Another "help-me-build-a-PC" thread. (I really need your help, though.)

www.pricewatch.com

Cheapest prices for everything.

You're welcome, prick.

- Ca$h

FiringSquad. Even if you don't use the parts they recommend, it will help you understand what parts you need and how to put it all together.

Asus motherboard
ATX case with two or three 5.25" drive bays (for CDRW and DVD-rom or DVD-rw)

most motherboards will have sound built in.

IDE cables for the drives, although most drives come with a cable.

www.newegg.com


incredible service, great selection. perhaps not the cheapest prices around, but you can trust them with every order, and they get it to you quick.

Most drives will *not* come with a cable if you're buying them online, the low priced drives are bare and don't come with anything but the drive. Most motherboards come with one IDE cable.

I buy most of my hardware from mwave.com, I haven't had a bad experience yet and i've bought at least 3 computers from them. newegg.com has good prices as well.



I hate to sound pessimistic, but if you've never built a PC before, it might be a better choice to buy a cheap dell and format the drive/install a clean copy of windows instead. You'll have a warranty and you won't have to deal with breaking the machine as you're putting it together. not that it's hard, some people need a little practice to get it right, especially the windows bit.

Oh come on dude, it's not like it's hard. I talked a complete newbie through it on the phone the other day. We're talking newbie so new he didn't know what a gigabyte is. But now he has a perfectly functioning system which he made himself.

I'll second Newegg. Their service is great and the prices are still cheaper, in most cases, than a place like Frys.

As for cables and stuff, as long as you don't buy the motherboard OEM you'll get all the cables you need. Most motherboards now come with onboad LAN and sound, so unless you're looking for something like an Audigy you won't need to buy a soundcard.

It's easier than putting together a lego model, but it's much less forgiving if you DO screw up. I don't know if MindFad has enough money to finance any screwups should he have them.
I definitely don't question MindFad's ability to *use* a computer, I love his icons. But some people weren't meant to touch hardware and break anything they touch,(once again, not to say that mindfad is among these people) and if he's a poor college student he might not want to take the gamble. Especially mac users, who aren't used to futzing around with hardware and BIOS settings to get things working nicely. All it takes is yanking out a PCI card while the power supply is connected to the wall to fry the motherboard. (99/100 times things will be fine, but some people just have all the luck and will break it all the time)

MindFad...

If you can, try to put two HDs into the system - it'll be more flexible.

Don't go thinking you'll get away with a CD-RW for backups - you'll never be regular enough with one of those. Make it a priority to pop a ZIP drive in there.

Sorry.. No idea what's good and bad in the PC hardware field these days.

Yeah. Know what you're saying but we're only really talking "don't touch the chips" and "don't put it somewhere it doesn't obviously fit", aren't we?

Having said that, my last PC purchase I couldn't be bothered to make my own so I just bought an IBM. So there is something in what you're saying. Depends on whether Mindfad wants the learning experience I guess.

Buy from NewEgg. They're real good. And do it yourself. You won't screw it up unless your a complete idiot. And you're not. Just make sure everything you buy is the right stuff. The right RAM, the right processor, and a beefy enough power supply. You can't screw up a CD or Hard Drive.

Oh, and don't forget the floppy. Yea, you still need one with a PC, and it's only $8.

If you're gonna have a cheap PC it doesn't have to look ugly.


(not all motherboards will fit in this small case. Not even the one I mention later. oops. Only 'micro-ATX' form factor and some smaller [mini-ITX] motherboards fit this case)

$32 + $15/shipping

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=11-161-005

PICTURES


Add a black keyboard, mouse, and flatpanel LCD ($230 for 15") - and you're all set.

Here's what I would buy in order to get a great performing system for the least cash possible. It'll be AthlonXP-based because that way it costs $90 to get the same performance as a $175 Pentium4. Motherboard prices are similar for AMD and Intel platforms.

