Thread
Video Card Troubles ?!?
I have a 450Mz PMG4 Sawtooth that seems to be very picky on the video cards it likes. I have an ATI R128 PCI card and ATI R128Pro that I can get it to boot with. I purchased a PC 9700Pro to flash. That didn't go well (using Graphicellerator). At one point I thought I got it to take the flash, but every time I boot with that card, I get nothing. It will boot with my PCI card, but doesn't show anything for the AGP card in ASP.
Then I found 3 Mac AGP cards for $25 on Craigslist and ended up with a card labeled MAC RADEON 9000, another card that appears identical, but is not identified and a long GeForce 4 marked card.
Installed the GeForce first (Ge4 Ti 4600!) and it booted right up. I found some 3.5.2 drivers for OS9 (which also work under 8.6). So, no problems here. (But are there OS X 10.4 drivers for it?)
Then I installed the MAC 9000 card. NOTHING. Wouldn't show any signs of lighting up the monitor. Pushed the CUDS, no dice. So, figured it might be bad and went to the next one.
The non-marked ATI card had the same result.
So, I put my ATI PCI card in next to one of the AGPs, like I had when I was messing with the 9700 and IT won't light the monitor either.
I tried zapping the PRAM, but it will not give me the second chime. So it seems to freeze.
Am I doing something wrong? Is the R9000 a 4x only card (I don't thing they are)?
Any suggestions on the R9000 or R9700 would be greatly appreciated
Then I found 3 Mac AGP cards for $25 on Craigslist and ended up with a card labeled MAC RADEON 9000, another card that appears identical, but is not identified and a long GeForce 4 marked card.
Installed the GeForce first (Ge4 Ti 4600!) and it booted right up. I found some 3.5.2 drivers for OS9 (which also work under 8.6). So, no problems here. (But are there OS X 10.4 drivers for it?)
Then I installed the MAC 9000 card. NOTHING. Wouldn't show any signs of lighting up the monitor. Pushed the CUDS, no dice. So, figured it might be bad and went to the next one.
The non-marked ATI card had the same result.
So, I put my ATI PCI card in next to one of the AGPs, like I had when I was messing with the 9700 and IT won't light the monitor either.
I tried zapping the PRAM, but it will not give me the second chime. So it seems to freeze.
Am I doing something wrong? Is the R9000 a 4x only card (I don't thing they are)?
Any suggestions on the R9000 or R9700 would be greatly appreciated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Disk_Image
just a quick refresher on these fileformats
"for the purposes of getting mac os 9 install files to newbies with only X installed..."
we often see .img + .dmg + .smi
but maybe some of us are uneducated on that these formats are actually different versions of the same thing
which is "apple disk images"
these are not seperate standards.. they are the same thing!!
creating an .img file on mac os 9 is very easy and can be done with the application "Disk Copy" from within the utilities folder under applications folder
creating a .dmg file on mac os x is very easy and can be done with "disk utility" from within the utilities folder under applications folder
whats the difference between these two formats? NOTHING!
except that .dmg files have more support for different filesystem formatting options
transfering files between x + 9 can be done MOST SAFELY + MOST EFFECTIVELY
by using this method.. creating .img on mac os 9 using disk copy and then transfering the .img file from mac os 9 to a mac os x disk
this encapsulates + retains all proper file meta data such as resource forks icons associations etc
going from 9 to X at least..
im not so sure this is possible to go backwards from .dmg on X to 9
i had made some post about a rare version of disk copy that was able to mount .dmg files on mac os 9
so i beleive it is possible to go backwards as well providing you have updated your disk copy version to this
rare + hard to find version
i think we found this file.... i will take a look and post a link to the other thread!
but i think it will work (mounting .dmg from X on mac os 9) as long as this .dmg file frm X is using a compatible file system (mac os standard or extended) (denoted above as ***)
but this would be the best and most safe way to transfer files NATIVELY between X + 9
this is the "apple version of stuffit"
this is why apple dropped stuffit from mac os x tiger because they wanted people to use disk images + not use stuffit anymore
^^ from the above article.. has anyone ever tried to make a disk copy .img file and actually move the file to another pc and change file to .iso + burn it?? it seems that .img .dmg .iso are all similar formats!!!!!!?? or has anyone tried to change a .toast file to a .img file (from 9) and click to mount (on x) ?
