Thread

IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™

IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™ Hardware 215 posts Jul 14, 2011 — Jan 31, 2014

#1 Thu, 14 Jul 2011 - 08:02

Package received & I've been testing the SE/30 Direct Slot Color Pivot Cable from the Big@$$NuBus&PDScardLot™ with GREAT SUCCESS! [

] ]'>

It's exactly the same cable needed for macmetex's Radius IIsi Color Pivot II/PDS PassThru Cards!

Initial Test Results/First Draft of IIsi Color Pivot II Report:

_________________________________________________________________

Initial tests & second run tests done using HDD Q700 w/NO IIsi specific install done as yet . . . :/

Tests Run under OS 7.5.1

NO RadiusWare drivers installed on HDD . . . yet!

_________________________________________________________________

First round of tests done on expendable 21" MAG Innovision MX21F using Mac DA-19 Input

_________________________________________________________________

Straight thru (two cables tested) Mac Video Cable Results:

______640 x 480 x 66 Hz @ 8 Bit - 13"/14" RGB (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_________________________________________________________________

Same cable with ENHANCE Liberty Dial DA-19 -> DA-19 Adapter Results:

_"J"___640 x 480 x 66 Hz @ 8 Bit - 13"/14" RGB (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"F"___832 x 624 x 75 Hz @ 8 Bit - 16" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Chimes of Death:

_"A"___OPEN

_"D"___1024 x 768 x_?_Hz - 19" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"G"____640 x 480/800 x 600 x_?_Hz - VGA/SVGA

_"P"___1152 x 870 x_?_Hz - 21" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"M"___1152 x 870 x_?_Hz - Apple 2 Page Mono (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"M"____640 x 480 x_?_Hz - LC VGA (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Boots w/NO Video:

_"O"___870 x 640 x_?_Hz - Apple Portrait (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Out of Sync/Horizontally Banded partial Image:

_"N"___512 x 384 x_?_Hz - 12" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

UNTESTED:

_"H"___ PAL

_"L"___NTSC

_________________________________________________________________

Second round of tests done using near unobtanium Radius PrecisionView 2150

_________________________________________________________________

HD-15 -> 5 BNC Cable with ENHANCE Liberty Dial DA-19 -> HD-15 Adapter

_________________________________________________________________

_"J"___640 x 480 x 66 Hz @ 8 Bit - 13"/14" RGB (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"F"___832 x 624 x 75 Hz @ 8 Bit - 16" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"N"___512 x 384 x_?_Hz @ 8 Bit - 12" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Stretched COLOR Video:

_"O"___640 x 870 x_?_Hz @ 8 Bit - Apple Portrait (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

Chimes of Death WITH DELAYED VIDEO & Radius Logo/No Boot:

_"A"___OPEN

_"D"___1024 x 768 x_?_Hz - 19" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"G"____640 x 480/800 x 600 x_?_Hz - VGA/SVGA

_"P"___1152 x 870 x_?_Hz - 21" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"M"__ 1152 x 870 x_?_Hz - Apple 2 Page Mono (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

_"M"____640 x 480 x_?_Hz - LC VGA (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

UNTESTED:

_"H"___ PAL

_"L"___NTSC

_________________________________________________________________

I need to repeat the first run of testing on the MAG 21" CRT, as I may very well have shut down the IIsi before the Delayed Video Display appeared onscreen.

I'll test using the HD-15->5 BNC Cable with ENHANCE Liberty Dial DA-19->HD-15 Adapter on BOTH Monitors . . .

. . . just for $#1^$-n-giggles!

)

_________________________________________________________________

Adapter Free Custom Cable Pinouts/Diagrams to be posted when I have some "private time" with my continuity tester! [

] ]'>

The SE/30 Card has an ID conflict with the IIsi Card when used together . . .

. . . but there are jumpers on the IIsi Card to be tested! }

I'll have to find an extra SCSI HDD to load with 7.0.1/TuneUp "For any Macintosh" and load the proper RadiusWare™ Drivers to see if any or even all those Video-no-Boot situations are remedied. I don't have any specs handy . . .

. . . but we MIGHT be able to coax 19" Color outta these puppies!

