Thread
Getting files onto old compact Macs
I have an SE/30 running System 6, a Plus running System 6, a Classic II running System 7, and some other ethernet enabled Macs running System 8 to Lion.
When I download old OS's and old system 6 and 7 software I have no way of getting them from my newer Macs to my older Macs. The old ones don't have ethernet and the new ones don't have floppies.
Is there an easy way to bridge the PhoneNet network to the ethernet network? Or should I get a USB floppy? Or maybe a SCSI zip drive and a USB zip drive?
What do you guys do?
TIA
When I download old OS's and old system 6 and 7 software I have no way of getting them from my newer Macs to my older Macs. The old ones don't have ethernet and the new ones don't have floppies.
Is there an easy way to bridge the PhoneNet network to the ethernet network? Or should I get a USB floppy? Or maybe a SCSI zip drive and a USB zip drive?
What do you guys do?
TIA
I have a USB floppy drive, and some computers able to fill the gap in between (a Powermac G3 Beige with a floppy drive and Ethernet as standard, even the Powerbook 5300 can do the trick wirelessly)
the cheaper for you will be the USB floppy drive i think.
the cheaper for you will be the USB floppy drive i think.
Be aware that USB floppy drives won't be VBR and won't write 800k disks for the Plus.
I recommend using ZIP (SCSI on the old machines, USB on the new) or getting a G3 with a VBR floppy drive.
Of course, you could use the USB floppy to talk to your 1.4 floppy machines which could then talk to the Plus.
I recommend using ZIP (SCSI on the old machines, USB on the new) or getting a G3 with a VBR floppy drive.
Of course, you could use the USB floppy to talk to your 1.4 floppy machines which could then talk to the Plus.
It all depends on what long term solution you want to implement and how much you want to spend.
All the options you suggest would work but the most elegant solution I think is to put in a Apple LocalTalk to Ethernet converter/bridge onto one of the older Macs and hook the rest up via LocalTalk cabling. So now you have a bridge between your LocalTalk network and ethernet network. The downside is – those type converters are neither cheap nor easy to find.
The SCSI zips, removable media/external SCSI HD/floppy drive is really just a fudge to get round the problem - it's not ideal and will be inconvenient to use, but if you only need to do it now and again it would work.
I use a USB flash card to move files from my OSX machine to my older PowerMac 9600 which has a 2 port USB card in it, from there I can either put them onto floppy or hook the 9600 into an ethernet network and move files that way.
Anther alternative (that may well prove cheaper and easier to find than the ethernet to LocalTalk converter) is to simply buy an older Macintosh which has both LocalTalk and either an ethernet NIC or onboard ethernet which could effectively act as your LocalTalk to ethernet bridge. You simply hook the machine into the ethernet network and the LocalTalk networks - you may have to switch AppleTalk via LocalTalk to Ethernet and vice versa but it's still a far easier prospect than having to keep plugging and unplugging external drives.
I think there's also a software implementation of AppleTalk over LocalTalk to Ethernet conversion which could run on that machine, but I don't know much about that to be honest.
You've got a number of options, which you choose will depend ultimately on what you want to do.
All the options you suggest would work but the most elegant solution I think is to put in a Apple LocalTalk to Ethernet converter/bridge onto one of the older Macs and hook the rest up via LocalTalk cabling. So now you have a bridge between your LocalTalk network and ethernet network. The downside is – those type converters are neither cheap nor easy to find.
The SCSI zips, removable media/external SCSI HD/floppy drive is really just a fudge to get round the problem - it's not ideal and will be inconvenient to use, but if you only need to do it now and again it would work.
I use a USB flash card to move files from my OSX machine to my older PowerMac 9600 which has a 2 port USB card in it, from there I can either put them onto floppy or hook the 9600 into an ethernet network and move files that way.
Anther alternative (that may well prove cheaper and easier to find than the ethernet to LocalTalk converter) is to simply buy an older Macintosh which has both LocalTalk and either an ethernet NIC or onboard ethernet which could effectively act as your LocalTalk to ethernet bridge. You simply hook the machine into the ethernet network and the LocalTalk networks - you may have to switch AppleTalk via LocalTalk to Ethernet and vice versa but it's still a far easier prospect than having to keep plugging and unplugging external drives.
I think there's also a software implementation of AppleTalk over LocalTalk to Ethernet conversion which could run on that machine, but I don't know much about that to be honest.
You've got a number of options, which you choose will depend ultimately on what you want to do.
I use Zip Drives on almost every Mac I have set up at any given time. I've got a USB Zip 250 on the NetBook and a FireWire Zip 250 on my QS'02 9.2.2 MainMac for decompression a/o burning to CD if I need anything larger than 100MB on the SCSI Macs.
A USB Floppy Drive sounds like a good investment though! Which one do you recommend? On what Computer and OS do you run yours on and what formats does it support?
Linky?
)
edit: WOW! Two replies with great info posted as I typed mine! 68kMLA BDBomba!!! :approve:
A USB Floppy Drive sounds like a good investment though! Which one do you recommend? On what Computer and OS do you run yours on and what formats does it support?
Linky?
) edit: WOW! Two replies with great info posted as I typed mine! 68kMLA BDBomba!!! :approve:
There is a handy guide in my sig for your reference.
(I'll be updating it soon with LocalTalk info.)
What "other ethernet enabled Macs" are they? You have two choice: A LocalTalk network or an all-ethernet Network.
The SE/30 can get an ethernet card, a LocalTalk to PhoneNet adaptor, or a SCSI to Ethernet adaptor, as can the Classic II. The Plus can get a SCSI to Ethernet or LocalTalk to Ethernet.