just a quick refresher on these fileformats
"for the purposes of getting mac os 9 install files to newbies with only X installed..."
we often see .img + .dmg + .smi
but maybe some of us are uneducated on that these formats are actually different versions of the same thing
which is "apple disk images"
these are not seperate standards.. they are the same thing!!
creating an .img file on mac os 9 is very easy and can be done with the application "Disk Copy" from within the utilities folder under applications folder
creating a .dmg file on mac os x is very easy and can be done with "disk utility" from within the utilities folder under applications folder
whats the difference between these two formats? NOTHING!
except that .dmg files have more support for different filesystem formatting options
Quote
What's the difference between .img and .dmg disk images?
They are similar, and you can use either with Mac OS X.
One difference is .dmg disk images can be formatted in one of these formats:
-Mac OS Extended (HFS Plus) ***
-Mac OS Extended Journaled
-Mac OS Standard (HFS) ***
-UFS
-MS-DOS ***
While .img disk images can be formatted as:
-Mac OS Extended (HFS Plus) ***
-Mac OS Standard (HFS) ***
-MS-DOS ***
-ProDOS
-Universal Disk Format.
*** denotes fileformat that is in both .img + .dmg standards!
original article here -- http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1611
transfering files between x + 9 can be done MOST SAFELY + MOST EFFECTIVELY
by using this method.. creating .img on mac os 9 using disk copy and then transfering the .img file from mac os 9 to a mac os x disk
this encapsulates + retains all proper file meta data such as resource forks icons associations etc
going from 9 to X at least..
im not so sure this is possible to go backwards from .dmg on X to 9
i had made some post about a rare version of disk copy that was able to mount .dmg files on mac os 9
so i beleive it is possible to go backwards as well providing you have updated your disk copy version to this
rare + hard to find version
i think we found this file.... i will take a look and post a link to the other thread!
but i think it will work (mounting .dmg from X on mac os 9) as long as this .dmg file frm X is using a compatible file system (mac os standard or extended) (denoted above as ***)
but this would be the best and most safe way to transfer files NATIVELY between X + 9
this is the "apple version of stuffit"
this is why apple dropped stuffit from mac os x tiger because they wanted people to use disk images + not use stuffit anymore
Quote
types of disk image formatsoriginal article -- http://support.apple.com/kb/PH5866
read/write Choose this if you want to continue adding files to the disk image after it’s created. sparse bundle disk image Choose this if you want to continue adding files to the image and want to conserve space. The disk image is just large enough to hold the files in it and expands to its maximum size as you add files to it. For example, if you create a 100 MB sparse bundle disk image, its maximum size is 100 MB. (This format replaces sparse disk image.) read-only Choose this If you don’t need to add more files to the disk image. compressed Choose this if you don’t need to add more files to the image and want to conserve space. The data is compressed, so the disk image is smaller than the original data. CD/DVD master Choose this if you want to use the disk image with a third-party application. The disk image contains a copy of all sectors of the disk, whether they’re used or not, and copies them to other CDs or DVDs exactly as they’re stored in the disk image.
Quote
what is a .img file?
A Macintosh disk image file is a mirror copy of the Mac file system and can be mounted on a computer as a virtual hard disk drive. These Macintosh disk image files can also be used as virtual optical drives like DVD and CD drives. Mac OS 9 and older versions are integrated with support for using and mounting these Macintosh disk image files. These Macintosh disk image files are saved in the IMG format and are affixed with the .img extension. These IMG files are also stored with encoding specifications and implemented with file compression standards proprietary to Apple. Similar to ISO files, an IMG file can sometimes be changed to an ISO file by simply replacing the .img extension with the .iso extension, and doing this will allow a user to use the IMG file with an image mounting program developed for Microsoft Windows-based systems. Mac OS X is also implemented with support for opening and using these IMG files, though newer disk image file formats are now widely used by associated applications programmed for Mac platforms.
original article -- http://www.reviversoft.com/file-extensions/img
^^ from the above article.. has anyone ever tried to make a disk copy .img file and actually move the file to another pc and change file to .iso + burn it?? it seems that .img .dmg .iso are all similar formats!!!!!!?? or has anyone tried to change a .toast file to a .img file (from 9) and click to mount (on x) ?
