Thread

Mini PCI vs. Mini PCIe . . .

Mini PCI vs. Mini PCIe . . . Troubleshooting 23 posts Mar 15, 2012 — Mar 29, 2012

#1 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 03:11

. . . I think I made a boo-boo!

I got this: Mini PCI <-> PCI Adapter

To install this: HALF PCI-e 802.11n WiFi Bluetooth 2.1 Card

Into the PCI Slot of my Dual Core 1.8GHz Atom NetTop Board

Because I installed this: 8 GB SSD in the single Mini PCIe Slot.

Problem:

I can't get ubuntu to install without this board being connected to the 'Net. I'd like to get it up and running online, tethered to my 'Droid, for when I send the 3g Pavilion dm1 in for a few days for servicing the original problem which was ignored the first time around. FEH! I can always use HP_Mini and its Single Core 1GHz ATOM, but I've gotten spoiled . . .

Possible solutions:

Luckily, my grlf has a Cable Modem, so I can use a crossover cable . . . maybe . . . or I can tether it to my 'Droid with the USB Cable connection.

The other option would be waiting for this little toy to arrive: mini USB 2.0 bluetooth adapter dongle so I can tether over bluetooth like I do w/HP_Mini.

Aim of the project:

Eventually this setup might find its way into my ComPaq Portable II Hack, but in the meantime, I think I might rather complete my Duo System Style MacMini Hack as an ubuntu/OSX Mini Desktop underneath my (just a smidge darker than Duo-Gray) 15" Radius LCD. Details are falling right into place for this ZFP form factor NetTopMac™ hack . . .

. . . I just need to get an OS onto the SSD. :-/

Questions:

Can a Mini PCIe card be adapted to the Mini PCI Slot?

Should I go with the tiny bluetooth dongle, as that's probably how I'd tether to the 'Droid.

Dunno . . . confuzzled . . . xx(

#2 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 04:47

Put this on the motherboard:

http://ca.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Slot-Extension/PCI-to-PCI-Express-Adapter-Card~PCI1PEX1

Then stick your mPCI-E card in here:

http://ca.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Slot-Extension/PCI-Express-to-Mini-PCI-Express-Card-Adapter~PEX2MPEX

Now, your card is half size so you want either this:

http://ca.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Slot-Extension/Half-Size-to-Full-Size-Mini-PCI-Express-Adapter~HMPEXADP

Or you want to be silly and follow my reckless path like this:

http://www.poopr.org/images/90zeqhxk7dpkeck3l9w.jpg

Yes, a paperclip. :/ But it does work and is sturdier than it looks.

Or, you could, you know, use a PCI ethernet card. Or a PCI wireless card. Or a USB ethernet or wireless card.

#3 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 05:11

Nope, I ALREADY had a full length MiniPCIe WiFi NIC, but then the SSD arrived on my doorstep and it just had to go into that slot!

Methinks I need to go with the USB-Bluetooth dongle when it arrives, that way I can get the ATOM board tethered to my 'Droid during a "live session" and then install ubuntu on the SSD while the connection is up. I'd rather use the PCI slot for a Dual Head VidCard anyway!

Just another pair of inexpensive credits in the school of hard knocks! :-/

#4 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 05:32

Attach a PCI breakout box to that lone PCI slot!!

#5 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 - 12:32

:lol:

Hrmmmm . . . now an Internal Mini PCIe expansion . . . 8-o

. . . whatever! The whole thing is going into the case of my DOA Apple CD SC . . .

7b01214a8318b6820fd50e56cff3376b.jpeg.1b751fe76eedf29e3ff191566228ed99.jpeg

. . . with a tray loading DVD! :approve:

Triple "boot" system: ubuntu/Classic Mac OS Emulator & OS X.

______________________________________________________________________

I'll have to document the innards of the CD SC before I start with the sheet metal and plastic mods. This thing is VERY, VERY

The Cartridge Loader CD's top section is a half height Sony Model #CDU-8001. It outputs the drive mechanism's raw TTL signals to a lower PCB section which is labeled SCSI/Audio . . .

. . . looks like a starter kit for techknight's SCSI Voodoo problems and the prototype for a modern CDRW (DVDRW as CDRW?) Dual interface 68k CD Optical Hack!

#6 Fri, 16 Mar 2012 - 02:11

Well if you can fit the DVD Deck assembly in place of the old CD mechanism you could use the old carriage system. I wish I had one of these old CD/SC setups becuase i would end up hacking a modern DVD-RW or Blu-Ray drive to use the old CD/SC deck and carriage assembly.

