Thread
Mac Plus and using a zip drive as a hard drive
Has anyone used a zip drive as a hard drive for a Mac Plus? I would be interested in hearing about people's experiences. Also, if you have a zip drive connected, can you successfully chain a second drive to the first? Ideally, I would like to use one as the boot drive and the second for data.
Thanks,
David
Thanks,
David
It works very well. And a zip is a more or less standard scsi device, so you can definitely add 6 more scsi devices on the chain. You just have to observe the termination and ID setting rules, as you would with any other scsi configuration.
I have one hooked up as the main boot volume for a Plus running 6.0.8. It's been powered up continuously for months and it runs great. The silence is particularly welcome, and 100MB is plenty of space for system 6 apps. When I bought my first Plus, I had a 65MB drive hooked up to it, and I thought I'd never fill that up.
I also have a 1GB drive connected to the bus, but it hardly ever gets turned on (noisy bearings).
I have one hooked up as the main boot volume for a Plus running 6.0.8. It's been powered up continuously for months and it runs great. The silence is particularly welcome, and 100MB is plenty of space for system 6 apps. When I bought my first Plus, I had a 65MB drive hooked up to it, and I thought I'd never fill that up.
I also have a 1GB drive connected to the bus, but it hardly ever gets turned on (noisy bearings).
I used to use a 230 MB Magneto-Optical drive as my primary drive for a Mac Plus, I lost confidence in ZIP after I had three (of five) drives acquire the "click of death" in a one-year span back in the mid '90s. I've been using ZIP more recently since one each of my B&W and beige G3s have internal ZIP drives, and I have been given three more ZIP drives over the years. (One SCSI, one "Plus" that can be either SCSI or Parallel, and one USB.)
Thanks. In fact, a zip drive would be almost ideal. It gives you the freedom to have multiple boot disks, each with a different configuration. I would probaby have one for 6.0.8 and one or 7.x.
Thanks!
David
Thanks!
David
If you can find a reliable zip drive, it makes a great 'HDD' for an older Mac. I love the fact that it's silent.
You are not limited to System 6 or 7.
See here for details about how to set it up: http://www.mac128.com/zip.html
Also, I routinely move ZIP disks between a MacBook running Tiger with a USB Zip drive and a Mac Plus with a SCSI Zip drive. OS X has eliminated the annoying habit of System 7, 8 & 9 from updating the 4.2 capable boot driver on the Zip disk. So you may freely interchange them.
See here for details about how to set it up: http://www.mac128.com/zip.html
Also, I routinely move ZIP disks between a MacBook running Tiger with a USB Zip drive and a Mac Plus with a SCSI Zip drive. OS X has eliminated the annoying habit of System 7, 8 & 9 from updating the 4.2 capable boot driver on the Zip disk. So you may freely interchange them.
It looks like that page is gone or there is a problem with the host's webserver.
Well, for the OP's Plus, he is.
Unless you're talking about pre-6...
I' m currently replacing the dead HD inside my Apple SC20 case by a Zip 100 drive I found in my brother's old Beige G3 that layed in the basement.
Not tested it yet, but it's sure a fine hard drive for a Mac Plus as it is silent and fit in the SC20 case, so I can maintain the vintage look ;-) .
When I finish I'll post some pictures.
Not tested it yet, but it's sure a fine hard drive for a Mac Plus as it is silent and fit in the SC20 case, so I can maintain the vintage look ;-) .
When I finish I'll post some pictures.
Weren't the Zip drives that came in G3s IDE, rather than SCSI? I know that some G3s shipped with SCSI CD-ROM drives, but i thought that all stock Beige G3 zip drives were IDE.
Yes Tom, I meant you can use a Zip 100 disk drive as a startup disk on a Plus for Systems 1.0 through 4.0 with no problems. (you mean your Mac Plus can't run OS 9? LOL)
Not sure what was up with the site, but it seems to be working fine now ...
See here for details about how to set it up: http://www.mac128.com/zip.html
Not sure what was up with the site, but it seems to be working fine now ...
See here for details about how to set it up: http://www.mac128.com/zip.html
Don't know about the other ones, but my brothers's G3 had a fine SCSI Zip drive ! It looks exactly like this (the picture is not mine) :
In fact the 50 pins conector makes impossible tu use the traditional Molex power conector, but I took the small one from the G3 to plug it inti the SC20 case.