I've used the R9000 in all AGP G4 Macs. Maybe you have the PC versions. The Mac R9000 should have an ADC connector
also if you open 'disk utility' under mac os x ... and drag a '.img' file into the left pane,
i noticed from the "file" menu there is an option that says "fix os 9 permissions"
so that shows u right there. that this is indeed the 'conduit' between the two operating systems
that it was meant to be!
i noticed from the "file" menu there is an option that says "fix os 9 permissions"
so that shows u right there. that this is indeed the 'conduit' between the two operating systems
that it was meant to be!
Quote
Disk Images, DiskCopy, and ShrinkWrap
Years ago, Apple had a problem. It wanted to distribute software via the
Internet. But some of the software it wanted to distribute, such as its
PlainTalk Speech kit, wasn’t just a single control panel; it was a suite of files
— extensions, control panels, and so on — that had to be placed into the right
spots in your System folder. To ensure that all these pieces would go into the
right places, Apple also needed an Installer program. How on earth could
Apple distribute all of these pieces electronically — while still keeping them
together, with an installer, in an arrangement the installer understood?
The solution: Apple created disk images. A disk image (a file whose name
generally ends with the suffix .img) is an increasingly common file format for
downloaded software, especially from Apple. But once you’ve downloaded an
.img file to your hard drive, you can’t do a thing with it — unless you have a
program that can open it.
In this case, the program you need is DiskDup + (shareware), Disk Copy or
Disk Image Mounter (from Apple, available from its Web site) — or the much
superior ShrinkWrap (from Aladdin, and included with this book).
Here’s how you work ShrinkWrap: Whenever you encounter an
.img file — including the Disk Tools floppy-disk “images” that come on the Mac OS 8.5
CD-ROMs — double-click it (if you have Disk Copy) or drag it onto
ShrinkWrap’s icon. That’s it; a “virtual floppy-disk” icon appears on your
screen, exactly as though it’s a real floppy disk (the lower-right icon in Figure
22-7). Double-click it to see what Apple has in store for you — an installer, a
Disk Tools floppy’s contents, or whatever. When you’re finished using the
mounted disk image, drag its icon (not the original .img file!) to the Trash
You can also create a disk image. Why would you want to do so? Maybe you,
like Apple, want to distribute something (a little presentation, for example)
to friends, confident that all pieces will remain in their original folder
configurations. Maybe you haven’t switched to the HFS Plus hard drive-
formatting scheme (see Chapter, and you realize that a lot of small files
won’t waste their usual 64K apiece if they’re all stored together on a much
smaller “virtual disk.” (That last sentence will make a lot more sense once
you’ve read Chapter 8.)
Anyway, to create a disk image of your own, just drag a disk or folder onto
ShrinkWrap’s icon. The new .img file is created automatically. (You’re not
limited to creating disk images of floppies, by the way. ShrinkWrap is perfectly
happy to create disk images of entire hard drives, Zip disks, Jaz cartridges, or
whatever; it even offers to compress the contents in the process. As thousands
of teenage software pirates have discovered, that feature makes ShrinkWrap
ideal for creating easily uploaded duplicates of entire CD-ROMs.) LOL!
No ShrinkWrap needed — and passwords
ShrinkWrap’s Preferences are worth checking out. Among our favorite features,
for example, is a self-mounting option. It lets you create disk-image files that your friends can open even
if they don’t have Disk Copy, ShrinkWrap, or a similar
program. A self-mounting disk image is just as user-friendly as, say, a self-
extracting archive, as described earlier in this chapter — just double-click to
mount the “virtual disk” on the screen.
Another great preference: You can opt to protect an archive with a password.
Yes, all you Mac fans who’ve e-mailed us with this question — now you can
protect specific folders on your hard drive from prying eyes. (Remember the
password, though. There’s no “back door” to ShrinkWrap.
