Thread
IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™
There's a simple solution to your cabling setup, uni.
If any RCRII/IIsi hacker lacks a MultiSync Pivoting LCD Display, 16" Mac Video is likely your best bet . . .
. . . though there are exceptions! }
Procedure:
1) desolder the ThinNet connector on the NIC's I/O card to free up its hole on the cover plate
2) lop the HD-15 connector off one end of a thin, flexible VGA cable
3) route that cable end through the hole and bend it around/past the NIC's I/O card
I haven't worked out the diagram, but it should be simple enough
4) pull plenty of wire through the access path for elbow room
5) do your Macintosh -> VGA adaptation in-cable, actually ON-cable would be a better description
______solder as many of the stripped, straight thru VGA connections as possible directly to the Pivot Card
______wire sense line jumper Voodoo as needed at the same junction point
6) test until you've got everything set up perfectly
7) pull slack back through the access point until it's just so and strain relieve it with hot glue
Results: a "string" of PDS cards that are linked together by the VGA Cable, but removable from IIsi or SE/30 by pulling the VGA cable through.
If you're anywhere near as irreverent about Mac hardware, peripherals and expansion card as I am when it comes to keeping them stock/pristine, which is a good bet if you've followed this NiC hackin' post to this point, you might also consider using a nibbler on the flat side of the NIC's backplane cover plate so the cards won't be strung together at all, or not. I'll likely wait for a good reason to munch that section out of my NIC's @$$ end.
I've got several of the Asante Mac Con 30ie MCPT cards with the highly valued PDS passthru connector (the SE/30 crowd is in love with these things) and convenient, removable ThickNet passthru section I posted earlier in the thread.
However, I'll almost certainly be using this method with my SSI NIC in the SuperIIsi™ for a variety of reasons. It's a less valuable card because it lacks the PDS passthru, which is a big plus in my application because tall RA connector will not be adversely impacting the level of the cards flat stacked very closely across the solder side of the IIsi MoBo. Its I/O PCB will work out better for the Rocket/SCSI_II DaughterCard installation. It looks like I can cut the large AUI section out of the I/O card PCB for access to the SCSI_II connector and I'll still have the 10bT connector on one side and the VGA Cable conveniently coming out the other side of the )somewhat subterranean) SCSI_II connector.
Dunno, we'll see, this thread started as a single component subset of my SuperIIsi™ project . . .
. . . along with my burning curiosity about proving macmetex' SE/30 compatibility theory . . .
. . . thereby increasing the value of his buckets-o-pivot cards! :lol:
No connection to seller other than as an sometime email pal and obvious seller/customer relationship on eBay, BTW.
Greyscale:
the sync signals have to be inverted, so youll need a 74HC04 of some sorts on the H/V Sync going to the monitor. Unless you modify the AB to accept straight signalling.
Also the video amplifier stage is a shunt-peaked based design which will work fine with an analog signal, however, the NAND gate that couples it has to be unhooked, as the NAND gate is digital. greyscale is analog. Once the nand is unhooked from the circuit, and the video amp is coupled directly to the signal coming from the video card, it in theory should work fine. Also the R-G-B signals need mixed with 3 100ohm resistors tied together into the video amplifier stage.
For Added bonus points: Run these signals, including the SENSE signals in analog muxing circuitry employing 4053s. This will allow you to switch the internal greyscale off back into standard on-board video and route to the external video connector. So if you dont want greyscale, you can switch it back to normal and use an external color monitor, by the flip of a toggle-switch.
the sync signals have to be inverted, so youll need a 74HC04 of some sorts on the H/V Sync going to the monitor. Unless you modify the AB to accept straight signalling.
Also the video amplifier stage is a shunt-peaked based design which will work fine with an analog signal, however, the NAND gate that couples it has to be unhooked, as the NAND gate is digital. greyscale is analog. Once the nand is unhooked from the circuit, and the video amp is coupled directly to the signal coming from the video card, it in theory should work fine. Also the R-G-B signals need mixed with 3 100ohm resistors tied together into the video amplifier stage.
For Added bonus points: Run these signals, including the SENSE signals in analog muxing circuitry employing 4053s. This will allow you to switch the internal greyscale off back into standard on-board video and route to the external video connector. So if you dont want greyscale, you can switch it back to normal and use an external color monitor, by the flip of a toggle-switch.
Are you saying it might be possible to hack the connector cable interface a/o the A/B to output 128 brightness levels on a pixel by pixel basis to the stock CRT cathode board?
Might any of this be useful? http://www.dsbelec.iinet.net.au/amplifoneDB.htm
Might any of this be useful? http://www.dsbelec.iinet.net.au/amplifoneDB.htm
Possible? its probable. Back in 2005 i think it was, I was modifying an SE analog board to run VGA, I never was fully successful because the resonance of the horizontal circuit isnt compatible with the VGA signalling and caused serious linearity issues, but vertical worked. And the picture was perfectly fine grayscale wise with the original video amplifier.
