out in my mind in discrediting them as a reliable new source....
(1) The reports that the US aims to enslave Iraqis, and eventually all Arabs, and
(2) The reporting that a farmer shot down a U.S. Apache helicopter in a field, complete with video of the farmer dressed in rags and waving an ancient, wooden-handled rifle in the air.
In Al Jazeera's case, the 'other side' is purely fiction (anti-US propaganda, to be exact).
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Originally posted by spacefreak: Two Al Jazeera reporting episodes stand out in my mind in discrediting them as a reliable new source.... (1) The reports that the US aims to enslave Iraqis, and eventually all Arabs, and (2) The reporting that a farmer shot down a U.S. Apache helicopter in a field, complete with video of the farmer dressed in rags and waving an ancient, wooden-handled rifle in the air. In Al Jazeera's case, the 'other side' is purely fiction (anti-US propaganda, to be exact). |
The first I haven't heard about, so if you could provide any links would be great.
The second: It was the Iraqi TV that claimed the old farmer shot the Apache down with the rifle. Al-Jazeera said that the Iraqi TV stated that blablabla. So the only thing they did was to tell what the Iraqi TV said. Nothing wrong with that. Or is it?
BBC also showed those images, and said that the Iraqi TV claimed this and that. Are BBC also just showing pure fiction and anti-US propaganda, to be exact?
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Originally posted by Logic: The first I haven't heard about, so if you could provide any links would be great. The second: It was the Iraqi TV that claimed the old farmer shot the Apache down with the rifle. |
Both reports originated on Iraqi TV. It is the reluctance and inability on Al Jazeera's part to offer even the slightest bit of scrutiny or doubts to the reports that irks me. Al Jazeera reports these episodes as fact.
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| BBC also showed those images, and said that the Iraqi TV claimed this and that. Are BBC also just showing pure fiction and anti-US propaganda, to be exact? |
No. BBC and US stations (with the farmer-Apache episode) each went into coverage/details/reports of the battle that occurred when the Apache went down. Something like "An Apache helicopter went down today in some of the heaviest fighting of the war so far as the 3rd Infantry Division attacked Republican Guard positions south of Baghdad "
Al Jazeera didn't once mention anything about the battle, just that the farmer shot down the Apache.
That's a huge credibility gap.
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Originally posted by spacefreak: That's a huge credibility gap. |
Bah.
When western media quotes reports from US-UK troups, they are mostly passed on as facts, but reports from Iraqi troups are always 'hearsay', 'not independently verifyable', etc.
Arab media is just the other way around.
Was it a farmer or some artillery fire that downed the helicopter? We'll never know: the Iraqis want to increase the morale of their own people and show 'popular heroes'. The US-UK would never admit that an under-equipped farmer shot down one of their mighty helicopters. Unless supported by different sources, every news item is dubios.
A senior BBC News executive today admitted that the reporting of allied military claims in Iraq that later prove false, such as heralding the fall of Umm Qasr at least nine times, had "left the public feeling less well-informed than it should be".
Mark Damazer, the deputy director of BBC News, also admitted the BBC had been making mistakes "on a daily basis" during the first week of the Iraq conflict, but denied there was any deliberate bias towards either the pro or anti-war camps.
http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadca...,924747,00.html
Mark Damazer, the deputy director of BBC News, also admitted the BBC had been making mistakes "on a daily basis" during the first week of the Iraq conflict, but denied there was any deliberate bias towards either the pro or anti-war camps.
http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadca...,924747,00.html
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Originally posted by kvm_mkdb: Bah. When western media quotes reports from US-UK troups, they are mostly passed on as facts, but reports from Iraqi troups are always 'hearsay', 'not independently verifyable', etc. Arab media is just the other way around. |
BBC and US news sources make it a point to report what the Arab press is reporting. Arab news sources have yet to report one bit of the US point of view. They don't even whisper a peep about Saddam's extermination of hundreds of thousands of his own people.
To say that the reporting is the same is simply being delusional. But then, you seem to think it's just as possible that a farmer in a field with a bolt-action, pre-1950 wooden rifle can bring down a US Apache helicopter.
Wake up.
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Originally posted by kvm_mkdb: [i]A senior BBC News executive....blah blah blah |
Exactly my point.
British and US news sources will correct misreported stories once more evidence becomes available. The Arab press practices no such discipline.
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Originally posted by spacefreak: Exactly my point. British and US news sources will correct misreported stories once more evidence becomes available. The Arab press practices no such discipline. |
Hmmm. I have not seen such statements on other western media - the BBC deserves all our admiration for at least trying.
Both Fox and CNN said that the chemical plant in the west desert *didn't* have chemical weapons, after initial speculation said otherwise. Both said that there *wasn't* an uprising in Basra after confusion over that initial report. Both have corrected casualty reports (reporting some things were casualties that weren't and vice versa)
What errors have you seen them make that they didn't correct?