I was happier'n-a-pig-in-poop when I got 16" Color @ 8 Bit on the first test-go-round! [

] ]'>

Pics-n-stuff to be posted later! :approve:

#2 Thu, 21 Jul 2011 - 16:49

Thanks to macmetex's mention of the PCI Futura Card info in an auction on the Mainly Neat Stuff site, I've rediscovered this gem of a site!

It appears as though someone has been hard at work entering the Vintage Radius Documents content. Back in the day, there were a lot of WIP links on this page. Now the info is handy and when I find my Radius Q&A FaxBack Paper Records, I'll check to see if I can forward any additional content! I won't need to post all/any of it myself! [

] ]'>

Meanwhile:

Here's the Color Pivots (#0277/0233) Q&A info, which confirms my research info and lets me know that I can safely hook up my APD directly to one of these cards with my stock APD Cable! [

] ]'>

I thought it'd be fine, but its near unobtanium status kept me from testing this config on my precious Radius OEM'd APD/Desktop RFI Generation Unit!

Q: Is my pivot card compatible with other displays?
A: The color pivot cards will drive a standard fifteen-inch portrait display, and since the cards also support an 832x624 resolution, they will also work with some 16 or 17-inch Macintosh compatible displays. Naturally, the displays won't pivot, but you will have a proper image.

Interestingly enough, this document doesn't mention:

_"N"___512 x 384 x_?_Hz @ 8 Bit - 12" Color (Fixed Res Mac Monitor Standard)

. . . which I discovered during testing, which will probably protect my functional 12" RGB CRT from hackage as a IIsiHackTopper until it dies of natural causes . . . [}

] ]'>

If anybody has an SE/30 that's in need of an extended desktop (apparently, this class would include ALL SE/30s, the stock 9" single bit periscope being as unsuitable for any serious work as was the case of my SE/Radius 16 GraphicsWorkStation back in the day!) I'd like to verify that these cards will run fine in the '/30. I can't imagine they won't and they'd be a LOT more useful in a '/30 than the SE/30 Direct slot version of the card! [

] ]'> I cannot imagine that there's not a far more elegant SE/30 Multicard solution than the kluges posted on gamba or that there can't be a way to create a new approach to the megabuck 3 PDS slot adapter card documented there! [}

] ]'>

Now, with this new Q&A info uncovered, I can forgo any further testing . . .

. . . and move right on to building a few "direct connection" adapted/replacement cables! :approve:

. . . and LCD testing! :approve:

. . . to be continued! :lol:

edit: Meanwhile I haven't posted this link yet: Radius Color Pivot IIsi Interface Card

n.b. other than being a good customer for a great eBay seller and having an on & off email pal in the process, I've got no connection with his auctions other than lusting after, and buying way too much of, the MacStuff in his store! [

] ]'>

#3 Sat, 23 Jul 2011 - 04:48

More Test Results:

Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi DB-15 -> (Apple) Macintosh Portrait Display cable -> Macintosh Portrait Display = AOK!

Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi DB-15 -> Standard (Apple) Macintosh Display cable -> AppleColor HiRes RGB Monitor = AOK!

Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi DB-15 -> Standard (Apple) Macintosh Display cable -> 16" Mac Moni . . . untested, no gots . . .

Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi DB-15 -> Standard (Apple) Macintosh Display cable -> Macintosh 12" RGB Display = AOK!

LCD Results:

__Dell 20" 1600 x 1200 Pivoting LCD:

______At (F on the dial) 16" Color: Flashes beautiful desktop display briefly during auto-adjustment, but can't hold sync.

______At (J on the dial) 13"/14" RGB: can't hold sync at all.

______At (O on the dial) 15" Macintosh Portrait Display: No image at all.

______At (J on the dial) Macintosh 12" RGB: Displayis fine, but interpolating this resolution causes jitter left to right.

__ViewSonic VP920b 19" 1280-1024 Pivoting LCD:

______At (F on the dial) 16" Color: AOK!

______At (J on the dial) 13"/14" RGB: AOK!

______At (O on the dial) 15" Macintosh Portrait Display: No image at all.

______At (J on the dial) Macintosh 12" RGB: Display is fine, but interpolating this resolution causes jitter left to right.

