"ultimate" 68k machine

I'm sorry, I seem to be missing your specific point. The support for block moves is nice, assuming that was not available before, but transactions to and from the CPU are still at 10MHz in all Macintosh machines. Only card to card transactions have the option of running at 20 MHz.

If you doubt this, look up the specific Apple Hardware Developer Note for each NuBus machine after the Q900 and you'll find that they all stick to 10 MHz transactions with the CPU.

Is it possible to downgrade the Q950 oscillator to 50 MHz and use QuadDoubler 50 MHz upgrade?

Just a thought!

Well the point is that the q840av notes say it is doing something faster wrt nubus speeds through the cpu. I assume they are comparing it to existing quadra models (such as the q950).

Assuming Apple isn't flat out lying, what is responsible for this increase in speed and did anything take advantage of it?

Personal preference:

840av (one that will overclock to 48Mhz, Nubus 90 standard, two Apple Hi-Res color monitors, max out the VRAM and RAM)

Add:

FWB Hammer SCSI-2 card (more compatible with the overclock than the ATTO cards)

FWB External Ultra SCSI array

Radius Thunder IV 1600x1200 with 4 DSP daughter board

Radius Photoengine coprocessor card

Wacom ADB tablet

Then crank up Photoshop and watch the 8 coprocessors blink away...

I counted 6 cards in your config. Will the 840AV hold that many?

No, an 840 does not have that many slots. A 950 doesn't even have that many slots.

that's only three cards there - the scsi array and wacom tablet are not nubus cards.

If you were running out of slots, you could get an external nubus enclosure, but I'm not sure how well this is supported (Only avid setups?).

btw - the photoengine works cooperatively with the thunder IV?

Aaw crap!

I made a mistake. A newbish one at that. Yes you are only using 3 cards. I went back and re-read your post and attempted some form of reading comprehension. Thinking about the setup made me almost slap my forehead. Almost.

Sorry about that.

8 Co-Processors you say?

Anything else besides Photoshop take advantage of all those spare cycles laying around?

kreats is correct, only three nubus slots used in this config.

The Radius and Adobe software allow work to be spread across all eight DSP chips (4 on the Thunder and 4 on the Photoengine) in this setup. The simplest and most direct way to see this is to run with the case off the 840av and look for the LEDs (1 per processor; upper right hand corner of the boards). If they're on (flashing on/off) the processor is active.

The Radius DSP hardware accelerators were developed specifically for Adobe software and use the "Adobe-Charged" system. I know them mostly from Photoshop (versions later than 2.5.1 supported) but don't recall if they also work with Adobe Premiere.

Cheers...

which makes me wonder how far does it scale? Say a q950 plus a thunder IV and 4 photoengines?

You'd hope your gaussian blur would be plenty fast by then!

You are limited by the Nubus controller on how much data you can fling around between the cards. 4 DSP chips seem to be plenty anyway.

What is the point of loading up an old Mac with DSP's these days? Radius Rockets aren't that cheap and newer Macs can do anything faster.

The same as collecting old 68k mac... Don't you think?

What I mean is, I know they are cool to have, but if you are actually going to use them, isn't using a faster machine and newer software more productive? And if you use them, you run the risk they will stop working so you spend a huge amount of money on a collectible peripheral and then wear it out.

kreats - In my hands the Photoengine cards appear to scale very nicely. I have never timed things but the Photoshop speedup seems roughly proportional to the number of Photoengines. One thunder IV plus two Photoengine cards makes 12 DSP coprocessors and the speedup is quite noticeable.

Unknown_K - Nubus speed does not appear to be limiting but, as I said, I have not timed things.

Quadraman - Just speaking for myself - the point is that there is no point. There are many better ways to run Photoshop. BTW - The Radius Rocket is not a DSP-based coprocessor and what are we wearing out? The ROMs will eventually degrade but that will happen with use of not.

Cheers...

Old software with old hardware can be very productive as long as you do not need some newer feature to do your work ( and don't need to use the internet).