#7 Fri, 16 Mar 2012 - 03:20

Nope, I need the room for the MoBo, PSU etc. The DVDRW will be on the order of the portable USB2 type.

If you want the old mechanism and the magical SCSI/Audio Card, the former and the original PSU you can have for postage, but the SCSI-Audio Card would be a loaner . . .

. . . unless you can clone its function for the rest of us! [

] ]'>

I've been drooling over the prospect of turning this, or the HD 20SC that came with it , into a MacMiniHack since the day I picked them up 18 mos. ago . . .

. . . and the 20SC works . . . so the CDSC it is! Looks more like a MiniMacIIfx, what with the power & access LEDs . . . the lack of the designation printed on the fron is a HUGE PLUS!!!

#8 Fri, 16 Mar 2012 - 21:56

It would be cool to have a caddy loader DVD burner, but I have to wonder if the hubs in the caddies can physically support anything faster than 2x, 4x, etc. I'd hate for something to melt or fly apart, etc.

#9 Sat, 17 Mar 2012 - 01:35

That was what I was wondering, but I haven't had time to post about it. I'll be documenting and hacking the CD SC tonight and tomorrow . . .

. . . car dropped dead on the way home from work and I had it towed to the mechanic across the street. Suddenly I have a bit of time for my toys . . .

. . . I hope I don't need to sell any for to pay for this repair! :disapprove:

#10 Sat, 17 Mar 2012 - 07:24

It would be fairly cool to stuff a burner into a 5.25" caddy loader drive somehow, install said caddy burner into a 6100, 7100, 8100 or 8500, and install the appropriate bezel from its 68k counterpart. And in exchange, install the old Power Mac bezel and drive into the 68k!

#11 Sat, 17 Mar 2012 - 12:01

I'd be ecstatic if it's possilble to AB switch the Ribbon Cables from the AUDIO-SCSI to the DVD Player in the MacintoshClassicIIIColorTVp™ Hack, just to use the tray loader DVD to read CDs for the computer as well as feeding the S-Video to the TV/Video System. The board is useless there's room for a 1/5 height CD in a Mac.

#12 Sat, 17 Mar 2012 - 17:54

Back to your original problem: I would humbly suggest that your best bet is to go with a suitably OS-compatible USB2 Wifi adapter and resell your unused, as-new spare parts

#13 Sat, 17 Mar 2012 - 19:11

They cost me peanuts and I NEVER get rid of anyt . . . erm . . . something that might actuall become useful in the long run . . .

. . . and doesn't take up more cubic than a ComPaq Portable II. :I

Back to an additional conundrum! :b&w:

WTH is a $2.00 from Goodwill, X.3 Compatible Active ExpressCard/34 CardBus Type II Adapter, and please let me know why I might have I bought one.

BeaterIII, my 500MHz Pismo gots X.4.11, but that's likely only half way there . . . or is it? :?:

< . . . bashes a little common sen . . . erm . . . grlf maintainance thinking into skull . . . decides a garage sale in the trading post might be helpful to others . . . >

#14 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 03:17

ok i must be stupid so I am going to ask a stupid question. What is a SCSI-Audio thing? anyone have a pic or know what it does?

@Dennis: The spindle mechanism I have no idea if it could handle a high speed setup. Not sure if its a multi-coil brushless motor or if its a regular DC brushed motor. that would also determine its feasibility to make happen. Just one of those little projects i thought about doing but never ran into the initiative yet to do it.

couple thing would have to take place. The spindle motor would have to be examined and used or swapped with a modified clamper assy in the caddy. another thing would be the laser sled. if you cant use the traverse deck assembly in place of the old one, we would have to fabricate a new mount to hold and guide the new burning laser onto the old sled assembly.

then... we need to check the eject motor and look at the limit switches to make sure the eject mechanism will function correctly. if not, put a microcontroller in between as a function translator.

#15 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 03:30

Found a pic of the CDU-8001:

cdu8001.gif.fb423b5217947a6a27a79ffdfba97908.gif

Umm that traverse deck mechanism might be a toughy to modify, if not impossible. no modern drive uses voice coil actuated sled assemblies.

So, a modern traverse deck assembly would have to be modified to fit into its place.

#16 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 03:32

ok i must be stupid so I am going to ask a stupid question. What is a SCSI-Audio thing? anyone have a pic or know what it does?

Nope, definitely not stupid, I'm just not too good at using words in descriptive format. I haven't had a chance to take or post pics and scanning won't work, other than for the solder-side.