I would just get four DIN-8 to LocalTalk adaptors, two 120ohm terminating resistors, some telephone wire, and hook up all the machines that can can do LocalTalk to each other. One machine will have to be the gateway between LocalTalk and Ethernet: I don't know if OS X can do LocalTalk, but you can't have LocalTalk and Ethernet on the same computer active. But you can just switch between them quickly on the gateway machine -- just leave the TCP/IP (or Network if you use MacTCP), AppleTalk and Chooser windows open (WindowShade may help) and flick between the two network types.
The benefit is that your machines with System 6 won't need to do MacTCP and Ethernet work, but it's not that hard because others have done the legwork for you. But the major benefit is PhoneNet connectors are DIRT cheap. Type "phonenet" into eBay and marvel.
Here's the problem with USB floppy drives: They only support PC 720KB and 1.44MB sizes. You can only use 720KB disks if you have a SuperDrive and PC Exchange (7.1 MAY be able to do it, but better is 7.5). Also, floppies are notoriously unreliable, fickle and tiresome. Don't bother with Zip disks either -- trust me, you can use LocalTalk (even ethernet, as I have done) on a single 800K boot floppy (but two for better work, see my Guide).
Once you use networking reliably, you won't bother with floppies. Trust me.
(I'll be updating it soon with LocalTalk info.)
What "other ethernet enabled Macs" are they? You have two choice: A LocalTalk network or an all-ethernet Network.
The SE/30 can get an ethernet card, a LocalTalk to PhoneNet adaptor, or a SCSI to Ethernet adaptor, as can the Classic II. The Plus can get a SCSI to Ethernet or LocalTalk to Ethernet.
I would just get four DIN-8 to LocalTalk adaptors, two 120ohm terminating resistors, some telephone wire, and hook up all the machines that can can do LocalTalk to each other. One machine will have to be the gateway between LocalTalk and Ethernet: I don't know if OS X can do LocalTalk, but you can't have LocalTalk and Ethernet on the same computer active. But you can just switch between them quickly on the gateway machine -- just leave the TCP/IP (or Network if you use MacTCP), AppleTalk and Chooser windows open (WindowShade may help) and flick between the two network types.
The benefit is that your machines with System 6 won't need to do MacTCP and Ethernet work, but it's not that hard because others have done the legwork for you. But the major benefit is PhoneNet connectors are DIRT cheap. Type "phonenet" into eBay and marvel.
Here's the problem with USB floppy drives: They only support PC 720KB and 1.44MB sizes. You can only use 720KB disks if you have a SuperDrive and PC Exchange (7.1 MAY be able to do it, but better is 7.5). Also, floppies are notoriously unreliable, fickle and tiresome. Don't bother with Zip disks either -- trust me, you can use LocalTalk (even ethernet, as I have done) on a single 800K boot floppy (but two for better work, see my Guide).
Once you use networking reliably, you won't bother with floppies. Trust me.
I checked out old powerbooks with a floppy AND ethernet but I think it's just the 500 series that has both. I'll check out MacTracker and try to find a laptop with both LocalTalk AND Ethernet ports.
I'll also look on ebay for a LocalTalk to Ethernet bridge as that may be cheaper than a old laptop.
I'm putting together a "Mac Museum" sorta thing and I'm trying to restore all these machines to their original configurations. I also have an "iLamp" imac, a Newton eMate, a couple clamshell ibooks, a G3 bronze key and a 12" white G3 laptop. Of course my current Mac is a 15" quad core i7 MBP.
If any of you know of a good deal on a LocalTalk/Ethernet bridge or a 500 series PB please let me know.
I'll also look on ebay for a LocalTalk to Ethernet bridge as that may be cheaper than a old laptop.
I'm putting together a "Mac Museum" sorta thing and I'm trying to restore all these machines to their original configurations. I also have an "iLamp" imac, a Newton eMate, a couple clamshell ibooks, a G3 bronze key and a 12" white G3 laptop. Of course my current Mac is a 15" quad core i7 MBP.
If any of you know of a good deal on a LocalTalk/Ethernet bridge or a 500 series PB please let me know.
I think the Powerbook 520 had onboard ethernet and a serial printer port.
Another way might be to find a Powerbook with a serial port and a PC Card slot where you can add an ethernet card.
Another way might be to find a Powerbook with a serial port and a PC Card slot where you can add an ethernet card.
I think I would need a Farallon EtherWave transceiver for an AAUI based Mac. According to MacTracker, the 3400c, and the PBG3 series had serial and 10 Base-T.
You could use Ethernet for all of them, but your System 6 and 7 (7.5.5 can go to 10.4.11, 7.6.1 can hook up to 10.5. 8) machines will NOT connect to anything higher than 10.3.9 unless you use FTP. You're better off using AFP, because you can share disks and volumes (but you can't "share" a "share" unless you use something like Rumpus).
The Ethernet machines will all need a router, depending on how many machines you have, you might need a router or gateway with more than four ports. If you use LocalTalk for the old machines, then a simple daisy-chain all the way up to the bridge machine would be the easiest and cheapest (and the most practical).
The Ethernet machines will all need a router, depending on how many machines you have, you might need a router or gateway with more than four ports. If you use LocalTalk for the old machines, then a simple daisy-chain all the way up to the bridge machine would be the easiest and cheapest (and the most practical).
Well if you've already got a G3 Lombard, bronze keyboard - there's your answer!
Looks like you may not have to buy anything - always good!
Cheers!
Looks like you may not have to buy anything - always good!
Cheers!