I have scanned in some large pictures and cropped them in photoshop 3 on my Q950 and it wasn't realy slow. Saving as JPG took a little more time then it would have on my main machines, but the SCSI scanner wasn't running slower and I had plenty of RAM to work with.

Most people do not use most of the features of newer apps anyway.

The Radius Rocket is not a DSP-based coprocessor and what are we wearing out? The ROMs will eventually degrade but that will happen with use of not.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I remembered that after I entered the reply but was too lazy to fix it. I should have used 'accelerators' as a generic term.

And circuits wear out faster when you have voltage running through them than when you have them packed away.

Hmm, that's interesting. No listing for the 2300, and none for the beige G3. From memory, the latter is a mere 5MB/s.
In fact no listing for any of the PPC Powerbooks.

Click to expand...

SCSI on the beige G3 was deliberately designed as a low end interface to support legacy scanners, Zip drives etc. Apple had lost interest in creating their own high performance SCSI solutions, hence the market for Adaptec SCSI cards.

For the PowerBooks, assume slow SCSI. Were there any good PCMCIA or PC card SCSI adapters?

The adaptec powerdomain PCMCIA SCSI card (mac variant of slimscsi) is probably what you want here.

Hi everyone

I was "obsessed" some years ago by making the ultimate 68k machine and i think that i have got the ultimate one :

- Quad 840av (i choosed this one because it's the only model having 60ns ram )

- reaching 50 Mhz using this

http://www.micromac.com/products/mach10_jet.html'>http://www.micromac.com/products/mach10_jet.html

or this

http://cgi.ebay.com/Newer-Tech-Quadra-Overdrive-Plus-for-Centris-650-NEW_W0QQitemZ150206630340QQihZ005QQcategoryZ51046QQcmdZViewItem

- trying to overclock a little more Laugh using this

http://www.micromac.com/products/mach10_jet.html

- adding a 128k cache card

http://www.micromac.com/products/quadra_cache_cards.html

- using the Radius Thunder Iv as a graphic card

with such a configuration i'm sure it's possible to reach the early PPCs performance Big Smile

What do you think ??

The MicroMac slotless Quadra Cache Card is an interesting idea but it is not officially compatible with the 840av.

Have you tested and found that it works (i.e. speed increase and no compatibility issues)?

Nope

It would be easier (!) to find a way the disable the clock-doubler of a Quadra Overdrive Plus, so it would run at the same speed as your bus (50 mhz) with 128k of cache...

There was a thread on http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/ about a guy who made some radical changes to his Quaddoubler board. You could start there...

I didn't found any topic about that :-/

You people and your friggin' Quadras. No Quadra is the ultimate 68k machine because no Quadra can run System 6.

quod erat f'in demonstrandum

Oh yea?

The best 68K for most tasks in a Q950 256MB RAM with a 68040/50+cache, a PDS dual wide SCSI card, 5 drive bay, powershop Photoshop accelerator, DSP card, Audiomedia II or Digidesign 442 audio setup, and 10/100 Ethernet!

Who made a 10/100 Ethernet card for nubus machines? That's pretty cool.

You people and your friggin' Quadras. No Quadra is the ultimate 68k machine because no Quadra can run System 6.
quod erat f'in demonstrandum

Click to expand...

If a IIci sees only inchoate fragments when it comes across 6.0.8, no Quadra is going to be able to discern anything at all ...

Sicut erat in principio, et nunc et semper.

de

Who made a 10/100 Ethernet card for nubus machines? That's pretty cool.

Click to expand...

There is an AsantéFAST 10/100 NuBus card, three of which I use in IIcis. Because of an oddity in the short keyslot at the bottom of the card's fascia plate, it cannot fit into a Q900 without removal of some plastic from the Quadra. I've never found an answer, or a reason, for this oddity. It did cause me to muse that the fabled NuBus 90 might have some bearing.

de

I have a couple 10/100 Asantes, maybe farallon made one too (I know it was more then one company).