If you fancy Intel hardware, I would suggest a name brand motherboard (Asus, Abit, MSI, ECS) using the most current chipset available, and for best value, a 533MHz FSB Pentium4 (a 2.53 or 2.66 "Northwood" core costs about $175). Just make sure the motherboard's chipset supports 800MHz FSB Pentium4 and you will be able to upgrade the CPU later. The same motherboard will support any 478pin Intel CPU from a 1.9GHz Celeron (avoid Celerons. they are living proof that megahertz truly don't matter. I know, I'm using one) all the way up to a 3+GHz Hyperthread Pentium4.

edit: somebody smack me. Ignore what I said about the 533FSB (2.53 & 2.66) Pentium4 being the best value. Obviously, for the same $175 I'd be pimpin' the 800MHz FSB 2.6GHz Hyperthread P4. doh. This is a tremendously compelling reason to opt for the Intel P4 platform over the AMD XP. While I'm sure AMD offers something just as potent as a 800MHz HT Pentium4 - it won't be an incredible value (like it used to be) and it won't be anything near as cool as having 2 CPUs showing in your task manager window (for multiprocessor support you need WinXP Pro, not the Home edition. Win2000, NT and linux are ok, too, but don't quote me on that). Aw, hell. Just get a HT P4 instead of an AthlonXP. I would. In fact, I think I'm about to order me a 2.6 HT. drool. Whatever you do, don't spend $400 for the 3.2 HT. In six months it probably won't be worth 75 bucks. Instead, spend $175 on the 2.6 HT...then wait six months and upgrade it to a $175 3.8 HT, or whatever. In the meantime, it looks like the 2.6 will reliably run at over 3GHz. Now that's good value. The AthlonXP is no slouch, don't misunderstand me. I love 'em to death. It's the hands-down CPU of choice for low and mid range PCs. More performance for half the price. But when you move to the highest-speed CPUs, AMD's value is no longer as great. Yeah, the performance of the Athlon is right there alongside the fastest from Intel, but so is the price, unfortunately. By the way, check out the prices of Athlon64 motherboards and CPUs. Dirt cheap, huh? Affordable, even. The Athlon64 ain't competing with the expensive Itanium2, don't forget. Heck, I'm not sure what it's competing against. Nothing I can see. 'cept maybe the PPC970

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=19-116-159

You could step down from a 333MHz FSB Barton core AthlonXP, to one with 266MHz FSB - but you won't save much money...maybe $25. So don't go there.

Here's what I would put inside that rather tasteful-looking black case. and I would get it all from Newegg.com. Free shipping on all the items listed:

A decent power supply. ANTEC SMART POWER 330W

Reviews proclaim its silence and clean power. $55

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=17-103-906

A good quality BLACK optical drive

Lite On Black 48x24x48x16 CDROM/CDRW/DVD Combo Drive LTC-48161H

$54

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=27-106-196


A fast hard drive..

WESTERN DIGITAL "SPECIAL EDITION" 80GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE

$77.50

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=22-144-122


Half a gig of RAM.

KingMax DDR memory 256MB PC3200

$84 (2 x $42) The nForce2 chipset can do cool tricks when you use a pair of DIMMs.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=20-156-002


A feature-packed motherboard. You can spend more and get gigabit ethernet, onboard SATA, onboard VGA, Firewire, etc. This one only has 6 channel audio and 10/100 LAN. SATA offers no real improvement and gigabit networks are rare. Suck up and spend the $30 later for a PCI-based solution if it becomes necessary. There are 5 PCI slots for expansion.

ASUS Model# A7N8X-X Retail

$73

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=13-131-468

And lastly, a CPU

AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ "Barton" 333 FSB

$90 incl heatsink/fan

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=19-103-379



I think that'll be everything you need except a video card and an operating system. All the cables and screws should be included. Video cards vary widely in price. Anywhere from $40 to $499. Pick the one that's right for the job. Choose a name brand to avoid future problems arising from lack of (or infrequent) driver updates.

Total cost of the items mentioned above comes to $465.48

The only shipping cost was $15 for the case. So you hafta add that to the $465.48

California and New Jersey residents must pay sales tax.