No floppy drive is present if i can remember, or i am wrong ?
Hi all,
This is my first ever post here, so "hi".
Here's what I do:
I have a Mac Plus, and getting stuff onto it was a major puzzle. My solution was to use a Quadra 650, which is connected to the Internet. I download stuff on the Q650, and copy it onto a zip disk. The Mac Plus can either boot directly from the zip disk, or else I can copy stuff from the zip disk to the Mac Plus's hard disk.
D.
This is my first ever post here, so "hi".
Here's what I do:
I have a Mac Plus, and getting stuff onto it was a major puzzle. My solution was to use a Quadra 650, which is connected to the Internet. I download stuff on the Q650, and copy it onto a zip disk. The Mac Plus can either boot directly from the zip disk, or else I can copy stuff from the zip disk to the Mac Plus's hard disk.
D.
Hi danielb! Welcome aboard!
Always nice to run into a fellow Mac Plus user.
Drop on over to the lounge and say hello. Post some pics of your stuff. Have fun!
In regards to the network option, I've never set one up, even though with my Wallstreet I suppose I could. I would need to look more into how to get the Wallstreet to talk to Lion over Ethernet, though. I remember having trouble with that back when it was Tiger or Leopard. I think that's why I XPostFactoed Jaguar on in the first place. I hate OSX on the Wallstreet, though. It seems so unnecessary and beside the point.
I like floppies, personally. One, I do so much work archiving vintage software, and two, it feels so . . . exactly like how I used to work. I never had a permanent network at home until my wife and I got our first wireless router with broadband.
Always nice to run into a fellow Mac Plus user.
Drop on over to the lounge and say hello. Post some pics of your stuff. Have fun!
In regards to the network option, I've never set one up, even though with my Wallstreet I suppose I could. I would need to look more into how to get the Wallstreet to talk to Lion over Ethernet, though. I remember having trouble with that back when it was Tiger or Leopard. I think that's why I XPostFactoed Jaguar on in the first place. I hate OSX on the Wallstreet, though. It seems so unnecessary and beside the point.
I like floppies, personally. One, I do so much work archiving vintage software, and two, it feels so . . . exactly like how I used to work. I never had a permanent network at home until my wife and I got our first wireless router with broadband.
I wasn't really thinking about the floppy drive to be honest, but that machine does have a serial port and ethernet, so could act as his LocalTalk to Ethernet bridge machine, if that's the route he wants to take.
Cheers!
The most robust way to bridge LocalTalk and EtherTalk networks is via the old software router from Apple: "Apple Internet Router."
To use it, you are best to run an early System 7 on a 68030 or 68040 Mac, and you need a machine with both LocalTalk and ethernet network connectors (like a 540c).
It is very stable, running for months without attention -- and though much the same thing can be achieved with hardware bridges, I have found two of the latter to be flaky by comparison, requiring restarts, etc.
The free LocalTalk Bridge, which has been mentioned, is essentially a cut-down version of Apple Internet Router, the latter being the high-end implementation of the routing software. It is one of the handful of products that can give you AppleTalk Zones, btw.
To use it, you are best to run an early System 7 on a 68030 or 68040 Mac, and you need a machine with both LocalTalk and ethernet network connectors (like a 540c).
It is very stable, running for months without attention -- and though much the same thing can be achieved with hardware bridges, I have found two of the latter to be flaky by comparison, requiring restarts, etc.
The free LocalTalk Bridge, which has been mentioned, is essentially a cut-down version of Apple Internet Router, the latter being the high-end implementation of the routing software. It is one of the handful of products that can give you AppleTalk Zones, btw.
I use a SCSI Zip 100 on my Macintosh Plus and an USB Zip 100 on the my 2009 iMac to transfer stuff. I picked up the ZIP drives very cheap on eBay and this set up works like a dream. The iMac is dual boot... I need to boot the iMac in 10.5 (Leopard) to do this as later versions won't let you write! Booting up on the Macintosh Plus is faster and quieter with the ZIP.
My solution is:
- download a CD's worth on my Mac Mini
- burn it all to CD
- Put the CD in my 140c0 (3400c, kanga, wallstreet will work too)
- copy files to HD
- copy files to floppy (400k, 800k, or 1.4MB)
Note: I use 8.6 for this and MFS 400k disks can be created using a disk image only. I am not sure about HFS 400k disks.
- download a CD's worth on my Mac Mini
- burn it all to CD
- Put the CD in my 140c0 (3400c, kanga, wallstreet will work too)
- copy files to HD
- copy files to floppy (400k, 800k, or 1.4MB)
Note: I use 8.6 for this and MFS 400k disks can be created using a disk image only. I am not sure about HFS 400k disks.
The only problem with Ethernet is that you have to physically run wires between the Macs. I suppose this is easy enough with a compact, just carry it into the room you want to transfer files and plug it into the network. I used to run mine through a commercial grade phone system installed in my last house, but that's pretty rare.
Personally, I prefer the Zip drive both for the volume and size of files it can handle, as well as its compatibility back to the stock Mac Plus. (128Ke if fitted with a SCSI port), as well as an OS X Mac (with HFS writing software of course since Leopard dropped support for HFS).
With my 128K I just transfer files directly into and out of OS X using Terminal, but that's a pretty slow method for System 6 & 7 file sizes. For more on this, check out http://mac128.com
But the most versatile method I've found is the Zip drive. it's portable, compatible, Minimal setup and configuration, reliable, and fast.
Personally, I prefer the Zip drive both for the volume and size of files it can handle, as well as its compatibility back to the stock Mac Plus. (128Ke if fitted with a SCSI port), as well as an OS X Mac (with HFS writing software of course since Leopard dropped support for HFS).
