Al Jazeera office gets hit, here we go.

it was the palestine hotel that got hit. hosting not only aljazeera but many other foreign press offices, four british from reuters were also wounded.

edited: actually these are 2 seperate cases, the palestine hotel got shot by a tank.

One Reuters cameraman dead. B.G. Brooks talked about shots being fired from the lobby, then asked why the tank fired on the 15th floor...... He claimed he misspoke himself...........

Well, if the Iraqi's would stop using civilians as shields, stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Reporter Rageh Omar of the BBC said that none of the reporters had heard any fire coming from the Palestine Hotel. Not for at least 20-30 min before the tank shot at them.

Reports are that one Reuters and one Al-Jazeera camera men died. Several injured.

One word comes to mind: Cowboys.........

Latest is that THREE separate journalist targets were hit:
1. Palestine Hotel.
Tank shell to the 15th floor, killed one reporter. Some speculation that reporters on the roof with binoculars were mistaken for snipers or spotters.

2. Al-Jazeera offices
Elsewhere in Baghdad; the offices were hit by two air-to-surface bombs. One reporter killed.

3. Abu Dhabi Television offices
Elsewhere in Baghdad; hit by rifle fire and perhaps a tank shell, when two journalists were filming American tanks rolling by.

I don't subscribe to the theory that Americans were doing this on purpose (that would be counter to their interests), but it goes to show how hazardous urban warfare is. Some soldier sees something, shoots, then realizes later he shouldn't have shot.

It's the same reason Israel should get the hell out of the territories -- one minute you're chasing a sniper, the next minute you've killed 2 kids and a UN worker. It's just a bad framework for fighting.

Also: this has nothing to do with Iraqis using human shields. No one has indicated that there were in fact Iraqis firing from near any of these journalists. It's just a mistake, but one that should have been avoidable.

Completly agree with you on this. Of course the US military isn't on purpose killing reporters. But perhaps because of the stress of the situation they will unfortunatly be more inclined to shoot first, think later. Same thing is going on in Israel. I doubt the Israeli military(generally) like to kill civilians, medical staff and UN staff. But unfortunatly that happens.

Not to minimize their deaths, but what were they thinknig. This is a war zone. The civilians might not get to choose, but these journalists knew what they were getting into.

Thats like saying because an american journalist gets killed in a 3rd world country covering a civil war, that the parent news organization will suddenly become biased as a result of this. A credible news agency understands the risks involved and reports the facts, not their interpretation of the facts.

Totally agree. The sad thing is that the urban 'warfare' part of the war has just begun, it is only going to get worse, with more accidents, suicide bombings, and other horrible stuff.

I just saw an interview of a journalist who was in the hotel. She gave the account of how one guy who had all of his skin burned off from the blast and resulting fire... she thought he was dead but then he started making noise.

THis war is so ****ed up.

Fair enough, but the government also had the coordinates of all three of those journalist locations. The Palestine hotel has been the #1 most-seen location in Iraq on cable news over the past 3 weeks.

I mean, the journalists don't have to be there, but the military doesn't have to shoot at them, either. Some trigger-happy tank commander should definitely be reprimanded for this.


One interesting thought: We hear about the reporters, since, duh, they're in the media. How many innocent Iraqis have been accidentally killed that we'll never hear live coverage of?

Yes, if the Iraqi's would stop using civilians as shields, the Americans wouldn't have to go in and shoot the **** out of everything.

over a thousand and rising...

People die in war. I know that sounds callous, but it happens. I'm not going to get into a philosophical debate about whether the ends justify the means today.

Having sad that we are only hearing one side of the story here, so its hard to make guess-timates on what happened. Perhaps there was a legitimarte threat in those areas that the journalist weren't aware of. Who knows, maybe it was a mistake. maybe Saddam was clustering his forces near the foreign journalists, just like he was using hospitals and schools for human shields. It easy to rush to judgement

The tank fired in response to sniper fire.
Considering that everyone should have known that the hotel was full of journalists, this was a pretty big screw up by whom ever was in the tank.

Pleas remember that the soldiers are not privy to the birds eye view of the war that we have. Often the only news they hear is the rumor mill. Yes, many people watching on TV know that these Hotels are the base for many foreign journalists. But the guys with their feet on the ground may have had no idea. They receive fire from a hotel, they take said hotel out.

