Thread
2.5" SCSI SSD Project
the whole reason for this is becuase the SCSI to IDE bridges are what, impossible to find nowadays? and they use custom proprietary components that are hard to find, no datasheets, no code, etc....
thats why i wanted to design it my way. at least its open source
thats why i wanted to design it my way. at least its open source
Yeah, I understand that, but wouldn't designing a SCSI to IDE adapter be easier than designing a whole SCSI to Flash drive?
I would think that since SCSI to IDE has already been developed, there would be more documentation out there on the process.
I seem to recall that there were a ton of desktop SCSI -> IDE adapters out there. Getting one (even if expensive) might be easier to reverse engineer than starting from scratch.
But then again, I have to applaud your efforts for taking on the project and look forward to the fruits of your labor. I will be watching this thread and if you get it working, I may very well be you first customer should you release it as a fully-developed product.
I seem to recall there is a site out there that you can post your projects on, people donate to have it being built. There's your money to start mass production. If you use any sparkfun devices, you might want to see if they will develop and put together a few versions of the thing once it's done. As open source, you could release it, they could do production as long as you use an arduino controller or possibly a PICAXE (I think you are using an ATMega chip, right?) so you could release the code, and let people go nuts on it, while minimizing developer's cost. I would gladly throw some funding your way should you need it (I can spare up to $80 to do it) and would love to be your (one of if not THE) first customer.
I would think that since SCSI to IDE has already been developed, there would be more documentation out there on the process.
I seem to recall that there were a ton of desktop SCSI -> IDE adapters out there. Getting one (even if expensive) might be easier to reverse engineer than starting from scratch.
But then again, I have to applaud your efforts for taking on the project and look forward to the fruits of your labor. I will be watching this thread and if you get it working, I may very well be you first customer should you release it as a fully-developed product.
I seem to recall there is a site out there that you can post your projects on, people donate to have it being built. There's your money to start mass production. If you use any sparkfun devices, you might want to see if they will develop and put together a few versions of the thing once it's done. As open source, you could release it, they could do production as long as you use an arduino controller or possibly a PICAXE (I think you are using an ATMega chip, right?) so you could release the code, and let people go nuts on it, while minimizing developer's cost. I would gladly throw some funding your way should you need it (I can spare up to $80 to do it) and would love to be your (one of if not THE) first customer.
Well SCSI to IDE wont be any simpler for me than it already is. still requires the same, if not more amount of I/O lines, and it all matters on what libraries you use and how you integrate them when you compile your code.
Another reason for the way i am going, is I am in direct contact of the original author that GPLed alot of the code libraries that I am using. So why not implement his stuff in a different mannor? Plus hes helping me troubleshoot it to a certain extent.
He built a PCMCIA 68pin SCSI-3 LVD system using the same libraries and it works fine. while mine is on SE, and CF and it does NOT work. So i know its not code. its hardware related.
The SCSI libraries are built to be SCSI-3 compliant. Maybe this is my problem? since macs are only SCSI-1 and SCSI-2? Might need to study the docks some more to figure out the differences.
Another reason for the way i am going, is I am in direct contact of the original author that GPLed alot of the code libraries that I am using. So why not implement his stuff in a different mannor? Plus hes helping me troubleshoot it to a certain extent.
He built a PCMCIA 68pin SCSI-3 LVD system using the same libraries and it works fine. while mine is on SE, and CF and it does NOT work. So i know its not code. its hardware related.
The SCSI libraries are built to be SCSI-3 compliant. Maybe this is my problem? since macs are only SCSI-1 and SCSI-2? Might need to study the docks some more to figure out the differences.
All the SCSI to IDE adapters I've seen are essentially two chips. There's a mysterious chip that does the work and a Flash chip with the firmware for the working chip.
For example, Acard is a one chip solution and apparently they have some kind of custom micro-controller built into their SCSI/IDE products and then they just write the firmware to make it do whatever job is needed. So there's really nothing there to reverse engineer. There's a chip where SCSI goes in and IDE comes out.
And you can't get an actual datasheet for any of Acard's chips without being a developer and signing an NDA with them.
So, no the information about the commercial products really just isn't available.
There may be things like open source FPGA code out there, like at SourceForge, but using Open Source code for a microcontroller is essentially the same idea.
It was a good thought Coius, but the datasheets just aren't available.
Well, you're younger than my parents, so not an old fart sorry to say. Side note, I commut to work twice a week in my Ghia 60 mi round trip.
The what?
I seem to recall apple shipped a SCSI to IDE adapter (put IDE drives in a SCSI laptop) in either the 500 series, of the 190 (doubtful)
Or was that to use a SCSI drive in an IDE system?
Or was that to use a SCSI drive in an IDE system?
Nah, that was the 5xx series...they were SCSI only, but some of them did ship with 750MB+ "SCSI" drives that were actually an IDE drive with a SCSI -> IDE adapter hanging off it. The 190 actually used an IDE drive, and only used SCSI for external devices.