With my 128K I just transfer files directly into and out of OS X using Terminal, but that's a pretty slow method for System 6 & 7 file sizes. For more on this, check out http://mac128.com
But the most versatile method I've found is the Zip drive. it's portable, compatible, Minimal setup and configuration, reliable, and fast.
I just picked up an Apple modem 300, and I have a copy of terminal Tell me more about how you make your compact talk to a modern Mac over the phone. What do I do on the modern Mac end?
I'm bidding on a usb self powered zip drive and a scsi zip drive on ebay. This seems to be the best route for me as these Macs will not be hooked up most of the time, they'll be in glass display cases.
I can also back each one up in it's entirety on one zip disk each.
I can also back each one up in it's entirety on one zip disk each.
Zip drive is fine really, you can even boot from a zip if required.
Only drawback, the setup is pretty bulky compared with the USB floppy drive (and you need two drives instead of one)
On the other side, zip disks are far better to move big files.
I have a zip also, but like floppies :lol:
Only drawback, the setup is pretty bulky compared with the USB floppy drive (and you need two drives instead of one)
On the other side, zip disks are far better to move big files.
I have a zip also, but like floppies :lol:
It doesn't actually use a modem of any kind, it uses a direct serial/usb cable null-modem.
Here's some discussions we've had on it ...
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4318
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11106
I just added an old floppy drive to my desktop PC. Looks a bit strange, shiny black case with a faded beige floppy, but it has a wee door on the front so you don't notice most of the time
I use HFVExplorer and VMac to get files onto floppies.
Anything I want onto the Mac Plus, I have a few 800k disks, I use the classic as a go-between swapping the 1.44MB floppy and the 800k Plus floppy.
Long term, I am looking at a SCSI ZIP drive. This could be the HDD for the plus, an external drive for the classic, and I have a Parallel (really a SCSI without the SCSI chip...) ZIP drive that I can connect up to the PC to download anything I fancy.
You could ethernet them, but I tend to think of compact macs more as standalone machines, good for games, recipes DB and word processing (the keyboards on both are a joy to type on!)
I use HFVExplorer and VMac to get files onto floppies.
Anything I want onto the Mac Plus, I have a few 800k disks, I use the classic as a go-between swapping the 1.44MB floppy and the 800k Plus floppy.
Long term, I am looking at a SCSI ZIP drive. This could be the HDD for the plus, an external drive for the classic, and I have a Parallel (really a SCSI without the SCSI chip...) ZIP drive that I can connect up to the PC to download anything I fancy.
You could ethernet them, but I tend to think of compact macs more as standalone machines, good for games, recipes DB and word processing (the keyboards on both are a joy to type on!)
I see many of you are using Windows. I was wondering about what to do if you have a new Mac. I'm assuming a CD or Zip drive would have to be HFS compatible in order for the old Mac to see it. I'm using OS X Lion right now and it's chucked out HFS support. I tried to use OSXFuse with HFS support but if I copy too much stuff to a (USB) Floppy I get a kernal panic. I'm not considering an Asante Mini scsi to ethernet device to get FTP access on the internet working. Either that or I'll need to try the PC options in a virtual machine. Any other ideas?
I'm in disbelief that I can write floppies for my 286 on my new Mac with ease (FAT) but can't do the same for one of Apple's own products.
I'm in disbelief that I can write floppies for my 286 on my new Mac with ease (FAT) but can't do the same for one of Apple's own products.
If you burn CDs with the standard ISO format, it can read them with the appropriate CD-ROM extensions. Usually this implies 7.5.3+.
Personally I think Ethernet is worth the initial cost. Floppy drives are a last resort.
If you have 10.6, you'll need a bridge Mac. I have not been able to test 10.7 support, if it does work with anything it will likely be 9.2 with AFP over TCP/IP only. A bridge Mac is a very useful piece of kit to have, depending on which one you choose. I'd be leaning towards one of these.
The reason you can still write floppies for DOS machines is because of FAT12 support, but that's not to say it will last another 10 years.
Personally I think Ethernet is worth the initial cost. Floppy drives are a last resort.
If you have 10.6, you'll need a bridge Mac. I have not been able to test 10.7 support, if it does work with anything it will likely be 9.2 with AFP over TCP/IP only. A bridge Mac is a very useful piece of kit to have, depending on which one you choose. I'd be leaning towards one of these.
The reason you can still write floppies for DOS machines is because of FAT12 support, but that's not to say it will last another 10 years.
Actually, if I go ethernet I would probably just connect it straight to the AEBS router for internet and download stuff either straight from sites or off my own FTP. I'm assuming that would work fine but I could be wrong. The Asante Mini I was looking at just got bought, so that's out for now. Will a Localtalk to Ethernet bridge serve the same purpose? They seen to be only for sharing printers but I could be wrong.
Right now I'm writing disks in VMware/Windows XP through MacDrive and it's working ok. Still, it's a pain.
Right now I'm writing disks in VMware/Windows XP through MacDrive and it's working ok. Still, it's a pain.
They can do file sharing but they apparently handle only AFP over AppleTalk. AFP over TCP/IP like OS X 10.4+ is out of capability.
So internet is out as well, I assume.
A macine running Tiger with a USB floppy drive can come in handy, or a beige PCI Mac with a floppy and a USB card for a thumbdrive.
Variations on the sneakernet theme are probably easiest.
It is bizzare that we have this problem, isn't it? What's even more bizzare, though, is that some of our own members here think it right and good.