Cool Beans! I might even end up wanting a Grayscale/External Color Monitor (second RCPII/IIsi) SE/30 just to stuff some of my toys into! ;D
Grayscale on the Micron Xceed
That shows the schematic of the Micron video board, which would work perfectly if we replicate it.
That shows the schematic of the Micron video board, which would work perfectly if we replicate it.
Awesome.. looks like there there is a cable too...
I think the easiest thing for me to do, as I have a scrap plus here, I can use the CRT Socket from the plus, to go to a video amp board employing that circuit. In theory, it should work just fine. As long as I can set the ID codes to 512x342. Since the plus doesnt use a PCB, and only a socket with wires I can use that.
Why is the plus scrap? Well I have another plus, the front has a nice split/crack in it, the flyback anode cap is broken, and most of the caps are bad. So hey, why not?
Why is the plus scrap? Well I have another plus, the front has a nice split/crack in it, the flyback anode cap is broken, and most of the caps are bad. So hey, why not?
I'm glad I checked every possibility for the RCPII/IIsi on that first page, 12" RGB is turning out to be its hottest feature. I've yet to see any mention of the card at all, other than the radius Vintage Documents page. Nothing about it on LEM and I can't find anything on it on everymac. Has anyone got any kind of info on it?
Found another doozie reviewing the linked page:
Can't even check the card models against the software, AFAIK. I'll be back in the HackLab later in the week.
Can anyone check this out beforehand? :?:
Found another doozie reviewing the linked page:
I'm in Philly, nowhere near my toys to test this, I'm wondering if we can squeeze 16bit Color out of the Pivot Card at 816x640? It does the 870x640 Portrait Res in 8bit just fine. With the right pivot software, we might coax landscape 816x640@16bit out of the Pivot card and onto a MultiSync CRT or LCD screen, dunno. I'll have to try it out on the 1600x1200 20"MultiSync Pivot LCD, that's pretty darn close to a 3x4 aspect ratio.
Can't even check the card models against the software, AFAIK. I'll be back in the HackLab later in the week.
Can anyone check this out beforehand? :?:
i have great news… talked to the seller… there are going to be more IIsiColorPivot cards listed… soon.
niceification. Bet they wont be the same price.
I let him know the good news, as well. Sure, he'll raise the price a bit, heck I've only been trying to get someone to get it to work in the SE/30 for him since February, 2012 and he's been selling them for next to peanuts the whole time.
He has some left and lots of the SuperMac PDS adapters. He's been good to the entire RetroMac community since long before there ever really was something to call that! :approve:
He has some left and lots of the SuperMac PDS adapters. He's been good to the entire RetroMac community since long before there ever really was something to call that! :approve:
Thats awesome. Its people like that, who has a surplus of stuff to sell cheaply, Allows this to happen in the first place.
how long was it going to take for someone to get out the loppers and lop of a hunk of the card, if i wouldn't have?
Dunno, uni, but you did do it and it worked out great! 
Is there room for a second RCPII/IIsi to be plugged into the first? Looks to me like you wouldn't need the loppers if the card were just one PDS Displacement Unit farther forward.
Props to macmetex! :approve:
Is there room for a second RCPII/IIsi to be plugged into the first? Looks to me like you wouldn't need the loppers if the card were just one PDS Displacement Unit farther forward.
Exactly! He even mentioned that he felt like he's been a part of the achievement. Heck, he's the one who suggested the very notion of the SE/30 compatibility of this card. I'd say he was the founding member of the project team, not a mere part of it.
Props to macmetex! :approve:
he ought to try and sell the cards here instead of ebay, he would save the listing and value fees.
ok so i tried this IIsi radius card in the Iici and the CACHE PDS SLOT must be electrically incompatible SE/30 - IIsi PDS …
the IIsi psu boots up the main board w/o the video card plugged in though..
[attachment=1]Screen Shot 2013-12-26 at 9.02.01 AM.png[/attachment]
[attachment=0]Screen Shot 2013-12-26 at 9.01.53 AM.png[/attachment]
the IIsi psu boots up the main board w/o the video card plugged in though..
[attachment=1]Screen Shot 2013-12-26 at 9.02.01 AM.png[/attachment]
[attachment=0]Screen Shot 2013-12-26 at 9.01.53 AM.png[/attachment]
Yea, the IIci cache card connector is entirely different pinout, Just like the LC to SE/30. Needs a cross-pin converter PCB. But as far as that goes, all the signals for the 030PDS is there.
There are a few differences though, Such as the output enable/select lines for the cache card in the correct address space.
P.S. Designing cards and drivers for the macintosh family, Is on the googlez if you look for it. I wont link it as per the rules.
There are a few differences though, Such as the output enable/select lines for the cache card in the correct address space.
