Load up, load up, load up with rubber bullets.

I'm with you.

Seriously, if these people are breaking the law, and they were, they better be prepared for the consequences.

Again, protest all you want. Get a permit, do it in a public square, private home, whatever...just NOT blocking anybody from going about their work or whatever.

Don't break the law, unless you want to bear the consequences...even if that means taking a rubber bullet to the jaw.

Is this too much to ask?

Reminds me of a friend who got a paintball welt that had nearly the same result as that rubber bullet...gross...ouch...no paintballing for me!

crazy, actually she is lucky she didn't get hit in the temple, or else she would be dead

Perhaps. But there is such a thing as excessive force. People have died from rubber bullet wounds! They could have just used tear gas, or whack them with a stick...

I say sue the police.

What do you suggest they do?

I don't know I'm not an expert.
Considering that there have been millions of people protesting all over the world in the past couple of months with the majority of them being peaceful, obviously there are police organizations that know how to deal with protests in a non-violent fashion.

You don't fuvcking SHOOT people for protesting for Christ�s sake!!! Waddayamean if they are breaking the law they should be prepared to suffer the consequences? That's one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. You mean, for example, you provide some knowingly false information to the IRS - they should come and shoot you? Friggin idiots. What's wrong with you people?

Shoot people for protesting, No. But they were not just protesting, more like starting a riot.

There is a big difference between holidng a sign up a sign, and refusing to obey a lawfull order by the Police, and instead picking up a rock. It sounds to me the protester were lucky not to get a 9mm bullet insead.

No you're not. I was being sarcastic.

With this type of mentality, it's no wonder your country is always at war. Hell, there are wars going on in your cities, even in your schools. It's all a matter of perspective.

I'd like to hear from some honest peace-activist types- really, aren't you getting a bit sick of the nutballs among your ranks? Seriously, where's the outcry from those that really do have 'peace' in mind. (ALL forms of it, not just some selective political form of it.)


There are just a few facts of life at work here, that for some strange reason, these people insist on having to learn 'the hard way�, when most people manage to have an innate sense of them.

You see, it really doesn't matter what the gathering or group is; it could be you, me, anyone. Any of us could be out on the town with our buddies, it could be the old ladies rotary club whooping it up having a good time, maybe even shouting 'down with the government' and 'no oil for whores!' or whatever the hell floats your boat.

All good, clean fun. But be honest: If there's going to be trouble, there's usually a common and easily identified point where it starts. It's not that hard to spot, or to grasp. (for most people).


A hint: It's those moments when the obligatory a$$holes of the group... -whichever group, maybe it's the lull after a few too many drinks, or possibly in the heat of passion after singing Kum-Ba-Ya a few too many times -whatever the impetus- ...when the obligatory a$$holes of the group decide that they�ve got to liven things up by going above and beyond a mere �average mortal� level of stupidity, and ratchet things up by achiving PRO-LEVEL-STUPIDITY, such as:



Therein lies the problem. No Virginia, it wasn�t just that you were protesting. Nope, it wasn�t just that they didn�t like your blue hair or what slogan de-jour you were shouting.

Note to protestors who DON'T wish to be pelted with rubber bullets, teargassed, arrested, etc: CURB your stupid friends who can't control themselves, or simply come to the realization that maybe hanging with them wasn�t your most brilliant idea ever.

It really is that simple.

Newsflash: This has always been the true, for most everyone.

Can we all cut the crap over this stuff for a minute and get on the same page about it? Yes Virginia, that means flip past the chapters starting with 'Let's pretend...' and 'Once upon a time...' Flip alllllll the way to the back, that's it... all the way to the chapter called �GET REAL�.

There you go. That's the page I'm talking about.

If you scroll down to paragraph twelve, section four, under the title �Undisputed facts of life�, you'll notice the part about what happens when you do things like toss bricks at a cop, or spray one with mace. There it is, in bold letters for you: YOU"LL GET YOUR ASS KICKED ALONG WITH THE ASSES OF YOUR CRONIES WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAN TO TAKE YOU OUT IN PUBLIC.

Another newsflash: No, the protestors are not as special as they like to believe they are in this regard.