A really good video card can be had for about $150.

With a rig like that, nobody would laugh at you.

PS, note 3yr warranty on the WD "Special Edition" hard drives. That's WAY better than the 1yr warranty offered by everyone else. Also note the CPU is "retail", not OEM. This means it comes with a longer warranty (3yr, I think) and heatsink/fan assembly.

PPS, Newegg uses FedEx shipping and it gets to you in 2 days, 3 at most.

PPPS, OEM means you get the product in a white unlabeled box - and almost always WITHOUT cables, manuals, or driver CD. Except for CPUs, warranties for OEM products are typically the same as retail, however. "Retail" hardware is shipped in colorful "retail" packaging and includes all manuals, cables, and driver CDs - along with bonus software, in most cases.

edit yet again:

If your budget allows, go ahead and spend the extra $50-$75 for a motherboard with every possible onboard feature. Certain hardware performs better when integrated on the motherboard. Mass storage controllers (IDE, RAID, SATA, SCSI) and gigabit ethernet can benefit from NOT having to reside on the PCI bus if the chipset can directly support the hardware via the (much faster) system bus. Even if there's no performance benefit in having onboard (integrated) hardware, there's certainly a cost benefit. That $30 PCI SATA card uses a $9 controller chip, a printed circuit board, and hardware to integrate it with the PCI bus. The same SATA capability can be added to a motherboard for just the cost of the $9 chip. So load up on integrated features if you think you might need 'em later.

If you have an even bigger budget, buy a second hard drive and connect the pair to a integrated RAID 0 controller. That's a very popular feature found on high-end motherboards. Most motherboards with onboard SATA will include an 'old fashioned' PATA interface, too. No need for SATA hard drives. Unless you want them. Also, most motherboards that have SATA will offer some sort of RAID features. Striping, at least. "Promise" controller chips are extremely common and offer these cool, but not often used features.

^^^ LISTEN TO HIM. I would of posted the same information.

Keep an eye on FatWallet

Usually there are great combo deals that you can buy or cheap video cards from obscure dealers, etc.

Just search, theres always a deal for something.

I'll throw in another recommendation for NewEgg. Also, to start you off, go to ArsTechnica to do some research into what components are good and how to put it all together.

Here are some recommendations I can offer as I've built a PC once as well:

AMD processors are better than Intel's processors price-wise. There's a nice explanation at Ars Technica.

Compare those prices to Intel's. It'll be a minimum of $116 for a Pentium 4, and that's assuming you go with the low end 1.8 GHz model. Faster ones are quite a bit more expensive. Their clock speed may be higher than an AMD, but we know as Mac users that clock speed isn't everything!

IDE cables are included with the motherboard. You can go with a cheap motherboard if you want, but the motherboard is important. A lot of PC manufacturers save most of their money by going with the cheapest, worst motherboard available. There are various features you may want - built in ethernet, onboard video (if you won't be doing gaming, that is), USB 2.0, good integrated sound, AGP 4x vs. 8x, overclocking ability, and so on.

It's funny... I love speccing out PCs and looking for all the best components to meet a certain price while still maintaining quality and style. But I don't actually like PCs. They're no fun to use, just to make. So good luck making yours, I think it'll be a positive experience. I had never built a PC before myself and it wasn't too hard.

One more thing....


If you plan to run Linux - make sure the hardware you buy has Linux drivers available. Stick with popular widely-used brands and you'll be OK.

It's amazing what's supported in Linux...and it's even more amazing when you find out what isn't.

As a rule of thumb, whatever hardware really kicked ass last year will enjoy current (and thorough) Linux support today.


In my "suggested system" in the post above I placed 'upgradeability' at the top of the list, then 'cost', and finally 'performance'.

'Upgradeability' is a crapshoot, really. The next Athlon may not even fit the ZIF socket your 'Barton' does. Same is true of Intel's Pentium4. Still, there's room to upgrade within the current offerings unless you start with the fastest available CPU.

I like Shuttle cases, take a look at these.

