French: Ungrateful?

No friends should not expect blind loyalty, but a "friend" should have a friends back in the time of need. Friends have a common goal and interest. Friends don't make deals behind the backs of their friends for their own gain.

This isn't like some stupid argument between friends over 5 bucks. The french have chosen to side with an an Evil, brutal dictator to protect their own financial interests. To say weapons inspections were working is a joke. They had 12 years.

Meanwhile the french and the french companies are lining up to profit off of iraq througout the 90's, all the while not only were they whining how sanction were not working, they were working to undermine them. How are they supposed to work that way?

With friends like that, we don't need enemies.

Blue - you have links to backup these claims? As much as I'd like to believe you I prefer to see with my own eyes.

France is on the side of Saddam? Sorry but now i cant take you serious anymore!

To say weapons inspections were working is a joke? Even Blix said that there was progress.

And to your last statement:

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/aiding.htm

And to make sure every country is involved i just found this:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showart...=15&ItemID=2766

This shows that there is a differents between companies involved with Iraq and government involved with Iraq!

Since its a proven fact that IBM was involved making business with "The third Reich" during WWII and i dont think the US Government was on Hitlers side!

When will the likes of you learn that "If you're not with us, you're against us" only works in the sandbox and in Westerns (just a bigger sandbox really).

It's a friend's duty to let you know if they think you're doing something incredibly stupid.

And you can bet your ass that once this war is over - whenever that may be - france and Germany will be among the first to deal with the mess you leave behind. Just like in Afghanistan.

-s*

I posted this in another thread. I'll post it agains so our friend who likes calling people a**holes:

What makes me wonder is that America media (and a fair amount of you here as well, it seems) forget so quickly, and above all so selctively. No one here seems to remember the response NATO made to the attacks on 9/11. They invoked the article on an attack on a member country for the first time. Hosts of nations supported the American "war on terror". America's favourite whipping boy, France, sent an Aircraft carrier to take part in attacks on Afghanistan, French planes are based in Kyrgyzstan to this day that participated in that conflict. There are units French soldiers that do duty in the international force north of Kabul. French soldiers and their Airforce were in every conflict from the first Gulf War to Bosnia and Kosovo. Obviously, they regarded those conflicts as justified. French UN peacekeeping units in Bosnia were the only ones to actually do their duty and defend the areas assigned to them from Bosnian Serbs. 78 French soldiers lost their lives there. The Dutch, in Srebrenica didn't even try to prevent the massacre there, yet no one makes jokes about Dutch soldiers surrendering quicker than you can say, "Hands up".

Every one here gets on their high horse about how ungrateful France is for the US/UK liberating it from the Germans 59 years ago. Isn't it amazing how conveniently an entire country with such an enlightened media and population, such as yours, remember those facts from all that way back, yet nothing since? Isn't it amazing how one can attribute other nations getting in the way of "American sovereignty" and "American self defense", when a really large number of people and nations simply have seen no proof of the threat to the USA from Iraq apart from some American politicians saying so?

If your country decided that no one has the right to privacy any more, or for a more realistic exmaple, if your government decided to ban private posession of firearms, because the politicians in Washington say it is a "threat to our nation", what would the resulting protests look like? Would everyone suddenly believe what the government is saying or would there be large protests?

Other nations and medias (not only European, take a look at the Time of India) do not see the war in Iraq as being anywhere close to American self defense. This war affects everyone here and across the globe. It is messing badly with our economies and many people are worried about the future, because they see Islamic terrorism being on the rise, and unrest in our large Muslim minorities, which are a part of our populations. They are highly sceptical of what this war will achive in the long run. It is their right, as, believe it or not, they also have and know the concept of sovereignty.

I'm not pro Chirac as I think he's an egoistic bastard who's in it for the money and prestige, but neither would I trust many other politicians who are so keen on wasting blue eyed boys and girls lives in a conflict of dubious purpose.

Every one here gets on their high horse about how ungrateful France is for the US/UK liberating it from the Germans 59 years ago. Isn't it amazing how conveniently an entire country with such an enlightened media and population, such as yours, remember those facts from all that way back, yet nothing since?

Not true. We remember DeGaulle as well. <grin>

That was actually a good one.

Won't that be nice! We've dealt with a few messes France has left over (eg Vietnam, Panama), this is a welcome change of pace.

Have the French finished cleaning up Algeria?

http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/05/france-0516.htm

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/fralgier.htm

LOL now i cant take you serious anymore! You were in Vietnam for your own interest!

From "The American Age" by Walter LaFeber, one of the formost experts in US Foreign Policy:



And it goes on... Additionally, the French broke an agreement in 1946 to allow Vietnamese autonomy. They then broke a later agreement to provide political freedom to the Vietnamese when they attacked Hai Phong Harbor.

Additionally, about 70% of the 16,000 French troops at Dien Bien Phu were either Vietnamese or were French Foreign Legion (eg former Nazis).

Yes the United States had interests in Vietnam, but it's quite clear that our involvement, at least initially, was an attempt to mop up France's mess.

of course this is a disgusting act but i take offense to the british claiming that it is a desicration of only their war dead. both of those articles in the original link fail to mention the 1100 canadian souls that are at rest there.

but since canada does not support this war i suppose our dead were not worth mention. despite canada's stand it is unfair to those men lying in those graves to forget their ultimate sacrifice.

just my 2 cents

Perhaps you will prefer this article, which mentions the Canadians and Australians buried there: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/02/i...ope/02GRAV.html

This argument is totally garbage, as the french government could stop these countries from doing business. and the french government is the one whining to get the sanctions lifted so the french oil companies can put the contracts they already have signed with iraq into effect.

Further more if you want to place a distinction between government and companies, how can you say the US is in this for oil money? After all there is a difference between companies and government, at least according to you.

For informationon how french and russian oil companies pushed heavily on goverment to stall at the UN, see

http://usainreview.com/1_21_Security_Council.htm

Cronyism exists on both sides of the Atlantic



It also helps to know that while IBM did help the nazi's it was IBM's maneuvering and scheming to hide this fact from the US govermentthat allowed this to happen. Their were numerous investigations on this at the time, and it was only later that IBM was forced to admit that they were invovled with Germany.

http://www.acsa2000.net/ibm_and_hitler.htm

Not like today where the companies are blatantly trying to get a piece of the oil pie and keep saddam in power.

heh. i would have to create an account to read that link. but i will take your word and in fact i do appreciate it. all my feelings on this war aside the initial articles posted made me sad because this is a disgusting crime committed on all those individuals of all nationalities in that cemetery.

my hope is that the individuals are caught and are punished. i also hope that the french government will apologize for this act on behalf of their people who owe those men their freedom.

thanks for posting your link. truly.

My understanding of the contracts situation is that US companies tendered for all of those contracts but didn't get them because their quotes were less competitive. Of course, there were political concerns too. The US was more active in Gulf War I and the Europeans are probably better acquainted with the view from under the table, but it's not for want of trying that US companies didn't get those contracts.

To go back to this:

If that were the case, why did it take the US so long to get involved? And why did they only react after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. Please, they got involved because they realised they were next! Another example of the selective memory Theolein was referring to!

considering the use of the swastika (reversed or otherwise) you get no prize for guessing the group of people who did the graffiti - neo nazi morons

What they did was extremely wrong and they should hang by their balls for doing it

Actually, I doubt that. My guess is that they were just calling Bush and Blair Nazis. Not that that makes it any better of course.

"Mort aux Yankees"

That means "Yankees Suck", right?

Aha! The French are Red Sox fans! i knew there was a reason i liked 'em!