So this:
Although nutting out what on earth coius meant by that comment did lead to a slightly mad random train of thought that Trash80 may find amusing:
The PCMCIA adapter for the 5x0 series sits on a "subset" of the 030 PDS. PCMCIA slots can take CF cards with a simple slot adapter. And variants of the 030-type PDS are littered across the late 68k Mac product range - in LCs, in the SE/30, and in the Duos.
Maybe getting a good look at a 5x0 PCMCIA Card Cage would be worthwhile.
is nothing different from what's already happening in this project.
Although nutting out what on earth coius meant by that comment did lead to a slightly mad random train of thought that Trash80 may find amusing:
The PCMCIA adapter for the 5x0 series sits on a "subset" of the 030 PDS. PCMCIA slots can take CF cards with a simple slot adapter. And variants of the 030-type PDS are littered across the late 68k Mac product range - in LCs, in the SE/30, and in the Duos.
Maybe getting a good look at a 5x0 PCMCIA Card Cage would be worthwhile.
Nah, I'm only really interested in the T-Rex Card Cage of the 1400, because it's the one that would have shipped in the UltraDock if the project hadn't been $#1^Canned after being announced.
I really think Apple wanted the Duo to go away, because they only had Bigger, Thicker, MonstrocityBooks in the pipeline, (read Kanga, Wallstreet & Toilet Seat) with the notable exception of the 2400c.
Apple never wanted to fulfill the promise they'd made to provide a PPC upgrade path for the Duos, but you don't wanna tick off a boatload of people who paid $5k+ to join the DockableBookClub!
Good notion though, B! :approve: Check back a few pages & you'll see some discussion about my T-Rex spelunking/hack and its applicability across the whole '030 spectrum!
I really think Apple wanted the Duo to go away, because they only had Bigger, Thicker, MonstrocityBooks in the pipeline, (read Kanga, Wallstreet & Toilet Seat) with the notable exception of the 2400c.
Apple never wanted to fulfill the promise they'd made to provide a PPC upgrade path for the Duos, but you don't wanna tick off a boatload of people who paid $5k+ to join the DockableBookClub!
Good notion though, B! :approve: Check back a few pages & you'll see some discussion about my T-Rex spelunking/hack and its applicability across the whole '030 spectrum!
just checking in 
project has halted, i have hit a brick wall a long time ago.
I will pick back up on it soon eventually, i just stepped away for a bit.
I will pick back up on it soon eventually, i just stepped away for a bit.
Since the only stupid question, is the one that doesn't get asked . . .
Are any of the traces on your board anywhere near the length of the wavelengths of the signals they're carrying? :?:
Are any of the traces on your board anywhere near the length of the wavelengths of the signals they're carrying? :?:
i dont know what the wavelength of the signals are. the CPU cant run any faster than 16mhz, and the board is WAYYYYY smaller than 1 full wavelength of a resonant circuit of a dividend of 16mhz.
Now a multiplicand harmonic is something different.. Like i said, i think all efforts in this "board" is dead. saving some cash and going to route a new one, 4 LAYER.
Now a multiplicand harmonic is something different.. Like i said, i think all efforts in this "board" is dead. saving some cash and going to route a new one, 4 LAYER.
Found these guys while looking for something else:
http://www.compuvest.com/Desc.jsp?iid=1206341
Fifty 1" 5GB IDE disks for $141, or about $3 each. They're kind of slow, but on a 5MBps SCSI bus who would notice? They might be a useful option for fitting your whole assembly into an older Mac's 2.5" space.
http://www.compuvest.com/Desc.jsp?iid=1206341
Fifty 1" 5GB IDE disks for $141, or about $3 each. They're kind of slow, but on a 5MBps SCSI bus who would notice? They might be a useful option for fitting your whole assembly into an older Mac's 2.5" space.
its not showing up, maybe already gone? Anyway, I havent made any more progress, too many big projects came up at work. late nights. long weekends.
Interesting. I guess someone bought six sets of fifty. I wonder who had a use for all those obsolete tiny drives. They claimed to have six sets of fifty available.
Here's a link for the individual item, but at $7+ each, I don't find it nearly so interesting. However, they claim to have 600+ in stock, so I'm not sure why they couldn't sell more sets of fifty...
http://www.compuvest.com/Desc.jsp?iid=1183657
Here's a link for the individual item, but at $7+ each, I don't find it nearly so interesting. However, they claim to have 600+ in stock, so I'm not sure why they couldn't sell more sets of fifty...
http://www.compuvest.com/Desc.jsp?iid=1183657
Somebody probably ran a spreadsheet analysis on on the inventory after they got a decent offer for a couple of drives. :-/
I've got a different approach for you:
Build a 2.5" IDE <-> SCSI adapter for those inexpensive 1.8" ZIF IDE <-> SD card converters
1) you've got half the work done already
2) a 1.8" ZIF <-> 2.5" IDE header <-> 2.5" SCSI header hack still leaves LOTS of cubic available
3) SD <-> Chiplet Converters are a dime a dozen
4) chiplets are almost throwaway technology as compared to 2.5" IDE, much less 2.5" SCSI!
