Thread

The Mac vs. PC post to end all Mac vs. PC posts

· Software · 45 posts · Jul 24, 2004 — Jul 26, 2004 View original thread ↗

#1 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:05

Mac users are die hard fans who hate everything Microsoft. The rest of the world just looks at the Mac fans like they're a bunch of nutjobs. And then Mac fans get so defensive...

You can view the problem in any way you want, but you have to realize that this stupid battle is finally nearing an end. Everything must be viewed in a somewhat larger time frame. 50 years ago, MacDonald's was a single burger joint in southern california serving great quality burgers at a reasonable price. Now they're a huge global presence selling burgers even cheaper that are full of low quality beef, soy beans, and artificial flavoring. In another 50 years they'll probably have filed chapter 11 all the time wondering what went wrong. Basically, if you lower quality you will be replaced by smarter competitors.

What does microsoft actually have? They sell an operating system. It's not particularly special. Apple sells one. Linux is a free one. They all work. Only linux is free, OS X is $99, and Windows $300. 10 years from now no one will pay for an operating system anymore than they pay for a web browser now. Free software is becoming as good as commercial grade stuff. At best I predict people might get away with selling a GUI which runs on top of the operating system. At anyrate binary distributions will be a thing of the past.

Next Microsoft has Office! ooohhhh ahhhh. Word is a damn text editor. OpenOffice is almost equally as good but it's not $300. How will microsoft make a better word to keep competitive? Add more stupid animations in the corner?

Even today many corporations are making the switch to linux. You just can't beat free, (or at least real cheap. ie. Red Hat Enterprise) Even apple will have to eventually bite the bullet and sent it's operating system the way of quicktime and iTunes. All-platform free software thats sets people up to buy their hardware(iPods) and download their msuic at cost.

Microsoft is not a sustainable business. They will have to continually lower prices to fend off free software which will inevitably lead to layoffs and scandals.

Apple sells some great hardware. They even have a top-rate operating system. Mark my words though. by 2014, apple's operating system will be free and cross platform, and they will still be a force in computing hardware. Microsoft will be in dire straits, and most software will be released as encrypted source code to be build during installation rather than have these inane binary distributions.

So stop your yacking and watch the show.

#2 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:18

Quote:

Mac users are die hard fans who hate everything Microsoft.

No they aren't.

Quote:

The rest of the world just looks at the Mac fans like they're a bunch of nutjobs.

No they don't.

Quote:

Word is a damn text editor. OpenOffice is almost equally as good but it's not $300.

No it isn't.

+1

#3 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:20

Quote:

Originally posted by EMC:
10 years from now no one will pay for an operating system anymore than they pay for a web browser now.

I disagree

Quote:

Microsoft is not a sustainable business. They will have to continually lower prices to fend off free software which will inevitably lead to layoffs and scandals.

Honestly, do you really see Microsoft failing anytime soon? They have so much capital, and their hands in many different markets. They arn't going anywhere...

Quote:

Apple sells some great hardware. They even have a top-rate operating system. Mark my words though. by 2014, apple's operating system will be free and cross platform, and they will still be a force in computing hardware. Microsoft will be in dire straits, and most software will be released as encrypted source code to be build during installation rather than have these inane binary distributions.

you're dreaming man

#4 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:21

Quote:

Originally posted by EMC:
Mac users are die hard fans who hate everything Microsoft. The rest of the world just looks at the Mac fans like they're a bunch of nutjobs. And then Mac fans get so defensive...

You can view the problem in any way you want, but you have to realize that this stupid battle is finally nearing an end. Everything must be viewed in a somewhat larger time frame. 50 years ago, MacDonald's was a single burger joint in southern california serving great quality burgers at a reasonable price. Now they're a huge global presence selling burgers even cheaper that are full of low quality beef, soy beans, and artificial flavoring. In another 50 years they'll probably have filed chapter 11 all the time wondering what went wrong. Basically, if you lower quality you will be replaced by smarter competitors.

What does microsoft actually have? They sell an operating system. It's not particularly special. Apple sells one. Linux is a free one. They all work. Only linux is free, OS X is $99, and Windows $300. 10 years from now no one will pay for an operating system anymore than they pay for a web browser now. Free software is becoming as good as commercial grade stuff. At best I predict people might get away with selling a GUI which runs on top of the operating system. At anyrate binary distributions will be a thing of the past.

Next Microsoft has Office! ooohhhh ahhhh. Word is a damn text editor. OpenOffice is almost equally as good but it's not $300. How will microsoft make a better word to keep competitive? Add more stupid animations in the corner?