What errors have you seen them make that they didn't correct?
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Originally posted by spacefreak: BBC and US news sources make it a point to report what the Arab press is reporting. Arab news sources have yet to report one bit of the US point of view. They don't even whisper a peep about Saddam's extermination of hundreds of thousands of his own people. |
That is not true. I seriously doubt you follow the Arab press.
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To say that the reporting is the same is simply being delusional. But then, you seem to think it's just as possible that a farmer in a field with a bolt-action, pre-1950 wooden rifle can bring down a US Apache helicopter. |
I thought he had a submachine-gun; nevertheless it's far from impossible.
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| Wake up. |
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Originally posted by clarkgoble: Donald's Rumsfeld's claims that the wars is according to plan sounds silly. Perhaps our positions are according to plan, but the enemy is behaving in a significantly different way. Further our equipment has suffered serious damage near Bagdad even if our casualties are thankfully light. (Although many have noted that the military has stoped giving casualty reports the way they initially were) |
I really cannot help but think of the bru-ha-ha surrounding the Millennium Challenge war games last year.
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Originally posted by clarkgoble: What errors have you seen them make that they didn't correct? |
You didn't read the article. It says "The secret is attribution, qualification and scepticism". BBC is trying to apply that to both sides -- compare on CNN:
Later in the day, 101st Airborne soldiers made their first attack deep inside Iraq, using dozens of helicopters to hit an Iraqi armored brigade about 100 miles southwest of Baghdad. Coalition planes were also involved in the attack, which destroyed a number of Iraqi tanks.
with
In Baghdad on Friday, a hospital official claimed 52 Iraqi civilians had been killed and more than 30 wounded in an airstrike on a residential neighborhood about 6 p.m. (10 a.m. EST).
Whatever the US military says is reported as fact, whatever the Iraqi says is a claim.
The funny part is that since the start of the war Iraqis have not made one claim that resulted false, unlike the US-UK.
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Originally posted by kvm_mkdb: I thought he had a submachine-gun; nevertheless it's far from impossible. |
From the Military Analysis Network...
"The Apache has a full range of aircraft survivability equipment and has the ability to withstand hits from rounds up to 23MM in critical areas."
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Originally posted by spacefreak: Far from impossible that the farmer wearing rags in a field shot down an Apache with his ancient, wooden rifle? You have got to be kidding. |
Hold on - The caption on Al Jazeera says both he used an RPG - the soldier next to him is holding it, not the wooden rifle and that is cited as 'claim'. It's not unlikely the Iraqi TV says he shot with the rifle, I don't know.
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Originally posted by kvm_mkdb: Hold on - The caption on Al Jazeera says both he used an RPG - the soldier next to him is holding it, not the wooden rifle and that is cited as 'claim'. It's not unlikely the Iraqi TV says he shot with the rifle, I don't know. |
The fact is that neither Iraqi TV nor Al Jazeera reported the Apache as going down in a massive firefight (16 Apaches vs. hundreds of Rep. Guard) against enemy positions as the US reported. More importantly, Al Jazeera didn't even cite the U.S. 'claim'.
FYI: here's a pic. If this guy can bring down an Apache, the helicopters probably shouldn't be in battle.
UPDATE - Al Jazeera's reporting that an Iraqi farmer just took out one of our tanks.
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Originally posted by spacefreak: The fact is that neither Iraqi TV nor Al Jazeera reported the Apache as going down in a massive firefight (16 Apaches vs. hundreds of Rep. Guard) against enemy positions as the US reported. More importantly, Al Jazeera didn't even cite the U.S. 'claim'. |
How do you know Al Jazeera didn't report about the other version?
Considering your earlier claims, I don't believe you understand arabic.
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Originally posted by kvm_mkdb: I don't believe you understand arabic. |
No kudos for the photos - especially #2 w/ the tank?
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Originally posted by spacefreak: UPDATE - Al Jazeera's reporting that an Iraqi farmer just took out one of our tanks.
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http://www.spacefreak.com/macnn/farmer-tank.jpg
Photoshop job? Al-Jazeera generally labels it's images numerically, and almost never in English (http://aljazeera.net/mritems/images..._146932_1_6.jpg)
You might have renamed the image when you saved it locally, but I have the idea that you took an image from the first Gulf War of a burning Iraqi tank (It's a Russian T-55 or a T-62) in front of burning Kuwaiti Oil wells and superimposed a reversed image of the farmer from the Apache photo in the media recently.
Um, theo,
I believe that was why he was specifically requesting kudos for the second image - it's Photoshop work.
-s*
I believe that was why he was specifically requesting kudos for the second image - it's Photoshop work.
-s*