Trying to boot Leopard on a Plus is very hard.
Actually to boot the plus with the zip drive you don't even need the zip drive driver. It wil recognise it as just any other SCSI device.
I use my mac plus with zip drive as HD constantly and it works great!
I use my mac plus with zip drive as HD constantly and it works great!
Could you explain me how you do this ? How do you choose which OS to boot from at startup ? Sorry if it's a silly question, but I'm jus a basic Mac user
As nahuelmarisi says, you don't need an INIT installed on the Zip itself (which wouldn't work on 1.0-4.0 anyway). But the Zip does need to be formatted with the 4.2 driver so the Plus can see it.
See http://www.mac128.com/zip.html for details.
One thing that needs to be said is that each System requires its own disk as you should not have more than one system on any disk. You can partition a Zip drive, but you will need additional software on a Plus to do it and to then choose the startup partition, since I don't believe Apple included such software until System 6. I may be wrong about that but I'm sure the knowledgeable folks here will correct me if so ...
See http://www.mac128.com/zip.html for details.
One thing that needs to be said is that each System requires its own disk as you should not have more than one system on any disk. You can partition a Zip drive, but you will need additional software on a Plus to do it and to then choose the startup partition, since I don't believe Apple included such software until System 6. I may be wrong about that but I'm sure the knowledgeable folks here will correct me if so ...
System Switcher (swap between System 6 and 7) was available from Apple as an unsupported developer download from the early 1990s. It allowed installation of System 6 and 7 on a single disk partition. I am not aware of anything before that date.
My notes on the Zip are different to those from Mac128, but you shold read both. Use whatever suits you.
My notes, sorted after a file transfer mess up: http://www.vintagemacworld.com/pluszip.html
My notes on the Zip are different to those from Mac128, but you shold read both. Use whatever suits you.
My notes, sorted after a file transfer mess up: http://www.vintagemacworld.com/pluszip.html
Excellent tutorial Charlieman. I must admit I got a little lost during the Zip 250 thread.
As for my method, I would recommend it particularly if the Zip is your only hard drive connected to the Plus and you only use it to transfer files with OS X, which does not update the Zip disk driver (at least under Tiger).
Charlieman's method is much more universal particularly if you are going to use it with a wide range of systems, which would otherwise require the Iomega INIT to mount it.
As for running an older system, I would certainly expect Charlieman's method to work as well. s long as the Plus can "see" the disk at startup, it does not seem to care what system it loads from it. Which is particularly interesting in the case of System 1 through 2, since both pre-dated Apple's implementation of SCSI. Guess the ROM handles all the translating from the Finder which would have only been aware of IWM or serial bus disks at that time.
As for my method, I would recommend it particularly if the Zip is your only hard drive connected to the Plus and you only use it to transfer files with OS X, which does not update the Zip disk driver (at least under Tiger).
Charlieman's method is much more universal particularly if you are going to use it with a wide range of systems, which would otherwise require the Iomega INIT to mount it.
As for running an older system, I would certainly expect Charlieman's method to work as well. s long as the Plus can "see" the disk at startup, it does not seem to care what system it loads from it. Which is particularly interesting in the case of System 1 through 2, since both pre-dated Apple's implementation of SCSI. Guess the ROM handles all the translating from the Finder which would have only been aware of IWM or serial bus disks at that time.
Thank to both of you for your tutorials and explanations. :-*
Following them I reformated my Zip drive this morning from the Plus using Lido, and I should have everything working in a few days now. I'll post pictures and details then.
Following them I reformated my Zip drive this morning from the Plus using Lido, and I should have everything working in a few days now. I'll post pictures and details then.
Numero6 et autres: Si vous observent un problem...
If you spot a problem with the notes provided by Mac128 or me, please mail the relevant author. We are both interested in comments.
If you spot a problem with the notes provided by Mac128 or me, please mail the relevant author. We are both interested in comments.
Thank you everyone for the information. I will keep you posted with how it goes.
David
David
Ok, I'll check if a newbie like me in vintage Mac world can understand everything
.It seems that the answer is no, as I can't get the Plus to boot from the Zip diskette. In fact I first spent a few hours trying unsuccessfully to format the Zip ; Lido reported an "arbitration error". I finally removed the SCSI terminator (or whatever is its name) that ended the cable and it worked all right. I thought this piece was necesary as it came with the SC20 drive. When I connected the Zip to my Performa with the terminator on it didn't bother...
Now the Plus recognizes the Zip drive, but refuses to boot from the system I copied on it, although I followed your tutorial.
So far I have not succeeded in purchasing a Mac Plus. I am still trying. When I finally get one I will try out all of your suggestions. This is frustrating. I thought it would be easy to buy a used Plus from someone.
--David
--David
Don't give up just yet. If the Plus now recognizes the drive, you're halfway home.
If you boot off of another volume (like a floppy) are you able to read the contents of the zip disk reliably? If not, you may still be experiencing a termination issue, or that particular zip disk could be faulty. If you can read the contents fine, then you may wish to reinstall the system and try again.
It depends a lot on where you live, I guess. If you lived here in Silicon Valley, I'd happily hand you one of my spares, gratis.
tomlee59,
Thanks, but, no, I live in New York City. I now have a deal pending. We shall see if it goes through.
--David
Thanks, but, no, I live in New York City. I now have a deal pending. We shall see if it goes through.
--David
Don't worry I won't give up ! }
Booting from the floppy I can copy programs on the Zip and open them without trouble, so as you say I guess I'm close from resolving the startup problem.
numero6, I assume you used Charlieman's method using Lido to format the Zip disk you are having trouble with?
What happens when you try to boot? Does it just keep flashing the question mark? Or do you get the happy Mac before it hangs?
Try this: boot off a system floppy, insert the Lido formatted Zip, then erase it using the System Finder. Then copy the same good system you used to erase the Zip onto it from the floppy. Then try to boot up from the Zip. FYI, my Iomega formatted Zip is set to Termination:On ID:6. Insert the Zip before you turn on the Mac Plus.
Post your results.
P.S. There's also a slight possibility you have one of the frist two Plus ROM versions that may be causing a problem. See these:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=7333
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2000
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/hw/hw_11.html
The differences between the original and rev. 1 & 2 ROMs are (per info article instructions above):
1) 4D1E EExx
2) 4D1E EAxx
3) 4D1F 81xx
What happens when you try to boot? Does it just keep flashing the question mark? Or do you get the happy Mac before it hangs?
Try this: boot off a system floppy, insert the Lido formatted Zip, then erase it using the System Finder. Then copy the same good system you used to erase the Zip onto it from the floppy. Then try to boot up from the Zip. FYI, my Iomega formatted Zip is set to Termination:On ID:6. Insert the Zip before you turn on the Mac Plus.
Post your results.
P.S. There's also a slight possibility you have one of the frist two Plus ROM versions that may be causing a problem. See these:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=7333
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2000
http://developer.apple.com/technotes/hw/hw_11.html
The differences between the original and rev. 1 & 2 ROMs are (per info article instructions above):
1) 4D1E EExx
2) 4D1E EAxx
3) 4D1F 81xx
Yes, I first formated the drive with Lido, but couldn't boot from it. I have the blinking question mark. The procedure with Lido wasn't exactly as Charlieman explained : although my Plus has 4Mb Ram, I couldn't access the formating options. Otherwise as I already said the drive works all right.
Then I tried to erase the disk through the finder and reinstall the system, but the result was the same.
Then I tried another formating app, Blue Disc Manager, with the same result !
Now I'm going to see the ROM question you suggested. I've not entered my Plus in your database yet, but I know it's a "European Macintosh 128" made in Fremont in 1984.
Then I tried to erase the disk through the finder and reinstall the system, but the result was the same.
Then I tried another formating app, Blue Disc Manager, with the same result !
Now I'm going to see the ROM question you suggested. I've not entered my Plus in your database yet, but I know it's a "European Macintosh 128" made in Fremont in 1984.
Just a passing thought.
I remember seeing a control panel with Zip drives which had options of whether you wanted the drive to sleep or not.
Am I thinking of software which came with the later driver?
I remember seeing a control panel with Zip drives which had options of whether you wanted the drive to sleep or not.
Am I thinking of software which came with the later driver?