Even today many corporations are making the switch to linux. You just can't beat free, (or at least real cheap. ie. Red Hat Enterprise) Even apple will have to eventually bite the bullet and sent it's operating system the way of quicktime and iTunes. All-platform free software thats sets people up to buy their hardware(iPods) and download their msuic at cost.

Microsoft is not a sustainable business. They will have to continually lower prices to fend off free software which will inevitably lead to layoffs and scandals.

Apple sells some great hardware. They even have a top-rate operating system. Mark my words though. by 2014, apple's operating system will be free and cross platform, and they will still be a force in computing hardware. Microsoft will be in dire straits, and most software will be released as encrypted source code to be build during installation rather than have these inane binary distributions.

So stop your yacking and watch the show.

Free software is not as good as commercial software. It doesn't even come close. Linux can't even lay a finger on Mac OS X. Web browsers are different, as they are not that complex. The GIMP, however, cannot touch Photoshop. OpenOffice cannot touch Office. Audacity cannot touch SoundForge. Bluefish isn't even comparable to Dreamweaver. Linux is just a shadow behind Mac OS X.

When you get paid, you make a better product. Open source software is great, but large open source products will never be up to par.

#5 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:23

#6 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:26

Quote:

Originally posted by tavilach:
Web browsers are different, as they are not that complex.

Really? They look damn complex!

#7 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:27

You're mixing (and I'm responding to tavilach) two different ideas - free and open source software. When you say free, do you mean free as in beer or free as in freedom? Open source generally means the later. In fact, darwin, the unix underpinnings of OS X, is open source. Yet OS X is commercial. Go figure.

Commercial software doesn't automatically make it better. Look at windows - a lot more open source review and they might have a better product.

Open source and commercial are not mutually exclusive. Otherwise, you wouldn't see companies like IBM supporting it so much.

So much more to say, but I'll let the discussion develop a little more first.

#8 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:28

Quote:

Originally posted by demograph68:
Really? They look damn complex!

Not in comparison to operating systems, Photoshop, etc.

#9 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoser777:
You're mixing (and I'm responding to tavilach) to different ideas - free and open source software. When you say free, do you mean free as in beer or free as in freedom? Open source generally means the later. In fact, darwin, the unix underpinnings of OS X, is open source. Yet OS X is commercial. Go figure.

Commercial software doesn't automatically make it better. Look at windows - a lot more open source review and they might have a better product.

Open source and commercial are not mutually exclusive. Otherwise, you wouldn't see companies like IBM supporting it so much.

So much more to say, but I'll let the discussion develop a little more first.

I was only talking about open source software. Freeware just sucks

. Open source is far better than your typical free software, but it's still not up to par.

Windows doesn't count as commercial software. It's just a BSOD in disguise.

Edit: Oops...double post...

#10 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:32

Visions of the future never pan out. Remember all those people in the 40s and 50s who said that we would be driving flying cars, eating dehydrated food, living on the moon, etc? Guess what? We aren't.

For the most part, open source software if more trouble than it is worth. You have hundreds or thousands of programmers, who all have different experience and different ways of doing things, working on a single code base. This results in a muddy, confusing source. Also, we (many of us) live in a capitalist society. Money is a driving force behind almost everything. If someone is getting paid to program, they are much more likely to take the initiative to make the product better.

#11 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:35

Quote:

Originally posted by tavilach:
Web browsers are different, as they are not that complex.

You don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

#12 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:38

Quote:

Originally posted by DeathMan:
You don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

You are misunderstanding me. I know how complex the source for say, Mozilla is. It still is not the same as a program like Photoshop, or an operating system. Furthermore, the competition is free...so it's not that hard to make something that rivals the competition (Mozilla vs. IE). If IE were to cost money, I'm sure that it might be a hell of a lot better than Mozilla (if Microsoft actually did something with it). If Safari were to cost money, it too would be far better than Mozilla. At its current state, they're pretty close...

I guess I didn't state what I meant. It's not that web browsers aren't complex. It's just different.

...don't take me for an idiot who just looks at the screen, sees that a web browser is just a little window, and assumes that the code is simple. That has nothing to do with it.

#13 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:46

Then why aren't Opera, OmniWeb, etc vastly superior browsers?

Because you're talking out of the wrong end of your body. It's not the money that makes great programs. It's a smart development process with good developers. They can either be paid for their work or simply believe in it. Money is a great motivator, but it was be short sighted to think it is the best/only sucessful one.