Ergo: This Color Pivot II Card will Work with LCDs, but you're gonna have to test to find the right LCD! :approve:

#4 Sat, 23 Jul 2011 - 16:16

Excellent news! I just nabbed two of macmetex's cards. }

#5 Sat, 23 Jul 2011 - 17:56

LOL! I was beginning to think nobody was reading this thread! [

] ]'>

I've still got a "couple" more LCDs to test yet! I'd imagine a 3/4 aspect ratio rather than a 4/5 aspect ratio would be key. I can't wait to test it on my 32" 720p TV, it seems to run anything I throw at it.

#6 Sun, 24 Jul 2011 - 14:52

Well, the big 720p TV/Monitor doesn't sync, it must be like my HP LCDs, they'll all letterbox anything my Macs throw at them . . .

. . . so long as it's at 60Hz.

I was almost certain that all the early Mac Fixed Resolution Video Standards pre-dated the VGA Standard, but I was mistaken . . .

. . . sort of. :

Luckily, as I was pulling the fifth edition of Upgrading and Repairing PCs, I remembered all the Wikepedia links that have started popping up in Firefox (?) here and on other sites. While researching, I ran across the Computer display standard page there.

< edit: AHA! it works! :approve: >

Very interesting timeline . . . it indirectly (sort of) confirms my notion that a 3/4 (4/3?) aspect ratio will be helpful in looking for a compatible LCD.

Dunno, don't care, I've found one of mine that works!

I've got my trio of beige 21" TPDs: a MAG Innovision MX21F with its handy resolution/frequency LCD readout, my trusty Radius PrecisionView 2150 and the ViewSonic Graphics Series G810 that's in Portrait Mode (liberated at a thrift, missing its tilt-n-swivel base) along with Black Beauty, my ViewSonic Professional Series P225f 22" MultiSync CRT.

The HackStation workhorse is the 17" Sony Multiscan from my son's old bedroom A/V/homework station. There are also three of the four Apple CRTs that work with this card, including the two that were designed to sit upon of the IIsi/'za boxen/IIci/Q700 form factors in my collection.

Feel free to post specs/brand/model names of compatible LCDs any of you comrades might identify here, for the rest of the gang. [

] ]'>

I'm moving on to network confirmation and slot address issues concerning use of the NuBus Adapter along with these two cards. After that, I'll be working up the hardwired connection (no adapter required) pinouts for anyone involved in this little project. These will allow comrades everywhere to build any of the four cables/adapters for the tested/documented resolutions of the Color Pivot II/IIsi and the SE/30 Direct Slot Cards . . .

. . . and THEN . . . the real fun begins! }

#7 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 - 21:38

Piccies!

rcp2iisicolorcoding2pos.jpg.c7ae1ec174efac66f2dfc1377f98f2da.jpg

Having done a little sense line hacking back when I bought a pair of cables for my Macintosh Portrait Display that didn't work as labeled, I'm positive the paired/split wires lead to sense lines on the DB-15 Connector.

Having collected a friggin' boatload of Radius Products, I'll hazard a guess that that orange line is driven high or low depending on the position of the Pivot Monitor. That leaves just five remaining lines for me to buzz . . .

. . . that almost certainly lead to matching color coded wires on my HD-15 <-> 5 BNC connector video cable. :lol:

We'll see Sunday night! :approve:

rcp2iisicrystalcan2post.jpg.65fd5a89cd537cd31ae2f09fc996362c.jpg

KnuckleDraggin'HardwareHacker's Brute Force Approach to a, crystal can swap, down-clock of 16" 75Hz Fixed Res Output to a 60Hz LCD friendly Output solution for the RCP2IIsi Card.

Any suggestions from my electron-pushin' comrades? :?:

pdsconnectordonorcard2p.jpg.552f162daeffa634dafe07572a0c93d5.jpg

PDS Connector Donor Card(s)

Next step in my shot at a MultiCard IIsi Hack will be to de-solder the RA Female PDA connector on the Donor Card to replace the de-soldered Straight PDS PassThru Connector on the RCP2/IIsi card! [}

] ]'>

Expect to see a pic of the MacCon Card sticking straight up from the RPD2/IIsi Card sometime in the next week or so! [}

] ]'>

Anybody care to guess what card is slated to be tested next "Outside the Box?" :?:

#8 Fri, 29 Jul 2011 - 23:14

If anybody has an SE/30 that's in need of an extended desktop (apparently, this class would include ALL SE/30s, the stock 9" single bit periscope being as unsuitable for any serious work as was the case of my SE/Radius 16 GraphicsWorkStation back in the day!) I'd like to verify that these cards will run fine in the '/30. I can't imagine they won't and they'd be a LOT more useful in a '/30 than the SE/30 Direct slot version of the card! [] ]'> I cannot imagine that there's not a far more elegant SE/30 Multicard solution than the kluges posted on gamba or that there can't be a way to create a new approach to the megabuck 3 PDS slot adapter card documented there! [}] ]'>

I've got one, I was looking for a VGA output. I don't even care if it's got color. Just something I can hook up to a presenter. In fact, it would probably be best at just 1-bit. 4-bit greyscale can be fine, it's that long ago we had a SE/30 with a Color PDS card, and I noted a slight performance hit. (Besides as everybody knows here, you can still make high-class presentations in HyperCard all in B&W! Couple that with a good lecture and few might forget it?!)

Even better if it can work with my Ethernet adapter.

#9 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 - 06:53

Even better if it can work with my Ethernet adapter.

Good news . . . check above, I edited in the SE/30 Config, a development step of my IIsi Hack!

Bad news: No VGA is possible with the "stock" RCP2/IIsi Card.

Interesting question: can a DownClocking Crystal Can Hack spit 640 x 480 x 8 bit @ 60 Hz outta' those headers? :?:

Dunno, I'm eagerly waiting to hear from one of our EE type comrades! :I

#10 Sat, 30 Jul 2011 - 23:19

LOL! I was beginning to think nobody was reading this thread! [] ]'>

There's a "viewed" counter for each topic in the forum index, and in the "new topics" listing. This one is pretty popular.

can a DownClocking Crystal Can Hack spit 640 x 480 x 8 bit @ 60 Hz outta' those headers? :?:

Dunno - why not socket and see?

)

#11 Sun, 31 Jul 2011 - 04:55

The counter just indicates that a lot of comrades have peeked. I was wondering how many, if any, were actually reading/following the thread and how many just give it a look over, shake their heads at it, and go on to other topics.

I work best in collaboration, that's why I post as I go, looking for input as to how to make the testing, and then the hacking, easier to accomplish.

I really don't understand the timing clock thing, some crystal values to try to get the resolutions mentioned, or even advice that I'm barking up the wrong tree, would be a HUGE help to me. I was thinking a three crystal can PCB, with DIP Switch activation/deactivation of a couple of test values and the stock Crystal, might make a dandy lil' addition to this card.

Dunno, that's why I asked for HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :approve:

#12 Mon, 1 Aug 2011 - 05:42

5bnccolorcoding2post.jpg.3c418042cb8931015f3f20b56b880476.jpg

Here's the Color coding for the 5 BNC Cable, I'll buz the connections ASAP, maybe tonight!

ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8-o

So much for my powers of guesstimation . . .

. . . . Green is the only BNC connector wire that's connected to the matching wire on the cable for the card! :disapprove:

iCrap!!!!!! It looks like I found a second crystal . . . is that what CR1, the three legged thingamajig next to the cable connector is?

rcp2iisicr12p0st.jpg.4b865c905a542407ae5364b1c36422c6.jpg

If CR1 a crystal, these tiny bast . . . . erm . . . components . . . marked CR are probably crystals too! :-/

rcp2iisitinycrystals2p.jpg.039bda72abe22f76add280a9c2b5426f.jpg

I think I need to drop back 15 and PUNT!!!!!!!

G'night! xx(

#13 Mon, 1 Aug 2011 - 13:38

CR1 is a Voltage Reference.

It's basically an IC that provides a fixed reference point for the voltages sent along the signal path, as far as I can make out.

The LM185/LM285/LM385 are micropower 3-terminal adjustable band-gap voltage reference diodes. Operating from 1.24 to 5.3V and over a 10 mA to 20 mA current range, they feature exceptionally low dynamic impedance and good temperature stability. On-chip trimming is used to provide tight voltage tolerance. Since the LM185 band-gap reference uses only transistors and resistors, low noise and good long-term stability result.

FWIW Crystals tend to be marked X or XTAL, Oscillator cans (four-pins) and Resonators (those weird things that look like three-pin tantalum slugs) tend to be OSC.