SN85G4
SK41G
SS40G

I am considering building a PC for encoding, I started a thread here http://forums.macnn.com/showthread....hreadid=187812. I have the specs I am considering http://homepage.mac.com/comp.pdf. Any comments on specs on help on my thread would be greatly appreciated.

When I was looking in to this stuff a while ago, a friend of mine recommended Googlegear (now ZipZoomFly).

I can't honestly vouch for them myself beyond saying I knew this guy IRL, and I trust his judgment.

BlackGriffen

That was going to be my first suggestions as well, but - Ca$h, who lit the fuse on your tampon?? I didn't find anything offensive about MiniFad's post.

I ordered a few things through Google Gear when I put together my PC, and would recommend them. Good communication, fast shipping, good packaging and no other complaints!

NewEgg is your best friend, btw.

He deleted my posts at the BBQ because he likes masturbating to gamecube gaymes. Basically, he pissed me off.

- Ca$h

Oh poor baby.

Maybe people wouldn't treat you like that if you didn't act like a complete ****tard.

There's absolutely no benefit to building your own PC if your budget is under $500. It's difficult to compete with $399 bargain-basement Dells in the build-it-yourself department. Sure, you can build a complete PC for under $400, but it'll suck...much like the $400 Dell, and worse because you'll be shelling out an extra $100 for the OS that was included with the price of the Dell.

You can download Redhat for free. Try that for about a week and you'll be begging for somebody to take your $169 and give you WindowsXP Pro.

A blue screen of death on your Dell is nothing to get alarmed about.

A blue screen of death on your hand-assembled bleeding-edge gaming PC is a reason to hunt down and kill the geek at nVidia whose hack-ass ******** Detonator driver is referenced in the BSOD text. It's a personal thing. Nobody is ever allowed to harm your home-built PC. Or get near it. To install Bonzi Buddy on somebody's home-built machine is to invite death. No. To welcome death with open arms. It's a "pride in ownership" thing. Like owning a Harley. or something. I dunno.

The real beauty of building your own PC lies in the fact that you can get high-quality hardware for less than the cost of pre-assembled PCs. Trust me, you can't get cheap parts as cheap as Dell gets them. You want 1, Dell wants 435,500 of them. Guess who pays less for that part.

If you want the very best PC, you almost HAVE TO build it yourself. There are very few retailers that offer fully-assembled truly high-end machines. None of the top names like HP, Dell, or IBM have desktop machines that can compete with a home-built PC assembled with leading-edge hardware. Six months before you see it on a Dell, you'll see it available on the hobbyist retail market. Hell, I've had USB2, gigE, Firewire, and SATA since this time last year. All courtesy of a $65 refurb ASUS P4 motherboard from Newegg.

But anyways. I could write a book on building PCs. and fixing them. and fixing my friend's and co-workers and family's machines. and all their acquaintances machines, naturally. It's one of those things that's simple as hell to do - but looks frighteningly difficult to the uninitiated. Let's put it this way, I know plenty of rather ordinary 13 year olds that can spec-out and build a computer to fit any need. Gaming has done wonders for the build-it-yourself PC hardware market. All you need is a bunch of hormone-driven teenagers competing with one-another over FPS benchmarks and non-artifact antialiasing. All the hardware in PCs is interchangeable, upgradeable, and backward-compatible. Just pick a platform (Intel, AMD, Via), pick a form factor (ATX, micro-ATX, etc), and select which parts you need. The choice of CPU and RAM will be dictated by the requirements of the motherboard. The hard drive, video, audio, LAN, optical drive, etc aren't platform-specific (nor form-factor specific, generally).

I know this kid who built his own peecee for the sole purpose of playing Soldier of Fortune. He completely stripped Windows down to nothing but TCP/IP, openGL, and kernel32. Just kidding, but seriously, nothing was functional. The desktop didn't redraw itself without a manual refresh. Not even the taskbar clock updated.