#14 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Then why aren't Opera, OmniWeb, etc vastly superior browsers?

Because you're talking out of the wrong end of your body. It's not the money that makes great programs. It's a smart development process with good developers. They can either be paid for their work or simply believe in it. Money is a great motivator, but it was be short sighted to think it is the best/only sucessful one.

You got me

.

I do believe, though, that commercial products are more likely to be successful. Does that make more sense?

#15 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:52

....so much for it ending all mac vs pc posts...

#16 Sat, 24 Jul 2004 - 23:55

Quote:

It's easy to sit here today and guess what the world will be like in 10 years. Which by the way isn't long from now. It's hard to say exactly what it will be like. I doubt it will be as you describe it.

One thing is for sure, EVERYTHING CHANGES.

If you want to have some fun, try to guess what the computing world will be like in 100 years. Now that would be interesting. I wonder. What will the computing world be like then.

Who would have guessed back in 1976 that so many people in 2004 would have a Supercomputer on their desktop.

Heck, look at the Palm Pilots of today. One in paticular, the Sony TH55 is a great pda (computer). How does it's power compare with the first Macintosh?

In a hundred years, I suspect that we will have minature computers that we can jack into our brains. We will all be jacked in and networked. Hmmmm, that could be scary. Kindof Borg like. Hmmm, no wonder Gates wants to control the world. He has plans.

#17 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 00:17

Wow! I was just writing a Mac vs. PC post, when all of a sudden it ended. Poof. Gone. I wasn't sure what was going on until I saw this thread, this beacon of insight and wisdom in the middle of a dark, troll-filled haze. Thank you, great Original Poster! Thank you for showing us the light!

+1

#18 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 00:20

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!

<running in circle>

The sky is falling, the sky is falling...

I honestly don't care for Microsoft, but they aren't going anywhere with IT clowns tossing money at them hand over fist.

Also, word sucks, but it sucks so much less then ANY version of OpenOffice... Also, you can hate it all you want, but once you join the real world, YOU GET OFFICE DOCUMENTS. It may not be right or cool or even fair, but it just is.

#19 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 00:44

Quote:

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Also, word sucks, but it sucks so much less than ANY version of OpenOffice...

You've been Than'd�.

#20 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 01:20

Quote:

Originally posted by EMC:
Only linux is free, OS X is $99, and Windows $300.

since when is OS X 99 bucks?

#21 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 01:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Zimphire:

You really need to add clueless guys wearing penguin and demon shirts.

#22 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 01:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Buckaroo:
It's easy to sit here today and guess what the world will be like in 10 years. Which by the way isn't long from now. It's hard to say exactly what it will be like. I doubt it will be as you describe it.

One thing is for sure, EVERYTHING CHANGES.

If you want to have some fun, try to guess what the computing world will be like in 100 years. Now that would be interesting. I wonder. What will the computing world be like then.

Who would have guessed back in 1976 that so many people in 2004 would have a Supercomputer on their desktop.

Heck, look at the Palm Pilots of today. One in paticular, the Sony TH55 is a great pda (computer). How does it's power compare with the first Macintosh?

In a hundred years, I suspect that we will have minature computers that we can jack into our brains. We will all be jacked in and networked. Hmmmm, that could be scary. Kindof Borg like. Hmmm, no wonder Gates wants to control the world. He has plans.

Hmm...I don't know if I agree with that. 100 years ago, in 1904, anything relating to computing was unheard of. In 100 years, 2104, there will probably be something else, unheard of in this day and age. I doubt that we'd have computers jacked into our heads...it's too "Matrix," and we can already imagine it. There will be things that we can't even imagine, you know? Of course, I could be wrong. Computing might be the final innovation to really alter people's lives. It's possible that computing encompasses all further changes that our society could ever undergo, and they'd simply change drastically (inserted into our brains, etc.). Perhaps this past 100 years has been full of innovation, and this pattern won't continue to the point that something revolutionizes society in the same way that computers have done with the present. I mean, nothing that great happened between 1300 and 1400...or 1500 and 1600. Well, we had plenty of Renaissances, but nothing changed society like computing. Anyway, I doubt that the next 100 years will be so sluggish. Quite frankly, until 2104, we'll never know.

Quote:

Originally posted by fireside:
since when is OS X 99 bucks?

Well, academic pricing is $69, and standard pricing is $129. The average: $99. There you go, Mr. Stolemyfaceasyoursig.

#23 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 02:04

Not counting tax, right?

#24 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 02:04

Quote:

Originally posted by demograph68:
Not counting tax, right?