P.S. Designing cards and drivers for the macintosh family, Is on the googlez if you look for it. I wont link it as per the rules.
The IIci Cache Slot is a freakin' mess, not a PDS slot per se. DayStar made at least a baker's dozen REAL PDS Slot to flakola IIci Cache Slot Converters.
The one we need to reverse engineer is logic on the DayStar SE/30 adapter. That will be almost exactly the same logic needed for a IIsi adapter. I've got a lot of respect for the Japanese Gent who makes that tall adapter, but anything like that needs a second a/o third PDS Pass Thru Connector before I'd call it ready for prime time. Right now it has exactly ONE pass thru and a converted SE/30_PDS->IIci_Cache Slot available, not nearly good enough as compared to what can be achieved given the Gamba Diagrams. [}] ]'>
The one we need to reverse engineer is logic on the DayStar SE/30 adapter. That will be almost exactly the same logic needed for a IIsi adapter. I've got a lot of respect for the Japanese Gent who makes that tall adapter, but anything like that needs a second a/o third PDS Pass Thru Connector before I'd call it ready for prime time. Right now it has exactly ONE pass thru and a converted SE/30_PDS->IIci_Cache Slot available, not nearly good enough as compared to what can be achieved given the Gamba Diagrams. [}
] ]'>
It strikes me you shouldn't need any electronics to make a pds expander for the se30. (Emf type filtering aside).
A simple pcb with one male right angle and two female straight din's appropriately spaced should let you put two non-passthru type cards in where the hard drive lives. You repo the hdd on it's side and presto...
Would likely only work for non-accelerator cards but hey.
A simple pcb with one male right angle and two female straight din's appropriately spaced should let you put two non-passthru type cards in where the hard drive lives. You repo the hdd on it's side and presto...
Would likely only work for non-accelerator cards but hey.
I've also noticed things seem to slow up a bit when driving two video cards. (However I've got that crazy address decode prob and have 4 monitors showing)
However, if you pull out the onboard declrom, then make the rcpii screen primary, the thing is quite snappy.
Now considering you don't use onboard video at all, replacing the crystal witha 40mhz jobbie should be possible.
the grayscale conversion would be the super bonus. An affordable, 20mhz, grayscale se30 with network card anyone?
However, if you pull out the onboard declrom, then make the rcpii screen primary, the thing is quite snappy.
Now considering you don't use onboard video at all, replacing the crystal witha 40mhz jobbie should be possible.
the grayscale conversion would be the super bonus. An affordable, 20mhz, grayscale se30 with network card anyone?
drools
lolWhy would you do that? Are you determined to break things?
Why do you keep saying that? Every PDS implementation has had a different pinout. That doesn't make it "not a PDS", when:
Heck, it's more of a P.D.S. than any of the bridged "LC PDS compatible" slots in the post-030 Performas, which aren't Processor Direct Slots.
Because it's not, per se. A Cache Slot is more and less than a PDS slot at the same time.
A Cache Slot may have most of the features of a PDS, even more. These slots do have all of the same signals and may be a whole lot better than a PDS Slot in the same machine for some uses.
It was Apple who made this distinction, the first PDS was in the SE. Cache slots were introduced in the IIci and are for cache, without documentation for, or the requisite access to, utility outside the box.
By contrast, a PDS slot was well documented by Apple and intended for real world expansion by second source card manufacturers, even in the cases where it was intentionally hamstrung to limit Low End Macs from competing with the high end, as techknight pointed out..
I saw a mention of it somewhere…
I didn't come up with the idea on my own
I had my hand on the power cord, pull it real quick if the power button did nothing.
cool his new ebay ad brought me here.
SE/30 Hack Project - Radius Color Pivot IIsi Video Interface Card - Apple Mac
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SE-30-Hack-Project-Radius-Color-Pivot-IIsi-Video-Interface-Card-Apple-Mac/310833857791?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D3840795742598591717%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D151117999850%26
SE/30 Hack Project - Radius Color Pivot IIsi Video Interface Card - Apple Mac
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SE-30-Hack-Project-Radius-Color-Pivot-IIsi-Video-Interface-Card-Apple-Mac/310833857791?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D3840795742598591717%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D151117999850%26
man those sold out fast..
Someone bought the lot... grrr.....
Can someone summarize where you guys are on this thread? Will this get an SE/30 internl gray scale graphics and the ability to put in a cheap ethernet card or am I mixing up a few threads?
Well, Once you start something on this forum, it creates a demand in sales. Kinda how it is ;-)
Your mixing up both threads and posts. No this wont get you grayscale. it will get you external color, thats it. It will require modification which I am still working on, to get grayscale. And you need to get a IIsi PDS extender, and hack the card to get it to fit.
Your mixing up both threads and posts. No this wont get you grayscale. it will get you external color, thats it. It will require modification which I am still working on, to get grayscale. And you need to get a IIsi PDS extender, and hack the card to get it to fit.