Variations on the sneakernet theme are probably easiest.
It is bizzare that we have this problem, isn't it? What's even more bizzare, though, is that some of our own members here think it right and good.
I don't. If i was king of the US and all the computer fazzle going on back in the day, I would have put out a mandate that all computers from the // onward have some sort of minimal bootable OS in ROM, that can handle basic tasks with shell control. And all computers from that point on must have a standard serial networking interface, so that a //c could hook up to the very latest machine with no real issues.
It's not hard at all, the ROM thing would be a problem though. We already had FTP, we already know how to push data over four pins (clock, data+, data-, ground), simple serial interfaces and handshaking et al back in the 70's. Since the engineers who knew the ins and outs of the hardware et cetera, how hard could it be? Since memory was expensive, they could compress the system into ROM and use assembly language.
As for modern computers, they could have a simple OS like System 6 in ROM that can do simple stuff like blessing system folders and what not. Terminal would be a real bonus as well. You might say "But there's no room for a DIN-4 on a MacBook Pro 2x!!!!" I think a simple Ethernet to DIN-4 adaptor would suffice (or ThunderBolt to DIN-4). "But what if the FTP or the system ROM gets expanded with new features?" No problem, use programmable ROM chips that are cheap and easy to burn, and they plug into a DIP socket or something like that.
Something like that.
As for OS X with floppy drives, watch out for extraneous fat that the system plops onto the disk. 1.3MB could be suddenly reduced to 1MB free space without warning.
If you want to access the internet, there have been a handful of users here and elsewhere that have made pseudo PPP networks. Basically, dial-up-like but without the modem. I'll be looking into a writeup on how to do that once a certain member gets back from spring break.
It's not hard at all, the ROM thing would be a problem though. We already had FTP, we already know how to push data over four pins (clock, data+, data-, ground), simple serial interfaces and handshaking et al back in the 70's. Since the engineers who knew the ins and outs of the hardware et cetera, how hard could it be? Since memory was expensive, they could compress the system into ROM and use assembly language.
As for modern computers, they could have a simple OS like System 6 in ROM that can do simple stuff like blessing system folders and what not. Terminal would be a real bonus as well. You might say "But there's no room for a DIN-4 on a MacBook Pro 2x!!!!" I think a simple Ethernet to DIN-4 adaptor would suffice (or ThunderBolt to DIN-4). "But what if the FTP or the system ROM gets expanded with new features?" No problem, use programmable ROM chips that are cheap and easy to burn, and they plug into a DIP socket or something like that.
Something like that.
As for OS X with floppy drives, watch out for extraneous fat that the system plops onto the disk. 1.3MB could be suddenly reduced to 1MB free space without warning.
If you want to access the internet, there have been a handful of users here and elsewhere that have made pseudo PPP networks. Basically, dial-up-like but without the modem. I'll be looking into a writeup on how to do that once a certain member gets back from spring break.
If you're finding it difficult bridging the gap between your old Mac and your new one, hit up my site and I can put whatever images you need onto 800K floppies. It'll save you a ton of time and money spent on extra hardware.
tryin to generate little $$ for your self there..
not trying to start any issue's, but how is it we post a link to freely available 6.0.8 image(from apple) (slightly modified for powerbook 140/170) and it gets snipped,
and you basically not only steal and pirate absolutely copyrighted software, but you sell it for profit, how in the hell is this allowed?
and you basically not only steal and pirate absolutely copyrighted software, but you sell it for profit, how in the hell is this allowed?
Forum rules still apply. Download links to commercially distributed software and games (no matter how old, no matter how unclear the ownership of the rights is) is forbidden.
Additionally, the 68kMLA isn't really an appropriate place to advertise a commercial service such as sales of pre-prepared floppy diskettes on a web page with automation and e-commerce.
It would be different if it really were stuff that was definitely on Apple's old software downloads, that you were doing as a one-off favor to somebody. This, like repairing eMacs in a warehouse, crosses a line.
Additionally, the 68kMLA isn't really an appropriate place to advertise a commercial service such as sales of pre-prepared floppy diskettes on a web page with automation and e-commerce.
It would be different if it really were stuff that was definitely on Apple's old software downloads, that you were doing as a one-off favor to somebody. This, like repairing eMacs in a warehouse, crosses a line.
Just a note on ethernet to localtalk bridges... Asante made them under three different product names. One was the AsantePrint. The next was the MicroAsantePrint (reduced size to card deck). The third was the AsanteTalk.
As others have mentioned, they do not bridge TCP/IP, only AppleTalk traffic. I find one extremely handy to have, but you really need a bridge machine which can run an OS old enough to use AFP, but modern enough to use TCP/IP. I'm not sure what range that is. I think it's something like 8.6 through 10.3.x or did TCP/IP sharing support start in 9.1?
They're also nice if you get an older printer which has LocalTalk built-in but lacks Ethernet (many of the HP models, e.g.).
Anyway, the thing I'm going to add, is that if you're searching for them on Ebay, you can look under those three names, but also search with the words in the name separated.
For example, I searched for "Asantetalk" and the few results I got all cost about $50 with shipping. Then I searched for "asante talk" and found several of them under $20, although one of them was sans power supply, I think.
The AsanteTalk is probably the most common. When Apple started selling the iMac, which lacked serial ports (LocalTalk) but had ethernet built in, Asante changed the MicroAsantePrint to the AsanteTalk, removed a few of the network management features present in the former, lowered the price and sold a ton of them. So the AsanteTalk probably had the most volume and was the most recently sold.