Don't you mean it was a pretty big screw up by whom ever the sniper was?

I'm sure they have recieved intel about that this and that location contains civilians and reporters. It's not like there are a few reporters at that hotel, most of the western media is there. And the reporters at the hotel say that they didn't hear any fire coming from the hotel. So the rumor of a sniper being in the hotel is highly suspicious. If the US military is true when they say they are trying to minimize civilian casualties I'm sure they tell their troops where it is certain that civilians are based. And what could a sniper do to a armored tank???? Ridiculous.

My point is, this is all conjecture. More then likely, the soldiers on the ground did not know what was in this hotel. I can tell you from experience that just becasue a bunch of Stars with legs in the rear have intelligence about a situation, it does not mean the front line troops have that information. Hence the term, "fog of war"

The term armchair quarterback also comes to mind

Well I dunno...this is just what they are claiming so far. In all likelyhood, they looked in the direction they thought the sniper fire was coming from, saw someone's camara lens flash, then fired at it... probably without realizing that it was the Palastine hotel. Or maybe not.

If the latest remark was meant for me I should tell you that I probably know more about military engagements than you. Actually I've been the "footsoldier" and I know what intel they get. There is no excuse for doing what they did except being very stressed and a little to triggerhappy. This probably just was an honest mistake, I'm not saying that they thought it be cool to kill some reporters. But this mistake should not be tolerated and excused like one general said: It was the reporters fault, they know they are in a hostile area.

That is not acceptable when the same person says they are doing everything they can to avoid civilian casualties.

Do you really think that the soldiers are sent into an urban area and not told what areas and builings they should avoid engaging?

If you were indeed on the ground, as I have been, then you should know exactly how your fellow soldiers feel about people second guessing a situation they had no knowldege of. Thats my point, right now you only have information from one news source. You have no freakin idea went on there and for you to guess other wise would be Armchair Quarterbacking. Speculation, conjecture, guessing.

I'm not saying they were right or wrong, just offering alternatives to what you PRESUME to have happened. Who needs a floow up to this story confirm the facts, after all you've already made up your mind.

Me I give my boys the benefit of the doubt, and if I'm wrong later, then I'll admit it.

This is not something I get from one newssource. Almost every western media was in that building. They were filming the tanks on the bridge, and watching them engage the enemy here and there. Suddenly the tank aims at the hotel, pauses and then fires. The reporters in the building say they heard no fire coming from the hotel so what he was firing on we don't know. Then we got what the military is saying but that contradicts what the reporters at the site said. I trust them better than some general in Qatar.

I never said this was deliberatly done by the troops, it seems to have been a idiotic mistake. I'm sure they are doing their best in the situation. My guess is that they were under extreme pressure and very tense. Then they see some guy up in a building holding something big on his shoulder so they immediatly think anti-tank missile. They shoot. But the fact remains that they have the intel needed to avoid this. They knew that exactly that building houses press. One more second of thinking and a deep breath would probably have avoided this. You will probably say that exactly that extra second is something they don't have. I somewhat agree with you but the fact remains that they are in an urban area where civilians are. That extra second is something you should take to assure you when in doubt that you are not taking out a civilian.

Not to doubt the reporters, but the Iraqi government has minders with all of the reporters. If there was fire from the building, they would probably not have been allowed to report on it.

Another thread is reoporting that the tank targeted for over 2 minutes. Somehow I don't think this was a kneejerk lashing out. Obviously those troops in the tanks had a good reason to fire.

I hadn't heard that. That makes this even more suspicious. I mean, how could they hit the reporters instead of a soldier if they took the time to aim for 2 minutes?

I really don't get this.....

Not to minimize ANYONE's death, but if you report from a WAR ZONE, you're pretty much begging for it. Now, anyone who thinks any of these were deliberate needs a tinfoil hat.

Most idiotic post of the week.

reporting from a war zone is their JOB. They are professional journalists and they are employed to do that very thing. they have steel cahonies, a great deal of courage and professionalism under fire.....and you have.....?




Are soldiers begging to get killed because they are in a war zone? No, its their job.

So you are saying that the military, aid workers, hospital crew and so on are begging for it?

heh...great minds and all that.