I have no idea what CR could designate here.

#14 Mon, 1 Aug 2011 - 14:09

Thanks! Now if somebody can offer a crystal replacement spec . . .

#15 Tue, 6 Sep 2011 - 02:58

As an avid Radius collector, I couldn't pass up this (Darker Than PowerBook [] ]'&gt Gray LCD on eBay.

It's a very nice example of an early 15" LCD that has its roots in both the Mac and VGA Video Worlds.The Mac Connector opening has sheet metal behind it . . .

. . . but the LCD still syncs to ALL the resolutions put out by IIsiRadiusColorPivotII & IIsi! [] ]'>

Native Rez is higher at 1024 x 768! :approve:

Here's a lower angle shot of the first mating of subterranean components for the SuperIIsiHack™ underway!

iisiradiuscpiiflatsuper.jpg.d696c60ba54b3572995a8fa8c9ede13a.jpg

trag's EuroDIN connectors arrived, I have to solder this one down to the SuperMac PDS Adapter and then munch the semi-desoldered PDS connector off one of my Color Pivot IIs a/o a NIC.

First test after soldering the connector on the SuperMac PDS Adapter will be to stack the IIsi NuBus Adapter . . .

. . . atop the modded SuperMac Card with a NuBus Card installed! }

#16 Thu, 22 Sep 2011 - 04:45

Good news:

Resin cleanup, soldering and buzzing the connections were successful. :beige:

The cards mate up and the CP2/IIsi runs very well stacked under or above the SuperMac PDS Adapter!

Fair news:

I had some "rolling" of the KDS/Radius LCD's display at 16" . . . :-/ . . . a few frames were out of sync and the top edge of the screen climbed up the overall display in an erratic manner at times. It seems to be under control now, dunno . . . feces occur!

Relatively bad, but not entirely bad news:

NuBus Card installed in PDS Card Stack locked the system up.

Spent some time playing around with the RCP2/IIsi's Addressing jumpers and found a second address after getting some VERY strange results! Some settings bombed, several booted just fine, but immobilized the mouse cursor, but NOT the mouse button.

Tried the NuBus Adapter in the PDS Card Stack with the new RCP2/IIsi PseudoSlot ID: same results.

Back to basics!

Tested just the NuBus Adapter and IIsi booted up normally.

Installed Mac II Hi Rez VidCard and a second monitor: Vampire Video and VidCard worked fine.

Back to test I should have run first! :

NuBus Adapter plugged directly into RCP2/IIsi's passthru connector hangs the system too.

OOPSIE!!!!!!!!!!!! :I

Time to check out the docs on the /NuBus Signal on pin 2C of the IIsi's PDS. :approve:

Docs show it as n.c. on the SE/30, so adding a NuBus Card to the /30 looks to be problematic, but that's just a curiosity for me, not part of my hacking plans! [

] ]'>

Luckily, my plan calls for the PDS Cards to be mounted to the PDS underneath the MoBo . . .

. . . with the NuBus adapter mounted conventionally in the MoBo's PDS Connector.

I guess it's time to order some solder paste for the subterranian Machine Pin Mounting Mod! }

Luckily, I snagged that empty IIsi shell off eBay before some PC Modder did something unspeakable to it.

Now I can chop an access port outta the bottom for the subterranian PDS Cards! :lol:

#17 Tue, 25 Oct 2011 - 19:00

Hey Trash, in your searching, did you find a pin-out for the Radius Color Pivot IIsi & SE/30 cable? Thanks!

#18 Tue, 25 Oct 2011 - 19:24

Thanks for reminding me! I've still got to noodle that one out, a lot of the wires are tied together.

Has anybody got the Color Pivot II Monitor, Software and Manual for either the NuBus or '030 PDS Cards to add to my research data collection? :?:

#19 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 - 05:07

I'd already started to noodle this out when CelGen posted the Pivot mono + Pivot color card? thread.

zuiko21 posted some encouraging Oscilloscope Data on this Card/Cable Combo project . . .

. . . so I took another look at the RCPII/IIsi Cable again tonight. :b&w:

If you buzz the connections pin for pin they map straight to the DA-15 Female's pins 1 thru 15 with pin 8 as N.C.

