Another one that can't read. Great.





Our mind is an incredible thing. We can barely grasp its power. Do not doubt that our eyes and our ears (etc) are our only senses.

Do not doubt our inert abilities to recreate a scene with excruciating detail; nor our ability to convince ourselves of things that may not have happened.

"I saw nurses walking in and out". That's hardly a revelation.

"I saw him use this tool". Nor that.

What do you have to go on, really? Have you done any research on this? And if so, while your conclusion is obvious... have you looked at all the possible *logical* explanations?

I, too, would be interested in any research you might've done.

And she is just one of many that has.


There have been MANY studies. We don't know what causes it. I have looked them up.

We have the ability to picture ourselves in the third person; what is so uncanny about this happening while a person is unconscious?

With no effort at all I'm sure you could picture yourself lying on the road, from a camera above, a crowd enveloping you.

Don't doubt that your mind could register the fact that you've just been hit by a car, and continue on its merry way trying to figure out the sequence of events to come, given its loss of communication with its senses (and even the conscious mind).

That's strange; would you happen to have any links?

I don't doubt its ability, I'd just be interested in an explanation of just what it is, if it was a dream (random firing of synapses), then the pattern wouldn't be followed for every "out-of-body experience." I wonder if there is a small part of the brain responsible for this specific behavior when we near death (and the end of brain activity).

Every single day around the world there are scientists making discoveries and saying "Huh, we never would have predicted that." Some of these are publicized widely, such as the recent CNN article about the inexplicable change in the earth's rotation.

Science has not gone the way its adherents wished. You think it's somehow relieving to know that a cell in your left eye may be sharing an electron with a bit of rock in Saturn's ring? No...it's a freakin' pain in the a$$! Reality has the scientists all scratching their heads because the answers are not so apparent as we wish.

Enter the pseudo intellectual rationalist who enjoys propping his ego up on 10 year old textbooks and an Amazing Randi newsletter. Your average know-it-all materialist with a decent IQ and no clue will insist to his dying breath his points are more valid than anyone's faith.

If that's not faith, what is? Yes there are stupid people in the world. Yes, you may be bright. But get over it. Reality's bigger than your 3 1/2 pound melon will ever get a grip of. The conclusions of yesterday are the heresies of tomorrow. Yours are no exception.


wolfen

Ah the classic Cipher reply. When people question his "knowledge" he starts personally attacking. *Snoooree*

I was replying to this post. Particularly the first part



Nice way of trying to add a jab in there out of dishonesty Cipher.

My point still stands.

LOL! SO you have the ability to have faith to believe in this, but are totally discounting us having a soul?

Or are you saying "I really don't know ZImphire, it could be anything. We could have a soul, we just don't know"
Nonsense. If you see things that DID INDEED happening in a OR room WHILE YOU were not conscience I would call that pretty amazing.

ANd it has happened alot. And we DON'T kNOW WHY or HOW.


Yes, i have done tons of research on it. I have read many books on the matter. I have read MANY explanations. They all come to the conclusion to, we don't really know. We know IT IS happening, we just don't know WHY, or HOW.

The problem Cipher is having is, he is making this out to be a dream, something we are making up in our minds.

These are not dreams. These people are viewing things that are happening to them at the time. Things Doctors and their staff say indeed these things were happening.

Patients describes proceeders that went on that they had NO PRIOR knowledge of before. Proceeders that took place while they were under.

That isn't our mind making up dreams. Sorry.

Some people have problems with things their religion (Science) can't explain.

okay, then you explaine. what is doing the seeing? where do these images come from?

there are absolutely no studies which have proven that something like an "individual" soul exists.

why? - because it's our bodies that make us "individuals", "soul" is what unites us all! [/metaphorical explanation]

He already said he's read many studies and nothing explains it yet. Now what are you talking aobut with this whole uniting soul thing?

I never said there was studies that say the soul exists. Cipher said there was nothing for us to believe it does. I showed him where indeed there was.

I can give you a OPINION as to what I think it is, but I think you know that already.


Well that is your personal belief. One that is also based on faith.

how do you know that they weren't just making these things up, - that indeed, it was their minds producing these pictures?

just my personal belief!

Patient under says they claim to have been awake above watching everything that went on. Patient then tells doctors about what he saw. Patentient goes on to explain medical procedures and devices that was being used that patient had no clue of.

Doctor listens to patients story. What patient said went on, went on to the T.

I am not just talking about medical procedures. I am talking about what was being said as well.

So to say these happenings are just a result of our minds producing dreams is a bit far fetched. It would take just as much faith to believe in that, than it would that we actually have souls.

yeah, but how do you know this is true?

and why aren't these "experiments" reproduceable at will? i mean, if this really happened, it would be easy to prove...

They are reproducible, but not easily; it happens all the time...I'm not sure what you're asking proof of.

There are several studies about pilots having out of body experiences, I looked it up on Google and found several studies too. I also saw a show about it, where the pilots were in the machine to test g force on the human body. Their estimate was that the brain stayed a few seconds behind in translating what was happening in "real time", thus causing the eyes to see from behind.

Pretty strange stuff.

bullshyt! what do you mean "not easily"? they're not repreduceable at all (at will). otherwise you would have thousands of scientists trying to find out about the "how" at the moment.

but, just like with ufo sightings, there's never a camera team around (long enough) to document these events. very strange...