5) IDE <-> SCSI would be useful across the entire spectrum of old Macs
I'm not sure if I've got this right, I'm in a hurry and I haven't thought it through or done fact checking yet . . .
. . . that's what tech qualified comrades do best anyway . . . :approve:
I'm in the loony tunes idea Chain of Command! [
] ]'>
Build a 2.5" IDE <-> SCSI adapter for those inexpensive 1.8" ZIF IDE <-> SD card converters
1) you've got half the work done already
2) a 1.8" ZIF <-> 2.5" IDE header <-> 2.5" SCSI header hack still leaves LOTS of cubic available
3) SD <-> Chiplet Converters are a dime a dozen
4) chiplets are almost throwaway technology as compared to 2.5" IDE, much less 2.5" SCSI!
5) IDE <-> SCSI would be useful across the entire spectrum of old Macs
I'm not sure if I've got this right, I'm in a hurry and I haven't thought it through or done fact checking yet . . .
. . . that's what tech qualified comrades do best anyway . . . :approve:
I'm in the loony tunes idea Chain of Command! [
] ]'>
SD memory card to 1.8" ZIF/50pin toshiba IDE adapter
OOPSIE!!!! :lol:
I forgot about the 50 pin 1.8" IDE connector and the fact that it shows up like a HDD to begin with. :beige:
IDE <-> Mac SCSI =
ATAPI <-> Mac SCSI, while you're at it, would be just . . . 8-o
my issues arnt in the ata, CF area...
my issue is on the scsi/negotiation end
my issue is on the scsi/negotiation end
I know you were having trouble with the SCSI end of things, I was just thinking about your project when I found these adapters and figured they might be a good way to kick start the project again.
If you plug the 1.8" 50 pin adapter's female connector into a matching RA DIP header on one end . . .
. . . and hang your 2.5" SCSI connector on the other end of your board . . .
. . . you've got the entire 2.5" form factor board as empty real estate to play with . . .
. . . and two well documented, industry standard, interfaces to funnel through your chip/thingie . . .
OODLES-n-OODLES of surface area open up as compared to your original 2.5" AIO layout . . .
. . . or so it would seem to an old hardware guy like me . . . :-/
< . . . shrugs . . . ambles back to his IIsi card demolition site . . . >
If you plug the 1.8" 50 pin adapter's female connector into a matching RA DIP header on one end . . .
. . . and hang your 2.5" SCSI connector on the other end of your board . . .
. . . you've got the entire 2.5" form factor board as empty real estate to play with . . .
. . . and two well documented, industry standard, interfaces to funnel through your chip/thingie . . .
OODLES-n-OODLES of surface area open up as compared to your original 2.5" AIO layout . . .
. . . or so it would seem to an old hardware guy like me . . . :-/
< . . . shrugs . . . ambles back to his IIsi card demolition site . . . >
yea, that would definitely entice a hell of a lot more room.
just gotta figure out the SCSI issues. SCSI and IDE CMDs are really not all that different. just a small translator program and its done.
just gotta figure out the SCSI issues. SCSI and IDE CMDs are really not all that different. just a small translator program and its done.
[] ]'>
] ]'>
good to keep this one up near the top... those PB180's are still waiting.
Artmix seems to offer a New CF PowerMonster II. At least the English manual on that web page seems to be recently updated (2011). The price tag of Yen 9900 equals about USD 130 today. Add some bucks for shipping, import tax, and probably an adaptor to connect to the standard 50 pin connector for a 3,5 Inch HDD. This is not exactly the price region we desired, but exactly the footprint and function we want.
To provide SD card support one could use a cheap CF-SD card adaptor (like DeLOCK CF Adapter for SD(SDHC/MMC, for less than USD 10). Such connector should also allow to connect an extension cable to a SD card slot for external access }
The benchmark results given on that page are impressive. The predecessor CF PowerMonster works well in any old Macintosh. Did someone ask for availability, yet?
To provide SD card support one could use a cheap CF-SD card adaptor (like DeLOCK CF Adapter for SD(SDHC/MMC, for less than USD 10). Such connector should also allow to connect an extension cable to a SD card slot for external access }
The benchmark results given on that page are impressive. The predecessor CF PowerMonster works well in any old Macintosh. Did someone ask for availability, yet?
I have ordered several of the 2.5" to CF card adapters, from Artmix. I'm expecting them sometime, in the next few weeks.
I was told that my order will come from production samples, and that full production should commence soon, after, so hopefully the price will come down.
Indeed, $129 USD is the price.
Thanks!
- Alex
I was told that my order will come from production samples, and that full production should commence soon, after, so hopefully the price will come down.
Indeed, $129 USD is the price.
Thanks!
- Alex
sweet, let us know how they do when you get them... I'll have to put in an order as soon as I get some cashola.
Does Artmix accept email orders in English? I could really use one of these for my new (to me) PowerBook 180c, but I can't make a lot of sense out of their site.
Yes, they do accept orders, in English.
The site is definitely readable, when run through Google translate, BTW.
- Alex
The site is definitely readable, when run through Google translate, BTW.
- Alex