As others have mentioned, they do not bridge TCP/IP, only AppleTalk traffic. I find one extremely handy to have, but you really need a bridge machine which can run an OS old enough to use AFP, but modern enough to use TCP/IP. I'm not sure what range that is. I think it's something like 8.6 through 10.3.x or did TCP/IP sharing support start in 9.1?
They're also nice if you get an older printer which has LocalTalk built-in but lacks Ethernet (many of the HP models, e.g.).
Anyway, the thing I'm going to add, is that if you're searching for them on Ebay, you can look under those three names, but also search with the words in the name separated.
For example, I searched for "Asantetalk" and the few results I got all cost about $50 with shipping. Then I searched for "asante talk" and found several of them under $20, although one of them was sans power supply, I think.
The AsanteTalk is probably the most common. When Apple started selling the iMac, which lacked serial ports (LocalTalk) but had ethernet built in, Asante changed the MicroAsantePrint to the AsanteTalk, removed a few of the network management features present in the former, lowered the price and sold a ton of them. So the AsanteTalk probably had the most volume and was the most recently sold.
In the old Kermit days, you could type in a ridiculously long string and run EXEC to download your own copy of Kermit.
Thankfully I have never used computers without access to the internet or bulletin boards (and I am one of the older contributors here, by age). On occasions I have been saved by people popping a boot disk for a CP/M computer in the post. I have done the same for others.
8.6 supports AFP over TCP/IP if you get AppleShare IP 5.0, which was expensive.
Otherwise, 9.0 -> 9.2.2 support AFP over TCP/IP through a limited licensed built-in copy of Shareway IP Personal.
10.3.9 is the last OS to support AFP over AppleTalk. 10.4+ require AFP over TCP/IP.
Yup, I was in the same boat as you as far as not being able to do any legacy suff in Lion becasue of the lack of HFS support.
Luckily I havea a Mac Mini lying around that I wasn't using. I decided to turn it into a headless vintage suppport machine. It just sits on my desk connected to the network without a keyboard monitor or mouse. I installed 10.5 on it for HFS support. When I need to do some legacy stuff, I just share the screen with my Mac Pro and move files onto it over the network and get the legacy files off on HFS formatted Zip disks. Works like a charm, and it's so small it's not like I have a huge Mac sitting around getting in the way. I also made it that much more useful by connecting my MagicJack to it. (VoIP phone for those that don't know.)
Luckily I havea a Mac Mini lying around that I wasn't using. I decided to turn it into a headless vintage suppport machine. It just sits on my desk connected to the network without a keyboard monitor or mouse. I installed 10.5 on it for HFS support. When I need to do some legacy stuff, I just share the screen with my Mac Pro and move files onto it over the network and get the legacy files off on HFS formatted Zip disks. Works like a charm, and it's so small it's not like I have a huge Mac sitting around getting in the way. I also made it that much more useful by connecting my MagicJack to it. (VoIP phone for those that don't know.)
6.0.8 is freely available, as you say, from Apple. Legal permission to modify or re-distribute it is not.
well i didn't post the link, as i wouldn't… only because its not worth hearing it from the peanut gallery.
but do i personally think its a problem? no! but like i said, trying to avoid peanut gallery bicker from mods.
but do i personally think its a problem? no! but like i said, trying to avoid peanut gallery bicker from mods.
Seriously? "Peanut gallery bickering" - from the mods? You do know what the word mod means, right?
You seem to be operating under a number of misapprehensions about how the world works, and your importance in it. This is Cory's party - you are a guest here. He owes you exactly diddly-squat. And because he knows that internet parties sometimes attract douchecakes, he's hired us as bouncers.
The house rules are posted where everyone can see them. They're a condition of entry. You agreed to them when you signed up. If you don't like those rules, feel free to find another party. I'm sure we'll live.
On the other hand, as long as you don't piss on the carpet and pick fights with the DJ, we'll get along fine. What you don't get to do is hang around making an ass of yourself whining about what a shitty party it is.
Seriously, that's just plain rude.
You seem to be operating under a number of misapprehensions about how the world works, and your importance in it. This is Cory's party - you are a guest here. He owes you exactly diddly-squat. And because he knows that internet parties sometimes attract douchecakes, he's hired us as bouncers.
The house rules are posted where everyone can see them. They're a condition of entry. You agreed to them when you signed up. If you don't like those rules, feel free to find another party. I'm sure we'll live.
On the other hand, as long as you don't piss on the carpet and pick fights with the DJ, we'll get along fine. What you don't get to do is hang around making an ass of yourself whining about what a shitty party it is.
Seriously, that's just plain rude.
I am Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo TIRED of you BUNSEN,
bunsen please save it before i lose any level of respect for you.
Most of us have lost whatever respect we have for you. You're moody, hard to please, creepy as all-get-out, and your posts are very hard to read, as though something's not quite clicking in your brain when you get home at night, and feel the need to make the same post twice.
You can stay, but there's no automatic respect. You need to earn that by being nice, well-written, not creepy, and maybe even having useful information about Macs. (What with this being a Mac forum, and not an "opinion about forum moderators" forum.)
No comment. c
BACK ON TOPIC boys and girls
The best success I've had is using an external SCSI drive. My 8600 (tri-boot 10.2.8, 9.2.2 or 7.5.5) and my iMac (10.6.8 ) are on the Ethernet hub. So I hook the external SCSI to the 8600, copy from iMac to 8600 and then onto the external drive. Once I've copied what I want, I connect the external SCSI to the SE.