The police would do the same to your Aunt Martha and her bridge club if Mrs. Jones and Mrs. Smith couldn't control their cravings to put on black ski masks and toss large chunks of concrete at armed cops. Don't take my word for it; have them try it. But you see, your Aunt Martha, Mrs. Jones and Mrs. Smith already know this.

And another thing: sorry, no sympathy points for the after the fact 'oh poor, poor, pitiful me' injury photos, when you already knew that your uncontrollably belligerent friends Joe, Fred, and Sunbeam have a tendency to do stupid shite like lay down in the street and mace cops who try to remove them.

Can we reach some sort of understanding on that as well?

Doing the SAME stupid ****, the same stupid way, over and over again expecting different results will NOT yield different results. [Undisputed fact of life, section four, paragraph fourteen.] Throwing **** at, and acting belligerent toward cops has a VERY PREDICTABLE outcome. This isn�t going to change.

In summary: can we please cut the crap over this kind of stuff? Can someone on the protestor side of the isle pass some of this advice along to their pals? I dunno, I suspect a memo WAS sent out at some point, but it appears to have been misplaced.

For people being so for peace, they aren't showing it.

Sometimes you type a downright enlightening post, CRASH.

What you are assuming, even advocating, is guilt by association.
Whatever the actions of troublemakers might be, the authorities have a duty of care to protect the innocent from harm. That does not mean the indiscriminate firing of rubber bullets.

Let me explain this with an example.

You happen to live next to a crack den. Rather than just taking out just the drug dealers the police just blast the whole area.Your family gets killed. If I'd follow your argument this would be your own fault because you were stupid enough to live next to this crack den.

.

That's a lousy example.

None of the protestors were 'living next to the crack den'. They showed up AT and created a crack den.

In fact, the 'innocent neighbors' in the area are actually the ones living and doing business next to the 'newly formed crack den' by your example, or in other cases, are people simply trying to get to work. It's not the police who are unfairly targeting the neighbors. The neighbors probably called the cops in the first place.

No one got killed, so that makes no sense, and certainly none of the actual neighbors in the area.

However, if you were hanging out AT a place turned into a crack den (not next door to it) with people actually using and selling crack, (even if you weren't one of them) and then the cops raided the place and you got scuffled up in the raid- would you not be a little bit stupid and to blame for hanging out at a crack den?


Not a perfect example, sure, but you came up with the 'crack den' example, so it's what I had to work with. But certainly your 'innocent neighbor' example fits- in as much as its actually the protestors making their lives hell.


Anyway, why is any of this so hard to grasp? Why all the hoops of logic over what is actually so basic?

Here's a (very incomplete) list of things virtually any cop really couldn't care less about you, yet will nail your ass with a rubber bullet or whatever else happens to be handy if you block legitimate business, create a nusiance, and toss bricks and stones at him.

He will really care less:

That your political views are to the left.
That your political views are to the right.
That you hate GW Bush.
That you like GW Bush.
That you hate Al Gore.
That you like his daughters.
That you don't like the war.
That you're in favor of the war.
That you have a peace sign on your shirt.
That your shirt is red.
That your underwear is yellow.
That you're not wearing underwear.
That you're bald.
That you're fat.
That you're skinny.
That you're a liberal.
That you're a conservative.
That you bowl.
That you eat corn flakes for breakfast out of a bowl.
That you're black.
That you're white.
That you're blue.
That your hair is blue.
That your teeth are blue.
That you smoke.
That you don't smoke and think smoking is evil.
That you like to chant 'no oil for war'.
That you like Clinton.
That you're a Democrat.
That you're a Republican.
That you're on the fence.
That you drive a green car.
That you take the bus.
That you're male.
That you're female.
That a five year old calls you 'Aunt Martha'.
That you're single.
That you're ugly.
That you're the most attractive person that ever lived.
That you're rich.
That you're poor.
That you use a Mac.
That you use a PC.
That you haven't bathed in a week
That you're you're clean


Like I said, a very incomplete list. Contact your local law enforecment agency for the full 5,257 page full one.

The rule of thumb seems to be, not that you can't protest, or play golf, or sing kum-ba-ya, or whatever, just don't block ports, toss bricks and rocks at cops, or hang out with people that list those sorts of things as hobbies,while you do so.