The Cartridge Loader CD's top section is a half height Sony Model #CDU-8001. It outputs the drive mechanism's raw TTL signals to a lower PCB section which is labeled SCSI/Audio . . .. . . looks like a starter kit for techknight's SCSI Voodoo problems and the prototype for a modern CDRW (DVDRW as CDRW?) Dual interface 68k CD Optical Hack!

Loosely translated, The SCSI-AUDIO Card adapts the half height cartridge mechanism's raw signal and control lines to something a Mac can use: SCSI!

It's a VERY interesting board and I'll have a chance to document it, and the rest of the CD SC, before I turn it into an ATOMicNetTop. }

edit: it's the "controller board" for the drive you have in the picture!

#17 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 21:30

WTH is a $2.00 from Goodwill, X.3 Compatible Active ExpressCard/34 CardBus Type II Adapter, and please let me know why I might have I bought one.

That lets you plug old-style "CardBus" cards (aka "PC Cards", aka "PCMCIA cards",) into a modern-style ExpressCard slot (such as is found on the 17" MacBook Pro, or the first couple generations of 15" MacBook Pro.)

Note: CardBus is based on PCI, ExpressCard is based on PCI Express (aka PCIe.) While PCI and PCIe are "instruction" compatible, they are electrically 100% different. Hence your original conundrum: You had a PCI slot, and a PCIe card. As you have discovered, one type of slot CAN be converted into the other (your $2 Goodwill card does it in the "mobile externally removable" space, while the card MacJunky linked to does it for desktop-size internal cards,) but it can be a pain, and it doesn't look good, in general.

#18 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 21:44

Thanks, for the money, I get great credit hour bang/buck in the school of hard knocks when I buy this junk and ask about it! :approve:

I'm just waiting on the $2.00 USB <-> Bluetooth Nubbin to arrive from Slave China or Free China, I forget which. :

For the short term, I just want to be able to tether to my 'Droid via that, or the USB Cable from the 'Droid's AC Adapter while the 3G Pavilion goes back in to have the original, unaddressed, issue fixed.

#19 Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 09:33

old-style "CardBus" cards (aka "PC Cards", aka "PCMCIA cards")

Those are two different formats. PCMCIA aka PC Card is the original 16 bit format, CardBus is the backwards-compatible 32 bit slot. ie, PC Cards will work in a CardBus slot, but not vice versa.

#20 Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 12:16

Yeah, I figured most everything out, equating CardBus with PCIe in terms of the the MacBook slot was all I needed.

I'm used to PCMCIA and CardBus being used interchangeably with PC Card by now, that was going on ten-fifteen years ago, IIRC. The vast majority of Laptop users today have never seen, nor heard of, a Laptop Beast that has a 16 bit "PC Card" slot that won't let itself be damaged by the insertion of a card with the gold stripe.

Now, I'm on the prowl for a Mini PCIe internal card <-> PCIe external card adapter . . .

Question: once my PCie <-> PCI Slot adapter gets here, will I find that PCIe is backwards compatible with PCI to a limited extent. I'm ASSumIng that a full size PCIe Slot would be a super-set of PCI Slot function, signals and speed?

I still don't know (idle curiosity) if the Pismo's CardBus slot it is X.3 Compatible.

p.s. I have the info on wood pulp based storage media and Google at hand for this kind of info, but I figure it's good to get this stuff into the record.

Then I can then link to it in the (theoretical) 68kMLA Thread Link Addendum to the Peripherals Links Project . . .

. . . on top of being lazy and only casually curious at this point. [

] ]'>

#21 Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 15:36

Question: once my PCie <-> PCI Slot adapter gets here, will I find that PCIe is backwards compatible with PCI to a limited extent. I'm ASSumIng that a full size PCIe Slot would be a super-set of PCI Slot function, signals and speed?

I'm not sure what you're angling at here, but... no. From a programming standpoint PCIe can be treated like an evolution of PCI but the physical implementation is completely different. PCI is a conventional parallel bus with multiplexed address/data lines while PCIe is a point-to-point serial topology with transfers encapsulated into packets. Electrically they're not alike *at all*. Converting from one to the other requires a bridge chip, it's not just shuffling wires around.

Note that said bridge chips *most of the time* don't cause software problems but your mileage may vary depending on the card, particularly if it makes extensive use of DMA/bus-mastering.

#22 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 13:09

equating CardBus with PCIe in terms of the the MacBook slot was all I needed.

Cardbus is not PCIe related. It's based on PCI.

#23 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 13:28

Thanks for the correction, B.

Sorry, wrong word, .TXT output error once more.

His statement was a simile not a direct connection between the two, but it illustrated the missing bit of my puzzle. :b&w: