Thread
1ST Post!
Hello All, I just registered to become a member.
Anyways I was recently given a Quadra 840AV,
I know its old but I remember watching tv on it and is was perfect
Anyway I want to use it to record tv on and to watch recorded tv on a tv.(tv out)
I want to install Linux or Plan9 on the machine but Im not too clued up on the availability of a GUI within these OSes. Some help would be appreciated here. (The same goes for the AT&T DSP chip)
I can obtain a network adaptor (the things with BNC connectors on)
But I would like to have standard Ethernet networking on it. I am experienced with electronics so modding/making/hacking Isnt too beyond me. But yet again some help would be nice here too.
Thank you for your help
Awesome forum by the way!
MrMe01
Anyways I was recently given a Quadra 840AV,
I know its old but I remember watching tv on it and is was perfect
Anyway I want to use it to record tv on and to watch recorded tv on a tv.(tv out)
I want to install Linux or Plan9 on the machine but Im not too clued up on the availability of a GUI within these OSes. Some help would be appreciated here. (The same goes for the AT&T DSP chip)
I can obtain a network adaptor (the things with BNC connectors on)
But I would like to have standard Ethernet networking on it. I am experienced with electronics so modding/making/hacking Isnt too beyond me. But yet again some help would be nice here too.
Thank you for your help
Awesome forum by the way!
MrMe01
Welcome!
I can't help you with Linux I'm afraid, but I might hazard a guess that for using the AV in/out connectors you would probably be best using the Mac OS.
As for the network adaptor, there are AAUI to RJ-45 transceivers cheaply available for use with these machines. They are similar to the AAUI >> thin coax transceivers except they are more compatible with the modern standard. Some transceivers have both RJ-45 and coax connectors but these are more unusual. Alternatively you could install a NuBus ethernet card with an RJ-45 connector - again these are available cheaply. Some other members may even be able to provide you with them, (see the Trading Post forum).
I can't help you with Linux I'm afraid, but I might hazard a guess that for using the AV in/out connectors you would probably be best using the Mac OS.
As for the network adaptor, there are AAUI to RJ-45 transceivers cheaply available for use with these machines. They are similar to the AAUI >> thin coax transceivers except they are more compatible with the modern standard. Some transceivers have both RJ-45 and coax connectors but these are more unusual. Alternatively you could install a NuBus ethernet card with an RJ-45 connector - again these are available cheaply. Some other members may even be able to provide you with them, (see the Trading Post forum).
Back in the mid 90s I used a 660AV to do some video work. I'm fairly sure that recorded TV won't be at full 29.9 Fps, and the files may be quite large.
As far as linux - don't even think about it with a GUI... it just won't be useable. Stick with mac OS 7.6.1
As far as linux - don't even think about it with a GUI... it just won't be useable. Stick with mac OS 7.6.1
The 840AV's capture rates are (not surprisingly) dependent on several factors, such as amount of compression, level of hard disk fragmentation and the capture resolution. At a full 640x480, you can probably sustain 1-2fps with no post-compression, and perhaps double that with.
Capture rates roughly triple at each reduction in resolution, to 320x240, then to 160x120.
For short bursts, you can do much better, but you'll be limited by the amount of ram. Since you seem to be thinking of using it in RTV mode (Retro TiVo), I suggest 320x240 with post-compression. You might get about 10fps, which will be sort of watchable. If you don't mind postage-stamp sized video, you can do even better at 160x120. It might even permit you to record half-decent audio, too.
And you'll need a very, very big disk.
Capture rates roughly triple at each reduction in resolution, to 320x240, then to 160x120.
For short bursts, you can do much better, but you'll be limited by the amount of ram. Since you seem to be thinking of using it in RTV mode (Retro TiVo), I suggest 320x240 with post-compression. You might get about 10fps, which will be sort of watchable. If you don't mind postage-stamp sized video, you can do even better at 160x120. It might even permit you to record half-decent audio, too.
And you'll need a very, very big disk.
I'd almost suggest an 8500AV with a G3 upgrade to record at more than 15fps 320x240, or a beige G3...
If you are really serious about using the 840AV as a TiVo-like device, I think you'll quickly tire of the low quality. For capturing short clips for, say, a school project or website, it might do an adequate job. For anything more serious, though, you'll want a machine with more horsepower, as wood_e suggests.
The built in AV capabilities of the 840AV aren't going to give you what you're looking for. My recommendation is to get a hold of a SpigotPro AV - that'll give you a good frame rate at a reasonable resolution.
::edit - it's a SpigotPro AV, not a SpigotPower AV as I said.::
::edit - it's a SpigotPro AV, not a SpigotPower AV as I said.::
None of the A/V mac (68k nor ppc) were very good at delivering 640x480 video at 30fps, you needed 3rd party hardware to get the most out of them.
I have a Supermac SpigotProAV in my 840av and that helps things quite a bit.
I have a Supermac SpigotProAV in my 840av and that helps things quite a bit.
That's a nice widget -- it was quite pricey in its day!
Everything was quite pricey in its day, I got mine years ago for $15-20 NIB on ebay.
I don't often know the answers round here, but this time, like Unknown K, I do.
A stock 840av certainly can't do it, but the 840av will indeed record 30fps @ 640x480 — using hardware specifically designed to complement its native AV circuitry. One such piece of hardware is indeed the SpigotPower AV nubus card, one of a small number of cards designed for the unique DAV slot on the AV Macs.
I quote from some online source or other that came up while googling:
"SpigotPower AV Q&A
Q: What is SpigotPower AV, and with which Macs is it compatible?
A: SpigotPower AV is a video data compression/decompression card that is compatible with the Centris/Quadra 660AV and Quadra 840AV when using the Spigot AV 1.1 software (or the Spigot AV 1.1.1 software, not yet released as of this update) and QuickTime 2.0. It is also supported with the Power Mac 7100AV and 8100AV when using the SpigotPower AV 1.0 software and QuickTime 1.6.2. There is insufficient space in the Power Mac 6100 AV to install SpigotPower AV. SpigotPower AV compresses the data on the way in to get it down to a manageable level and decompresses it on the way back out. The result is smooth, 30 frames per second, 60-field video. SpigotPower AV is not recommended for use on Power Mac AV systems with QuickTime 2.0. Users may find that using either the Spigot AV 1.1 or 1.1.1 software with QuickTime 2.0 on PowerMac Systems may adequately meet their needs, but these configurations will remain unsupported. "
**
In fact, the cards were crap in the early ppcs, despite what the manufacturer's blurb says here, and they worked well only in the Quadras and Centris AV Macs.
I have one of these cards in my 840av. I run it under MacOS 8.1, with a later revision of the software (a Japanese developer updated the software after the US manufacturer went belly-up), and a higher Quicktime version, all with no trouble. I'd run it stock, under System 7 Pro, were it not for the fact that OS8.1 allows me to run a 2 x 9GB ultra-wide SCSI RAID (HFS+) in the machine, for 18GB of storage, controlled by a Nubus Jackhammer card.
A Quadra 840av can record full-frame video rather well in this configuration, and stack up a sizable Quicktime file without coughing. It was designed to have such "extreme" capability (for the time) by way of the installation of niche expansion options, and its nubus slots were especially speeded up to allow for maximum throughput for such usage.
Your 840av is "king of the Quadras" for reasons that relate to more than merely its 40MHz 68040 — but you'll need some add-ons. Now if only it had a proper L2 cache....
A stock 840av certainly can't do it, but the 840av will indeed record 30fps @ 640x480 — using hardware specifically designed to complement its native AV circuitry. One such piece of hardware is indeed the SpigotPower AV nubus card, one of a small number of cards designed for the unique DAV slot on the AV Macs.
I quote from some online source or other that came up while googling:
"SpigotPower AV Q&A
Q: What is SpigotPower AV, and with which Macs is it compatible?
A: SpigotPower AV is a video data compression/decompression card that is compatible with the Centris/Quadra 660AV and Quadra 840AV when using the Spigot AV 1.1 software (or the Spigot AV 1.1.1 software, not yet released as of this update) and QuickTime 2.0. It is also supported with the Power Mac 7100AV and 8100AV when using the SpigotPower AV 1.0 software and QuickTime 1.6.2. There is insufficient space in the Power Mac 6100 AV to install SpigotPower AV. SpigotPower AV compresses the data on the way in to get it down to a manageable level and decompresses it on the way back out. The result is smooth, 30 frames per second, 60-field video. SpigotPower AV is not recommended for use on Power Mac AV systems with QuickTime 2.0. Users may find that using either the Spigot AV 1.1 or 1.1.1 software with QuickTime 2.0 on PowerMac Systems may adequately meet their needs, but these configurations will remain unsupported. "
**
In fact, the cards were crap in the early ppcs, despite what the manufacturer's blurb says here, and they worked well only in the Quadras and Centris AV Macs.
I have one of these cards in my 840av. I run it under MacOS 8.1, with a later revision of the software (a Japanese developer updated the software after the US manufacturer went belly-up), and a higher Quicktime version, all with no trouble. I'd run it stock, under System 7 Pro, were it not for the fact that OS8.1 allows me to run a 2 x 9GB ultra-wide SCSI RAID (HFS+) in the machine, for 18GB of storage, controlled by a Nubus Jackhammer card.
A Quadra 840av can record full-frame video rather well in this configuration, and stack up a sizable Quicktime file without coughing. It was designed to have such "extreme" capability (for the time) by way of the installation of niche expansion options, and its nubus slots were especially speeded up to allow for maximum throughput for such usage.
Your 840av is "king of the Quadras" for reasons that relate to more than merely its 40MHz 68040 — but you'll need some add-ons. Now if only it had a proper L2 cache....
Wait a minute! Is it a SpigotPower AV card or a SpigotPro AV card? Unknown had me second guessing myself!
Congratulations on a mighty fine first conquest, and welcome to the fold.
The SpigotPro AV was the higher end product. That I don't have. Ho hum.Wait a minute! Is it a SpigotPower AV card or a SpigotPro AV card? Unknown had me second guessing myself!
Unfortunately the CD ROM just went west, a cloud of blue smoke. Took the thing apart and its fried. Holes in chips and a popped capacitor. Not good.
I'm not too sure about the availability of a replacement drive either
From what I read it isn't worth recording TV on the machine. No worries there as I have a Hauppauge Free view tuner with USB support for my pc.
My main plan for the box was to stream media from my PC over the network to the box, Using the AV out. I'm sure the hardware can do this but MacOS does not have the software for it. Hence I would like standard Ethernet networking and the ability to run the software I require to do this like VideoLAN or something similar.
I don't think the networking stack is up to scratch for streaming media either.
Please give me your insights into this.
MrMe01
I'm not too sure about the availability of a replacement drive either
From what I read it isn't worth recording TV on the machine. No worries there as I have a Hauppauge Free view tuner with USB support for my pc.
My main plan for the box was to stream media from my PC over the network to the box, Using the AV out. I'm sure the hardware can do this but MacOS does not have the software for it. Hence I would like standard Ethernet networking and the ability to run the software I require to do this like VideoLAN or something similar.
I don't think the networking stack is up to scratch for streaming media either.
Please give me your insights into this.
MrMe01
If memory serves me correctly your machine uses a SCSI CD-ROM drive, which should be easy to replace for relatively cheap. Also, about streaming video, one suggestion (this may not work, I've never tried something like this) would to do some sort of remote desktop, like VNC and play video through that.
krfkeith's memory is spot-on: it's indeed a scsi drive. Finding one should be very easy. Indeed, you might consider upgrading to a cd burner while you're at it.
VNC on a 68k mac will be brutal when playing video...
yeah, didnt think of that!
Right! Lack of "proper" networking. No way of installing another OS.
This isn't going well at all! :S
What could I use this for?
I have a perfectly adequate desktop machine 22" LCD et al.
I dont want to sell it or give it away, I want to give this machine a proper use.
Any suggestions?
MrMe01
PS I have the AudioVision14 display, Very good arrangement and the sound isn't too shabby but the resolution is dire.
Plus I Cant really afford to spend lots on this machine to get it to a usable level £15-25 at the most.
This isn't going well at all! :S
What could I use this for?
I have a perfectly adequate desktop machine 22" LCD et al.
I dont want to sell it or give it away, I want to give this machine a proper use.
Any suggestions?
MrMe01
PS I have the AudioVision14 display, Very good arrangement and the sound isn't too shabby but the resolution is dire.
Plus I Cant really afford to spend lots on this machine to get it to a usable level £15-25 at the most.
Very good idea!
Thankyou
MrMe01
Hey Mrmeo1
I joined 68kmla because I bought a Quadra 840av. That was ages ago.
The Quadra... it records music nicely for me.
The 840av was great cos I had my Atari ST plugged into the video, I had a digi box & I.....
well I just connected a Scart block the the av ports & could connect virtually any video device I liked. I got some reasonable video capture with the stock machine & using os 8.1.
What do you want to network with... Anyhow, I've just connected my Quadra 650 via ethernet (Q650-tranciever-ethernet cable-XP PC) to my xp pc & now I can surf the internet with the Quadra, the 840av would work in exactly the same way..... only be a bit faster.
Don't network & capture video at the same time cos it'll just slow the video capture horribly.
I joined 68kmla because I bought a Quadra 840av. That was ages ago.
The Quadra... it records music nicely for me.
The 840av was great cos I had my Atari ST plugged into the video, I had a digi box & I.....
well I just connected a Scart block the the av ports & could connect virtually any video device I liked. I got some reasonable video capture with the stock machine & using os 8.1.
What do you want to network with... Anyhow, I've just connected my Quadra 650 via ethernet (Q650-tranciever-ethernet cable-XP PC) to my xp pc & now I can surf the internet with the Quadra, the 840av would work in exactly the same way..... only be a bit faster.
Don't network & capture video at the same time cos it'll just slow the video capture horribly.
Just say this thread.
Welcome to the forums.
Nice score on a free Quadra 840AV. Those machines are awesome. I'd pay for one.
Welcome to the forums.
Nice score on a free Quadra 840AV. Those machines are awesome. I'd pay for one.
Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated! Also thanks for the warm welcome!
Anyway, my x1950 doesnt have TVout (its a crossfire master card)
I want to watch films and what not on my 20" "goldfish bowl" TV
I want to stream the media from my pc to the the quadra, witch will output it to the tv, Is the hardware (besides networking) up to the task?
I am waiting for a mouse atm, this thing keeps on falling apart on me
the mouse broke the other day. It was the single button affair.
I also remember (the friend who gave me the 840) networking over BNC. He put a BNC enabled PC network card in his machine then he used Basilisk on the pc and set up a network between the virtual mac and the quadra. If I got a BNC network card, could I share a harddisk on my pc and the quadra be able to see it? Just a plain as day network share?
Sorry about all the questions, but I am sure you guys will have the answers!
Regards,
Mark
Anyway, my x1950 doesnt have TVout (its a crossfire master card)
I want to watch films and what not on my 20" "goldfish bowl" TV
I want to stream the media from my pc to the the quadra, witch will output it to the tv, Is the hardware (besides networking) up to the task?
I am waiting for a mouse atm, this thing keeps on falling apart on me
the mouse broke the other day. It was the single button affair.
I also remember (the friend who gave me the 840) networking over BNC. He put a BNC enabled PC network card in his machine then he used Basilisk on the pc and set up a network between the virtual mac and the quadra. If I got a BNC network card, could I share a harddisk on my pc and the quadra be able to see it? Just a plain as day network share?
Sorry about all the questions, but I am sure you guys will have the answers!
Regards,
Mark
ahem! BUMP!
dont like being ignored *cries*
dont like being ignored *cries*