The only complication I ran into is if I have too large of a SCSI drive in the external case. 2MB is about max. Sometimes the SE argues with the external drive, particularly if it is partitioned, but I have had success with single drives. I've configured this SE to dual-boot between 6.0.8 & 7.5.5. I managed to stuff two physical drives in the case.
For a few small files, there's always Appletalk as a backup.
Just my opinion.
The best success I've had is using an external SCSI drive. My 8600 (tri-boot 10.2.8, 9.2.2 or 7.5.5) and my iMac (10.6.8 ) are on the Ethernet hub. So I hook the external SCSI to the 8600, copy from iMac to 8600 and then onto the external drive. Once I've copied what I want, I connect the external SCSI to the SE.
The only complication I ran into is if I have too large of a SCSI drive in the external case. 2MB is about max. Sometimes the SE argues with the external drive, particularly if it is partitioned, but I have had success with single drives. I've configured this SE to dual-boot between 6.0.8 & 7.5.5. I managed to stuff two physical drives in the case.
For a few small files, there's always Appletalk as a backup.
Just my opinion.
Thank you!
I think something like the exchange above is best done via private messaging.
Politics!
c
The exchange was somewhat out of place and somewhat out of character for what I have experienced thus far to be a friendly forum full of enthusiasts.
On Topic:
In terms of SCSI drives, can these be hooked up to a PC? A SCSI card needed?
Or, what I was thinking of using SCSI zip drive -> sneakernet the disk across the desk -> Parallel zip drive -> HFVExplorer or Transmac the disk. Can even use this for backing up the disk on to the PC.
Could swap the SCSI drive between the Classic 2 and the Plus to allow for different versions of stuffit.
I'm not versed in SCSI, can it act like NAS, can 2 machines daisychain onto a single drive? Does System 6/7 handle file locking well?
On Topic:
In terms of SCSI drives, can these be hooked up to a PC? A SCSI card needed?
Or, what I was thinking of using SCSI zip drive -> sneakernet the disk across the desk -> Parallel zip drive -> HFVExplorer or Transmac the disk. Can even use this for backing up the disk on to the PC.
Could swap the SCSI drive between the Classic 2 and the Plus to allow for different versions of stuffit.
I'm not versed in SCSI, can it act like NAS, can 2 machines daisychain onto a single drive? Does System 6/7 handle file locking well?
The post directly before Bunsen's was five or six days old. I would argue it was safe to say this thread was in the process of going dormant.
In the old days, this was called PostCount++ and there was a rule against it. If you don't have a comment that adds some kind of worthwhile content to the thread, don't make a post.
Please understand the rules if you're going to quote them at the administrator. The politics rule is designed to reduce the incidence of people having terrible Internet fights over different political views. If you and I favored different candidates for a particular office, and those candidates had significantly different viewpoints, for example. That rule also covers religion and "other sensitive subjects" at the discretion of the mods/admins.
In my experience, sometimes after so much private messaging and warning and temporary banning, you either have to tell somebody how it is, in a space where everybody can see, or ban them. Whenever possible, I prefer not to ban people, especially people who appear to at least have the smallest modicum of interest in the hobby. This is me trying to avoid banning somebody outright.
I try very hard to foster a friendly community. My goal is to have something that those of us with small children can leave up when they come into the room, or have on our displays when we're at work, and not worry if customers or bosses see. Unfortunately, some people don't seem interested in having that atmosphere.
Ethernet is ideal if at all possible, and it happens to be possible on almost every 68K Mac. As Sun once said, "the network is the computer." If you don't have a varied enough Mac selection (or the requisite Thursby software) to do direct file sharing with an OS X machine, run netatalk on a Linux or BSD box (or VM). It's 2012 now and there is definitely no reason for people to be doing sneakernet anymore.
Networking needs the ethernet mac adaptor.
I do have a crossover cable that could be used to share onto the Linux box, and I've been trying to fix the phone line into mission control to put the wireless router (with 4 RJ45 ports).
Sneakernet is the easiest way. In my mind the compacts were designed for the days when computers like these were usually standalone and networking / appletalk was thought of as an addon.
I do have a crossover cable that could be used to share onto the Linux box, and I've been trying to fix the phone line into mission control to put the wireless router (with 4 RJ45 ports).
Sneakernet is the easiest way. In my mind the compacts were designed for the days when computers like these were usually standalone and networking / appletalk was thought of as an addon.
I'm not sure what you've got, but the original poster has an SE/30, which can take an ethernet card. Other compacts can use SCSI-to-ethernet adapters, although I have no experience with them myself (I am mostly into NuBus machines).
If you are just trying to move files as a one-off and sneakernet is easier for that, you may have a point, but if this is to be a regular thing, a network is the proper way. Whether they were designed to be on a network or not is irrelevant unless you are trying really hard to be period-appropriate, but even then, LocalTalk was a thing at the time that Apple pushed, even if not for much more than sharing one LaserWriter between multiple machines. It may not have been commonplace among machines that ended up in homes, but almost all Macs were absolutely designed to be networked. Declaring networking to be an "addition" (whatever you mean by that) is no good reason to not make use of it.
If you are just trying to move files as a one-off and sneakernet is easier for that, you may have a point, but if this is to be a regular thing, a network is the proper way. Whether they were designed to be on a network or not is irrelevant unless you are trying really hard to be period-appropriate, but even then, LocalTalk was a thing at the time that Apple pushed, even if not for much more than sharing one LaserWriter between multiple machines. It may not have been commonplace among machines that ended up in homes, but almost all Macs were absolutely designed to be networked. Declaring networking to be an "addition" (whatever you mean by that) is no good reason to not make use of it.
Scrub my previous comment about this being a friendly community.