But it's a tad more complicated than that:

There are 8 discrete connections:

pin 3 = ___yellow__ = CSYNC

pin 4 = ___gray____ = Monitor sense signal 0

pin 7 = ___blue____ = Monitor sense signal 1

pin 10 = __purple__ = Monitor sense signal 2

pin 11 = __green___ = CSYNC and VSYNC ground

pin 12 = __orange__ = VSYNC

pin 14 = __black___ = HSYNC ground

pin 15 = __red_____ = HSYNC

The other connections are 3 much heavier wires that branch to two pins each and are color coded: BLACK, BROWN and RED

The splits of these branches are each composed of a black wire and a clear wire.

pin 1 = BLACK/black = Red ground

pin 2 = BLACK/clear = Red signal

pin 5 = BROWN/clear = Green signal

pin 6 = BROWN/black = Green ground

pin 9 = __RED_/clear = Blue signal

pin 13 = _RED_/black = Blue ground

. . . of these connections: pins 1, 6, 13 & 14 are all tied to ground on the RCPII/IIsi PCB as stated earlier.

I hope this pic from above explains things better . . .

Pin 1 is on the left.

edit: I just filled in all the signals and color-coded the pin connections to match the wires in the pic.

Pinout info from mediawiki/Macintosh VGA (I couldn't find GttMFH2e) which gives a leg up on going straight from the RCPII/IIsi Card's Headers to a VGA-out HD-15 connector . . .

. . . IF we can underclock the card to VGA's 60Hz Sync Rate for using this card with modern LCDs. See: UNDERClocking a Video Card??????

I feel better, it all makes more sense to me now . . . sorry for the wait gang. :-/

#20 Wed, 22 Feb 2012 - 22:32

The tag with the part number fell off the ___SE/30___??????___ Cable Documented above . . . sooooo . . .

P/N 630/0265

I have no idea what the part number for the RCPII/IIsi Cable might be, but this one gets along famously with it! :approve:

More Radius Video Cable Part Numbers and Pinouts, etc:

Radius Cables

Radius Video Cards

Radius Monitors

Accelerators Index

All from Vintage Radius Documents in Vintage Macintosh on Mainly Neat Stuff

The Radius Q&A Documents are on there too

#21 Sat, 25 Feb 2012 - 03:25

Here is zuiko21's post from the other thread

Re: Pivot mono + Pivot color card?
Post by zuiko21 » 13 Feb 2012, 17:05

Now that you mentioned the Radius Color Pivot IIsi...

I got one of these, without the external connector. According to my probing with the 'scope, the 15-pin header on it matches Apple's DA-15 socket, as commonly numbered -- at least, grounds are where they should and so are the sync signals; and the R, G & B channels supply signal out of the sync periods. But no matter what sense code I hooked, it seems to send a horizontal sync of about 69 kHz -- compatible with both 21" and Portrait modes. Couldn't get my 'scope to hold on vertical sync, so I can't confirm if it's 75 Hz or whatever.

On the software side, the card shows up on Slot Info as slot 9 or A, depending on the JP1 setting. But not in the Monitors control panel Testing done on a IIsi via the built-in video.

BTW, a Dayna E/si30 ethernet card I have (also without connectors) hooked to the pass-thru PDS on the Radius, will prevent booting at all, no matter the jumper settings. The Dayna alone shows up fine as Slot 9.

This is the information that (gave me a kick in the pants and) got me moving toward nailing down the cable pinout spec. posted above for the IIsi Color Pivot II PDS Card which is the subject of this thread.

As for building a cable:

Who, me? The problem is that I don't have any cable between the card's pin header and an external connector...

Now we've got you posting in the correct thread . . . hopefully! :approve:

I'll try cutting a (long) female pin header and soldering the cables on the PCB-intended pins :-/

I'm intending to desolder the Keyed 15 Contact SIP Connector. I'll be using Solder Cup DA-19's I've had in stock for about 11 years and running wires between the solder cups and the vacated thru-holes.

I just need to find some Ferrite Rings (hopefully in stock) and a source for thin, shielded co-ax for the RCPII/IIsi Cable's RGB Signal/Ground Shield Lines that'll also do double duty for transitioning the processor pads off the Duo 2300c's MoBo and onto a DaughterCard. When I find something suitable, I'll be ordering a spool of it!