--- http://macos9lives.com/downloads/manuals/MacOs/Mac%20Secrets%205th%20Edit.pdf
"As thousands of teenage software pirates have discovered, that feature makes ShrinkWrap
ideal for creating easily uploaded duplicates of entire CD-ROMs "
^^ yet here we are using .toast images as a standard instead of .img..
when .img is native to both X + 9... and Toast. well.. requires Toast!!
maybe it would have been more convenient for all,
if we were all using diskcopy or skrinkwrap from the start!
Have you taped the pins on the PC flashed Radeon 9700 to get it to work @ AGP 4X?
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/flasher-s-buying-guide-9700
I've just flashed over a PC Radeon 9800 Pro for my MDD - taped pins but notice there is also a resistor removal mod to permanently force it to AGP 4X, which I'm considering.
The Radeon 9000 would have come from an MDD, it should work fine in a lesser G4 tower. I'd clean the AGP slot out using electrical contact cleaner spray.
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/flasher-s-buying-guide-9700
I've just flashed over a PC Radeon 9800 Pro for my MDD - taped pins but notice there is also a resistor removal mod to permanently force it to AGP 4X, which I'm considering.
The Radeon 9000 would have come from an MDD, it should work fine in a lesser G4 tower. I'd clean the AGP slot out using electrical contact cleaner spray.
ok now that i have a working playable setup for ableton live.... before i go much further only to find out that it doesnt work.. i will now try to back up this system and do a restore to a different mac! using the methods i talked about above;)
for this.. ive cloned the drive not using carbon copy cloner (ccc) but with disk utility...
and its made a compressed dmg that came out to about 650mb (the full size of the install on the mac os 9 root volume partition was around 1gb)
im restoring it now to my quicksilver 933mhz overwriting the current mac os 9 install with the cloned one frm the mdd..
ive installed all similar hardware (it also has a delta card for a audio interface + connected the same edirol keyboard)
so i hope to boot into a functional mac os 9 with authorized ableton live + drivers working in one go!
i booted up using the disk utility restore method just fine but when i ran ableton it came up asking for serial number and showed the serial i had used before but a few characters were missing..
so clearly something wasnt duplicated 100% for the auth to work.....maybe its because the hard drive is a different size??? not sure why the auth didnt work
ok regardless of the auth i had to re-run the installers for the audio + midi interfaces . probably because of where they are connected pci slots usb ports are diferent etc etc
also had to re-setup oms setup but live v4 is happily playing midi from operator (in demo mode for testing midi + sound are working)
seems my goal of having a truly instant setup is a bit shortsighted;)
i guess i will have to try carbon copy cloner now:/
i wonder if its the differences in hard drive size/different systemthat is making teh auth not work . i will only know if i try to overwrite the existing install ON THE SAME MACHINE from the back up
and see if it works seamlessly loading up with everyhtng activated still or not!
ran out of juice for day (this being human thing sucks man;) hehe)
so i will try more tomorrow .. im thinking carbon copy cloner will make it work!!! re keepin the auths working.
ive done this once before using ccc i think it worked fine but i remember itmesed somet hings up like being able to drag .sit files to expander. the icon woudlnt light up on drag, hold + mouseover but maybe i just needed to 'rebuild the desktop file' to fix this... but yea having a universal install that i could just image to my macs and have cubase + pt + logic + all these vsts installed would be invaluable... i hate how long eveyrthing takes to installl !!!!!
for this.. ive cloned the drive not using carbon copy cloner (ccc) but with disk utility...
and its made a compressed dmg that came out to about 650mb (the full size of the install on the mac os 9 root volume partition was around 1gb)
im restoring it now to my quicksilver 933mhz overwriting the current mac os 9 install with the cloned one frm the mdd..
ive installed all similar hardware (it also has a delta card for a audio interface + connected the same edirol keyboard)
so i hope to boot into a functional mac os 9 with authorized ableton live + drivers working in one go!
i booted up using the disk utility restore method just fine but when i ran ableton it came up asking for serial number and showed the serial i had used before but a few characters were missing..