What I meant was that out of the box (or whatever they arrived in), for example my plus and classic 2 don't have any network interfaces. It is possible to buy SE/30 ethernet cards, SCSI to ethernet adaptors, but what I am finding is that anything apple branded be it a mac plus mouse or an ethernet adaptor seems to command a premium on ebay (and ebay seems to be the only place to obtain vintage apple gear locally unfortunately, and not even counting the usual postage which internationally can be expensive).
Yes of course they can network, and if file transfers are frequent the most elegant solution.
They had no ethernet interface out of the box, but they had localtalk.
Using the Apple Internet Router (bridges localtalk and ethernet and gives you zones) running on an LC475 as a bridge machine on my Appletalk network, I have successfully connected via localtalk to an ASIP server serving files over ethernet, and mounted a 500gb share on a Macintosh Classic II, running 7.1. The CII could see the file directory and all, despite it being an HFS+ drive. So it can be done with a little period equipment, though I confess that I have not tried to mount the same shared drive on a machine running System 6.
You'd possibly be able to accomplish the same thing using one of those little Asante bridges, or possibly Localtalk Bridge, though I have not found these to be nearly as robust as the Apple Internet Router software.
Using the Apple Internet Router (bridges localtalk and ethernet and gives you zones) running on an LC475 as a bridge machine on my Appletalk network, I have successfully connected via localtalk to an ASIP server serving files over ethernet, and mounted a 500gb share on a Macintosh Classic II, running 7.1. The CII could see the file directory and all, despite it being an HFS+ drive. So it can be done with a little period equipment, though I confess that I have not tried to mount the same shared drive on a machine running System 6.
You'd possibly be able to accomplish the same thing using one of those little Asante bridges, or possibly Localtalk Bridge, though I have not found these to be nearly as robust as the Apple Internet Router software.
I offered an answer to the question posed by this thread. There was no obligation for that answer to be friendly, specifically, but if you actually found it hostile, you may want to grow a thicker skin. Ultimately it's not my concern whether you find my comments, or this community as a whole, to be friendly, though, so do as you like.
Try posting a WTB on the LowEndMac Swap List or the Trading Post here. I've gotten some good things off of eBay, but swap lists and forums tend to be more effective and cheaper (and people tend to be more flexible about shipping, which sounds like a major concern for you). There's no getting around the fact that old computer hobbies cost money, though, and this particular one will probably get more expensive as time goes on.
Actually AppleTalk was designed into the Mac from the beginning, something other PC makers never even considered, then again they had slots for such things. So in that regard, Apple was very forward thinking in that they knew they were designing a closed box and would need to provide for some sort of expansion ... Something that is definitely more than any consumer product needed, so they clearly had an eye toward business from the beginning.
And for the money AppleTalk was a very inexpensive solution compared to PC networking of the day (though one can argue it was made up for in the price of the Mac itself). For a time, it was the cheapest, fastest, and not to mention easiest solution on the market, making the Mac very attractive to small businesses. The Achilles heal was that Apple did not have networking software in place when the LocalTalk solution was introduced, nor were there any good hard drive solutions for the networking software that did exist.
However, whether Apple intended compacts to be standalone computers, the success of the Laserwriter in 1985 cemented the importance of networking (which for the next two and half years only existed in compact Mac form), and from the SE era going forward all of the solutions being mentioned here were readily available on the market, easy to come by, and very expensive -- as were all Ethernet solutions available for any platform. Network was not cheap, either inherently due to economies of scale or technologies involved, or artificially so gouging businesses unnecessarily because they could. Either way, AppleTalk remained the least expensive way for ANY Mac (or PC for that matter) to network until file sizes and the number of users became unmanagble, and Apple began building Ethernet capabilities into the Mac, by which time the compact Mac had been discontinued -- and I'm convinced because Gil Amelio had no idea what he was doing or what the market wanted -- think about it, as an entry level computer it was basically an affordable iMac. And for the record, the Color Classic had built-in expansion slot for Ethernet, something only introduced with entry-level computers a couple of years before with the LC.
So I can only assume you mean these solutions are expensive and hard to come by now ... 20 years after the market for them has eviscerated. And in that regard, I agree that sneakernet is the best way to transfer files with the original Macs today, specifically with the ZIP drive, mainly because Ethernet requires too many intermediaries to be compatible with current Macs, and as you observed, the cost of the vintage equipment which is also hard to come by. And this works with all but the original stock 128K & 512K, for which MacTerminal is the next easiest method directly out of an Modern Mac, described here: http://mac128.com/Mac128/Mac_128_Update/Entries/2007/8/17_Easily_Transfer_Files_between_a_128K_running_System_1.0_and_OS_X_Tiger_on_an_Intel_Mac%2C_wirelessly!.html
I have a USB Zip 100 connected to my Thinkpad. And i have a SCSI Zip 100 for the mac side of things.
To transfer files from and to the disks i use hfsutils-tcltk, a package in the current and next version of Debian. To start the GUI run xhfs.
Easy.
To transfer files from and to the disks i use hfsutils-tcltk, a package in the current and next version of Debian. To start the GUI run xhfs.
Easy.
A while back, found an Asante Desktop EN/SC LAN box that connected to the SCSI port of my Classic II. Through that, I manually configured the TCP/IP settings, using my router to set up a fixed IP address. Running the Classic II on OS 7.53, Revision 2, and gaining web access through Netscape Navigator 2.02. I can access most web sites, though it's much easier and faster to go through Loband.
If you get that far, then there are all kinds of software for compact Macs on the web.
If you get that far, then there are all kinds of software for compact Macs on the web.