Anybody wanna do the leg work for me and then all you folks interested in these cards can buy a few feet from my spool for your own RCPII/IIsi Cable Hacking? :?:

Zuiko, you'll probably want to get your own co-ax over there for the European Contingent and Bunsen will likely want to do the same for OZ. I'm really looking forward to seeing how your cable building goes and if you can find the proper crystal for achieving 60Hz VGA LCD tolerant output from these critters!

Thanks much for your observations/suggestions in the UNDERClocking a Video Card?????? Thread!

We may be starting to get somewhere with this! [

] ]'>

#22 Sat, 25 Feb 2012 - 03:48

Should we have a new, (but linked-in) Cable Hacking Thread to keep the discussion separate from the research side of the project? :?:

Will that make it easier or harder to follow? This thread is getting a bit long to start a new discussion of what amounts to different ways to "install the plumbing."

#23 Fri, 22 Jun 2012 - 04:58

I think I've found a suitable coaxial cable for the RGB lines for hacking cables for this card:

http://www.showmecables.com/product/Miniature-High-Definition-Coax-Snake-Cable-23-AWG-Per-FT.aspx

I haven't found a spec on the dimensions of the wiring or sheath, but I'm looking. I like the color coding.

_______________________________________________________________

The other option would be RG-178 Mini Coaxial Cable at about 1.8mm thickness for the outer sheath.

http://www.wellshow.com/spec/cable/D1780WS5AS.pdf

I'd like to build a couple of cables before too long. Any suggestions/observations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable

#24 Sun, 1 Jul 2012 - 00:40

Been very busy lately... but now I'm back to the hacking scene!

Eventually, I was successful at cutting the female pin header to fit into the Radius Pivot IIsi socket. I soldered it on a small prototyping PCB for ease of build and use, where I'll solder the cables from/to the external DA-15 connector.

On monday I'll go to the local electronics store, I have to purchase some 2200µF caps for my Q700 PSU, and I'll get the thinnest coaxial they have, for this project... I hope in a few days I'll be able to report success with documenting pics!

Wish me luck...

Soon,

#25 Sun, 1 Jul 2012 - 04:09

Welcome back, you were missed. Happy hunting and good luck with the hacking! :approve:

You're more ambitious than I am. I intend to desolder the connector and then hardwire the cabling to my boards. [}

] ]'>

#26 Tue, 17 Jul 2012 - 23:58

Still quite busy... but here's a bit of news about the subject -- not as good as I'd like, though

I made a crude, ugly connector for this card, but so far I connected the several SENSE and SYNC lines plus the associated grounds only. No coaxial cables were soldered thus no picture would be possible; but at least I could check if my versatile Acer monitor syncs up properly with the card's (partial) output. Some evidence of this outrage:

Now, the testing: I used a IIsi with 33 MB and System 7.5.5. An Apple 12" RGB was connected to the internal video output (to be able to see what was going on) while the Acer was hooked to the ColorPivot thru a typical, known good VGA adapter (and my cable).

Upon power-up, during the RAM test (33 MB do take a while on the IIsi!) both outputs were muted, as expected... but as soon as the internal video arose, the Acer detected some signal too! No picture of course, but from its menu there was a 68 kHz / 75 Hz signal, like that of a Portrait display -- confirming my previous probing with the oscilloscope. However, this was always the same any way I went with the VGA adapter's switches, plus it never showed up on Monitors control panel xx( although Gauge series's Slot Info was detecting it properly every time (slot $A). Warm restarts make the sync signals to the Acer disappear for a moment and then back again, as expected.

On the other hand, I recently got (from macmetex too) a Radius Pivot NuBus Interface (632-0070). Sharing the same DRAM (8x M514252A-80, just different package), the same big custom chips (297-0308 & 297-0309), the RAMDAC (Bt478KPJ50), the famous 14.3181 MHz crystal can and regulators (LM385 & LM393) plus most discrete components, I don't think it's crazy to assume both cards would have similar capabilities... even the ROM (DIP vs. PLCC) is labeled quite much the same: © 1992 Radius Inc. COLOR PIVOT V2.6 256K U5-0039-04-A (the PLCC version reads CLR/PVT V 2.6 0048-2A, there's much less space on it)

This NuBus card has the usual DA-15 connector, so I could easily check that it supports several display modes:

512x384, 60 Hz (12" RGB)
640x480, 66 Hz (13", not VGA)
832x624, 75 Hz (16")
640x870, 75 Hz (Portrait)

But whenever I had any other mode set on the adapter's switches, it kept displaying the usual grey screen with the Radius logo at the bottom at the "default" portrait mode: 640x870, 68 kHz, 75 Hz; looking very stretched on the wide Acer monitor -- not the safest thing to do if connected to a fixed-frequency incompatible monitor :disapprove: Of course, when on a compatible mode the Radius logo appeared for a moment, then the Mac cleared the screen and started booting, as expected.