so clearly something wasnt duplicated 100% for the auth to work.....maybe its because the hard drive is a different size??? not sure why the auth didnt work
ok regardless of the auth i had to re-run the installers for the audio + midi interfaces . probably because of where they are connected pci slots usb ports are diferent etc etc
also had to re-setup oms setup but live v4 is happily playing midi from operator (in demo mode for testing midi + sound are working)
seems my goal of having a truly instant setup is a bit shortsighted;)
i guess i will have to try carbon copy cloner now:/
i wonder if its the differences in hard drive size/different systemthat is making teh auth not work . i will only know if i try to overwrite the existing install ON THE SAME MACHINE from the back up
and see if it works seamlessly loading up with everyhtng activated still or not!
ran out of juice for day (this being human thing sucks man;) hehe)
so i will try more tomorrow .. im thinking carbon copy cloner will make it work!!! re keepin the auths working.
ive done this once before using ccc i think it worked fine but i remember itmesed somet hings up like being able to drag .sit files to expander. the icon woudlnt light up on drag, hold + mouseover but maybe i just needed to 'rebuild the desktop file' to fix this... but yea having a universal install that i could just image to my macs and have cubase + pt + logic + all these vsts installed would be invaluable... i hate how long eveyrthing takes to installl !!!!!
On the 9700 card, I did not tape the pins, since I have a Sawtooth (non-ADC) it does not use pins 3 and 11 for whatever purpose the ADC Macs use them for, so I was told it was not necessary. I also believe mine is AGP 2x, but could be wrong.
On the 9000 cards, they are definitely Mac cards. One is labeled as such and both have the extra spade connector and ADC outputs.
I will try to clean the slot, but can't figure out why the GeForce and R128Pro work. Unless these cards don't like to step down to 2x. (there is a post in the forums of one guy saying he did this.)
On the 9000 cards, they are definitely Mac cards. One is labeled as such and both have the extra spade connector and ADC outputs.
I will try to clean the slot, but can't figure out why the GeForce and R128Pro work. Unless these cards don't like to step down to 2x. (there is a post in the forums of one guy saying he did this.)
ok i just tried super duper and it failed too..
ableton comes up asking for serial on launch
i wonder why it cant clone the authorization
i will try ccc now just to be thorough but its not
looking like its going to work...
ableton comes up asking for serial on launch
i wonder why it cant clone the authorization
i will try ccc now just to be thorough but its not
looking like its going to work...
Maybe has to do with making visible the invisible files before doing the imaging.
I remember there was a command for doing this in OS9.
I remember there was a command for doing this in OS9.
hey diehard.
cool stuffit info.. but what does that have to do with apple disk images:)
yes i agree that all of the existing archives posted on the site should be downloaded + installed from within mac os 9 itself.. unless you dont have internet access on your mac os 9 machine (which may be the case for some people) so yea, its not a debate, im not sure if u are catching what im saying, im not suggesting we move all archive files to .img or .smi or .dmg
the point was exactly what i said, to hilight that this is a natively supported fileformat (that supports compression) directly created+ supported by Apple for it's own operating systems.
and that its the best way to get os9 files to osx users... for the purpose of installing the initial operating system. exactly. not to keep using once os9 is installed.. but to use for the different mac os 9 drag installs.. it works where other solutions have been problematic + error prone
and that these files are always double clickable and mountable frm within Any osx installation.. regardless of version. (so there is little to no room for error, compared with other formats that require 3rd party installed software to work) this makes .img file format the best way to deliver *initial installation media* to people who dont have os 9. meaning that we coudl use this to create a bundle,
of not just the fresh drag install but a variety of the other small "optional neccessities" in a file that would be just a couple hundred mb and save time + effort like having toast, fetch, stuffit, all of these other 3rd party essential os9 tools, in one custom created "disk image" made by us, for us.. thats my idea anyway.. much like the driver disk idea.
i hope i figure it out too..
i told u i have done it sucessfully once.. and im hoping to discover that for whatever reason partitioning a drive was the reason it didnt work the second time, but i will let u know once i go thru the motions!