I don't know jack about online first-person-shooter games, other than how to kick your ass, I mean. But this kid knew every trick and took every advantage. He showed me the effects of his custom-made "autoexec" file. To hell with textures and lightmaps and realism! Those things are detrimental to framerates and distracting to gameplay. All I saw were basic skeletal outlines of buildings and terrain and soon-to-be victims of this kid's gaming efficiency. The muzzle flash from his weapon was minimized with a hack to "autoexec" - whatever that is - in order to maintain his stealth. While he claimed it's niether fun nor sporting, he showed me the result of "Aimbot". Just like the Marines, you can simultaneously engage dozens of independent targets with pinpoint accuracy. Your rate of kill is bottlenecked only by your ability to click the right mouse button. No. Wait. It's got an automatic-fire mode. Targets are engaged as soon as they appear in the field of view. No need to click anything.

Until then, I'd never seen a custom-built application-specific computer outside of NASA.

What I'd like to know, is how can you possibly build one INCORRECTLY. I mean, the parts only fit together one way. IDE cables go into IDE sockets, the ram goes into the ram sockets, etc etc etc etc. I don't really see how you could possibly **** it up. Unless of course you were a fatass who did nothing but play gamecube all day... then I could see how it might be challenging.

- Ca$h

^^

exactly.

Ah, assumptions fly when one is silent, especially when your body is large and you play purple video game consoles for a living. LolOlolOloL

Anyhow, thanks a ton for all of the info, guys, even from the child-brained douche.

I found this to be what I thought was a good deal: http://www.bzboyz.com/store/product318.html What I *thought* to be a good deal. Athlon XP 2800+ and what looks to be a decent mobo all around (plenty of PCI. expansion, etc. I would need).

For cases, my friend already fell in love with and bought this: http://www.xpcases.com/shop/item.asp?CatID=&Sku=439 Would that mobo even fit that? I didn't see anything really intuitively telling about sizes. Maybe I missed something.

As for putting everything together, that is the easy part. I just wasn't sure where to get everything for the best prices, and about motherboard sizes. For example, that mobo right there says it is an ATX form factor�so does that mean it will fit any case that supports ATX, or are there different sizes to ATX? I assume, because I know there are very tall cases and smaller ones.

Also, it will be running Windows. His will be for gaming, mine will be for 3-D schoolwork (3DSM, maybe Maya) and gaming.

Thanks again, guys! (Spliff is the man.)

Nice case.

I saw the same one at Newegg while I was browsing them earlier. Seems like they had several colors - and it seems like the price was less. Don't feel like looking for it again to tell you the truth. There are several hundred different cases at newegg. Browse all cases, then sort by price. Start with the $50 models and then work backward. I never looked at any cases over fifty bucks - and I know I saw that same case.

Yep. Any ATX motherboard should fit into any ATX case. When you see a prefix added to 'ATX' - 'micro-ATX', for example, it's a different size than the plain ol' 'ATX'. A small micro-ATX case won't hold a big ATX motherboard, but a big ATX case will hold a small micro-ATX motherboard.

ATX-size cases are by far the most common, because ATX-size motherboards are by far the most common. They come in many different varieties; Tower, Mid-Tower, Mini-Tower, desktop. The only difference in the tower models is the number of drive bays.

'micro-ATX' cases are typically half the dimensions of ATX cases. Usually there will be room for only one optical drive (sometimes mounted sideways to save width) and one hard drive.

I don't know what the initials 'ATX' stand for. Maybe somebody else does. I do know the whole PC world still revolves around standards based on a a decade-old IBM PC/AT.

The next generation of peecee hardware will be more compact in size. Something along the lines of 'mini-ITX' using a 6" x 6" motherboard. Like those Shuttle cases.

oh yeah. here's a nice power supply comparison. The lesson: Don't trust the advertised output rating of power supplies.

"THG took a close look at 13 power supplies rated higher than 400 Watts. The test showed that lines supplying the system with +3.3, +5 and +12 Volt lines generated, on average, 20 Watts less overall power than was promised by the product name or product branding."

http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/index.html

Love that case, dude, looks similar in design to the one I have up in my room. Hope all goes well for ya!