You ruined my calculations!

#25 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 04:45

Quote:

Originally posted by tavilach:
Hmm...I don't know if I agree with that. 100 years ago, in 1904, anything relating to computing was unheard of. In 100 years, 2104, there will probably be something else, unheard of in this day and age. I doubt that we'd have computers jacked into our heads...it's too "Matrix," and we can already imagine it. There will be things that we can't even imagine, you know? Of course, I could be wrong. Computing might be the final innovation to really alter people's lives. It's possible that computing encompasses all further changes that our society could ever undergo, and they'd simply change drastically (inserted into our brains, etc.). Perhaps this past 100 years has been full of innovation, and this pattern won't continue to the point that something revolutionizes society in the same way that computers have done with the present. I mean, nothing that great happened between 1300 and 1400...or 1500 and 1600. Well, we had plenty of Renaissances, but nothing changed society like computing. Anyway, I doubt that the next 100 years will be so sluggish. Quite frankly, until 2104, we'll never know.

To be petty, 100 years ago they did talk about things relating to computing - just not in the sense we do today. The act of computation was there, but it was just done by people, named 'computers'.
The thing that could be said to start to resemble modern computing would be Babbages 'Difference Engine' - which, if I remember correctly was around the mid 1880's. I suppose tools like abbacus' etc don't really count - but they are an aid to computation, which is kinda all a computer really is.

As for the 'nothing great happened btween...' part: I'd say the birth of ocean travel, gun powder, the new world, and loads of other things I can't be bothered to write about were all pretty great, and not worthy of being merely brushed off in one sweeping statement.

Heh, I'm hungover - humour me

#26 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 04:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Book:
To be petty, 100 years ago they did talk about things relating to computing - just not in the sense we do today. The act of computation was there, but it was just done by people, named 'computers'.
The thing that could be said to start to resemble modern computing would be Babbages 'Difference Engine' - which, if I remember correctly was around the mid 1880's. I suppose tools like abbacus' etc don't really count - but they are an aid to computation, which is kinda all a computer really is.

As for the 'nothing great happened btween...' part: I'd say the birth of ocean travel, gun powder, the new world, and loads of other things I can't be bothered to write about were all pretty great, and not worthy of being merely brushed off in one sweeping statement.

Heh, I'm hungover - humour me

In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue

. That's not between 1300 and 1400, or 1500 and 1600

. As for gun powder, it was discovered in China in the 9th century. Ocean travel was invented thousands of years ago...

Oh, I see what you mean. Things that were invented between one century and another (i.e. everything...). Eh, you're right. There are probably a lot of very important things that were also invented between 1300 and 1400, and 1500 and 1600.

Still, note how there are so many important things, constantly invented. In 100 years, there will be something else...and it could easily have nothing to do with computing.

As for the mathematical stuff...well, when I say computing, I'm basically talking about the modern applications of computing. In other words...the internet, word processing...you know?

Hehe, I'm kind of tired, and have been tired for hours. Stuff is coming out of my behind, at a great speed than normal.

Tralala...

#27 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 05:18

Quote:

Originally posted by EMC:
Mac users are die hard fans who hate everything Microsoft. The rest of the world just looks at the Mac fans like they're a bunch of nutjobs.

They're just a loud minority, who no one gives a fyck about. There are Windows zealots who despise everything Apple, no one gives a fyck about them either.

It's irrelevant. You're dull. I think I can hear your Mum calling you.

#28 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 05:32

Computing is great and all, but let's also remember that many works of art - such as huge cathedrals, etc. - still stand solidly today, while some buildings conceived in a more computer-like way have collapsed: analogical intuition is just as important as digital reason! Especially for the future (r)evolutions of humanity...

#29 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 06:59

i just got my boss's dual g4 1 ghz and a lcd as part of the new tech upgrade atmy job

oh what was this thread about again?

#30 Sun, 25 Jul 2004 - 11:02

Quote:

Originally posted by tavilach:
Perhaps this past 100 years has been full of innovation, and this pattern won't continue to the point that something revolutionizes society in the same way that computers have done with the present. I mean, nothing that great happened between 1300 and 1400...or 1500 and 1600. Well, we had plenty of Renaissances, but nothing changed society like computing. Anyway, I doubt that the next 100 years will be so sluggish. Quite frankly, until 2104, we'll never know.

tavilach - you are in ignorant fool. Hate to break it to you, but there is one invention that has changed society even more than computers. It is called THE PRINTING PRESS and was invented by Johann Gutenberg in 1450.