If you do happen to take a rubber bullet for some a$$hole amid your group who tossed a chunk of concrete at a cop, you MIGHT want to consider focusing your anger at said a$$hole, rather than blaming all of society, or pretending that it was your 'cause', or any other besides-the-point detail which got you your lumps.

It wasn't.

An HONEST MAN! Wow!

I'm floored!

Such a rare, yet oh-so refreshing thing!

I still believe that you're wrong. You should never have to take punishment for an action you're innocent of, whatever the difficulties might be in arresting the real culprit. The entirity of our legal system rests on that premise.

You're assuming in your above example that all protestors were attacking the police in one way or another. I understand that that was not the case. If I am mistaken in that point I'll take it all back and agree with you.

Oh, and if you don't like my examples, feel free to come up with your own

I agree with you in principal. T'would indeed be great if the cops could pluck the stone throwers out of an angry mob and let all the true peace-lovers go about there way unmolested.


But I believe there is actually room in the law for a certain level of guilt by association. You can't just claim, "Well I only drove the getaway car, I didn't rob the store or shoot the guy!"
If you're part of a crowd and people are committing acts like throwing rocks at cops, if you're one of the people with even a shred of common sense, maybe it would be best to draw a line and move along when told to?


How about the idea of �okay, point made, you blocked the port for a while, thaaat's real cute. Joke over.� But come on, does anyone really think they'd be allowed to stand there forever and not be challenged? What **really** is the point of ratcheting something like this up to the pro-level of stupidity?

Truly, this is almost at the level of someone who would jump off the roof of a 3 story building and then, after busting themselves up, express some sort of righteous indignation against gravity.


Some outcomes you CAN predict, without having to do so the hard/stupid way.




No, there was a little matter of blocking a port also. If you're standing there, asked to leave, and you don't... and the crowd contains belligerent nitwits?

Some outcomes you CAN predict.

Exactly. However, I believe to have read hat people who were peacefully walking away from the area were being shot at by police.

I was trampled by a police horse once on New Years Eve. I was just standing there on the footpath when someone yelled "LOOK OUT" and before I could turn around a police horse went straight over the top of me. Knocked me flat. I still don't know why. They just kept going. Really hurt my leg. I guess it was my fault for standing on the footpath.

If I had of turned around in time I would have smacked that police horse in the mouth.

Seems the protestors are trying to advance to the KentState� level.
You can't be a good hippie without the I survived KentState� badge.

Actually, the article is almost certainly wrong. The picture shows a cop with a shotgun. That wouldn't have been firing rubber bullets. What they usually fire is little bean bags. Still very painful, but much less dangerous.

Firstly thes people were commiting Sabotage As of this code. Therefore they should be arrested. The link to the rest of the code is on the bottom

U.S. CODE AS OF 1/02/01


TITLE 18 CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I, CHAPTER 105 - SABOTAGE


Section 2153


(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, or in times of national emergency as declared by the President or by the Congress, with intent to injure, interfere with, or obstruct the United States or any associate nation in preparing for or carrying on the
war or defense activities, or, with reason to believe that his act may injure, interfere with, or obstruct the United States or any associate nation in preparing for or carrying on the war or defense activities, willfully injures, destroys, contaminates or infects,
or attempts to so injure, destroy, contaminate or infect any war material, war premises, or war utilities, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than thirty years, or both.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/sabotage.html

Right, but for that minority who doesn't know how to hold a peaceful protest, they have to endure the consequences of breaking the law.

Is this some far-fetched idea? Breaking the law=punishment? Sheesh...

Don't break the freaking law or you will be faced with punishment.

How does lying to the IRS (which deserves some form of punishment, if caught) equate with violence towards authorities (at a peaceful protest, mind you)?



Yeah, down with discipline!

I know, that's why I said "Seriously" after I said that. Subtle, but obviously it didn't work.

We need some "sarcasm" smiley or something.

Classic! Seems logical doesn't it CRASH?

Hilarious.

Do these protestors have jobs? They must be wealthy people or college students where mommy and daddy are paying for them to be there.

The police should just ask very nicely. After all, these are totally rational people they are dealing with.

Seriously, if you want to protest, good. Stand there with a sign. But don't get in the way of people doing their jobs. That's when you cross the line and are no longer "peacably assembling."

I just love how these people claim to "support the troops" but they want to stop the shipments that supply those very troops.