Could it be that somehow the Pivot IIsi is not detecting a compatible monitor and thus disabling itself? Maybe when I get the coaxials soldered it could show the Radius logo, as the 'scope-detected activity on the RGB lines suggests. BTW, the sense lines' continuity on my crude cable checks out OK...

I hope to be able to complete the task in a few days, and come back with more info. I can't conclude anything so far :-x

#27 Wed, 18 Jul 2012 - 00:59

Take a screen shot to see what's going on in the RCPII/IIsi's VRAM.

#28 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 - 22:20

According to my experience, screen shots (Cmd-Shift-3) will only capture whatever screens show up on the Monitors control panel. I have however re-checked this particular case, and it captures only the 512x384 image of the 12" RGB I had at the IIsi built-in video port

regardless of the sense code applied to the Pivot's connector -- either from the VGA adapter's switches, or from real Apple monitors, in particular the Portrait Display.

However, a funny effect was observed... I tried to do the same with no monitor at the built-in port, pressing Cmd-Shift-3 blindly and then Keyboard power-enter (for a proper shutdown). In order to avoid the long RAM test (33 MB), I was going to remove the 12" connector on the fly (yeah, I've done that many times without ill effects) and then power-R to reboot cleanly...

...but as soon as I disconnected (while running!) the 12" from the built-in port, the Pivot's output was muted -- the Acer no longer received sync signals! :?: Then, I issued (blindly) the restart command and... got Chimes of Death right after the normal bong xx( If cold-started this way, the IIsi bongs, does the RAM test and then the Death Chime xx( Plugging back a monitor into the built-in port makes everything go back to the usual way...

This is quite strange because, if the Radius Pivot card is not installed, the IIsi can certainly run completely headless: I've used it as a LocalTalk server that way, and a Cmd-Shift-3 does make a fancy 32x32 image with the "Menu bar" occupied by the small Finder icon (of the Application menu) and garbage in the lower half, with the arrow somewhere in the middle

)

EDIT: just tried again, but putting a cruder jumper between one of the card's video outputs (pin 2, 5 or 9) to one of the monitor's DA15 video input lines -- for instance, pin 5 to pin 5 (green signal). The Acer display shows, clearly, a streched (it's portrait mode on a wide display!) screen with the usual Radius logo at the bottom, all green of course. Separate SYNC (13" won't do)

Unlike its NuBus sibling, this particular card rejects any sense code I could apply, considering it an unsupported monitor. Same when using the APD (only pin 9 gets the input, this time with the right aspect ratio)

Booting from 7.1 (instead of 7.5.5) changes nothing.

:?:

#29 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 - 23:49

It sounds like your Mac Video Adapter might not be up to the task to me. IIfx had problems getting anything but 640x480 out of the Apple Display Card 24AC I sent him until he got a good adapter, now it's running fine.

I did all my RCPII/IIsi tests with the Enhance "Liberty" Adapter, the best of the best in my estimation. Which one are you using? :?:

As for what shows up in the Monitors Control Panel:

fullhouse4.jpg.c44629cb697c3d81fbce79f2f53c9fe7.jpg

Full House 4: PixelTown Config.

The next post shows what happens when they don't play nicely together in Full House 5

I couldn't actually follow the details of what you were reporting, I'm really tired ATM. What monitors are you using?

#30 Mon, 3 Sep 2012 - 07:52

I forgot to mention the Video Adapter Docs Scan Dump.

Let me know which one you're having trouble with and, if it's in the pic or on my list, maybe I can help you out with some documentation. :beige:

In your PM, you said you were trying to use your RCPII/IIsi with an LCD. Check the previous page for the output range of the card and check to make sure your LCD is a MultiSync.