cool stuffit info.. but what does that have to do with apple disk images:)
Quote
As a suggestion to Newbies, I strongly recommend, that after getting Mac OS 9 up and running, use OS 9 to extract and install anything that you download from our site... since all OS 9 DAW software is pretty useless when running OS 9 in classic mode anyway, stay in OS 9 to extract and install all apps (just ignore OS X altogether); this will avoid many of the issues discussed here. Our site has been geared to those in an OS 9 environment... period. So this whole image debate is a mute point
yes i agree that all of the existing archives posted on the site should be downloaded + installed from within mac os 9 itself.. unless you dont have internet access on your mac os 9 machine (which may be the case for some people) so yea, its not a debate, im not sure if u are catching what im saying, im not suggesting we move all archive files to .img or .smi or .dmg
the point was exactly what i said, to hilight that this is a natively supported fileformat (that supports compression) directly created+ supported by Apple for it's own operating systems.
and that its the best way to get os9 files to osx users... for the purpose of installing the initial operating system. exactly. not to keep using once os9 is installed.. but to use for the different mac os 9 drag installs.. it works where other solutions have been problematic + error prone
and that these files are always double clickable and mountable frm within Any osx installation.. regardless of version. (so there is little to no room for error, compared with other formats that require 3rd party installed software to work) this makes .img file format the best way to deliver *initial installation media* to people who dont have os 9. meaning that we coudl use this to create a bundle,
of not just the fresh drag install but a variety of the other small "optional neccessities" in a file that would be just a couple hundred mb and save time + effort like having toast, fetch, stuffit, all of these other 3rd party essential os9 tools, in one custom created "disk image" made by us, for us.. thats my idea anyway.. much like the driver disk idea.
Quote
Chris, as far as cloning a hard drive and preserving authorized plugins... I gave up on that in 2008 with as much frustration as you are experiencing now... I am hoping you find something... it would benefit all of us... I do over 20 installs when stting up a new DAW.
i hope i figure it out too..
i told u i have done it sucessfully once.. and im hoping to discover that for whatever reason partitioning a drive was the reason it didnt work the second time, but i will let u know once i go thru the motions!
sounds worth investigating for sure.
just to clear the confusion caused here a bit:
- toast file also mount using disk utiliy when not renamed to .dmg (all images do)
- dmg does not work in OS9
- image files do not need to be .bin´ed, as they are binary files.
- self mounting images should be avoided on the net because they execute code
additional thought:
it can under circumstances be wise to stuff or zip images files, namely when the image is a master, i.e. may not be changed in order to make it work from CD or DVD later. especially when using shrink wrap images it can easily happen that you change its content by accident.
- dmg does not work in OS9
- self mounting images should be avoided on the net because they execute code
hi 110;
this is partially correct and partially incorrect.
dmg files can be opened by diskcopy 6.5b3 provided they meet a certain specific criteria.
that is pertaining to which file system they are created with.. and the specific properties.
but yes some can be mounted and accessed in os9
the whole point of this post is to highlight that .dmg and .img are not so different and are in fact different flavours of the same design, implemented by apple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Disk_Image
i would love it if you could go into further detail on the secnd point ive quoted here
because as you know since the dawn of macosx (and even sligtly before that) apple's
primary way of getting installation based software packages over the internet has been .dmg + .img
and its the entire sole reason that the apple disk image format was conceived and created...
for exactly that purpose and that purpose alone... to transport the filesystems of software installers over the internet
"self mounting images should be avoided on the net because they execute code"
i really fail to understand where u are coming from with this.. of course it executes code it installs the app?
so does anything else u can put in a stuffit once u expand it?
Quote
it can under circumstances be wise to stuff or zip images files, namely when the image is a master, i.e. may not be changed in order to make it work from CD or DVD later. especially when using shrink wrap images it can easily happen that you change its content by accident.
when creating a shrinkwrap package there is a matrix of different settings
file format = [shrinkwrap 3.x, Self-Mounting(.smi), disk copy 6, disk copy 4, diskdup+, ms-dos]
compression = [none, simple, diskcopy, stuffit]
encryption = [none, 40bit]
segment size = [too many options to list]
if u select simple, diskcopy or stuffit for compression settings, the disk image is READ ONLY and its contents can never be changed...
so "it can easily happen that you change its content by accident" not so much... read only is read only.