Thread

haplain's never-ending quest

haplain's never-ending quest Hardware 252 posts Nov 4, 2013 — Feb 7, 2019

#91 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 08:56

that would explain the new power plug, need more power for that beastly G5… do we see any battery in the thing?

if so does it look like any battery pack we have ever seen? -- i know that was the deal with the g5, battery life was bad bad bad.

Holy s**t 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o 8-o

you might have the only G5 power book that exhists…

I know when you originally sent me the email when you first picked it up.

You were like, Oh -ah- ya, I picked some proto mac laptop thing…

then i saw the pictures and said to my self oh wait a minute here….

#92 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 09:03

Look at those massive FFFFFEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTSSSSSSS!!!!!! I guess a LOT of airflow was required for the G5 to operate in that tight of a space. I wonder if it is a prototype chip as well or just a stock G5 slapped on a PowerBook LoBo.

#93 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 09:07

Probably has a 1.6ghz G5 that was used in an iMac…

or maybe they were experimenting with down clocking the G5 to see if they could make it work with some kind of tricky power management. like goes down to 1 - 1.2ghz when idle, and then could kick up to 1.8 ghz when high cpu utilization?

If i was an engineer working on it at the time… and was given a watt hungry pos like the G5 to shoe horn into a lappy, that is about all i would have came up with.

lol

http://news.cnet.com/Apple-on-G5-PowerBook-Not-so-fast/2100-1044_3-5559311.html

"It'd be this really thick, heavy notebook, and it would be loud as all get-out," said Kevin Krewell, editor in chief of the Microprocessor Report. "Those would not be design choices that Apple would want to pursue."

sounds like they caught a sight of this prototype

The main thing holding back a G5 PowerBook is the chip itself. IBM technical documents show that when running at 2.5GHz and 1.3 volts, the chip consumes a maximum of 100 watts of power, a fair amount of juice for a notebook. However, its power consumption can be reduced by lowering its clock speed or reducing its clock speed along with its voltage, IBM documentation shows.

i see the dilemma.

Thus, to fit the G5 into a typical PowerBook-size chassis, Apple would have to throttle down the G5, causing the chip to run more slowly than current G4 mobile chips

yeah the G4 you could clock that monkey up there. didn't they top out at like 1.67 in the G4 Powerbook?

#94 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 09:17

Looking at the sticker, I can just barely make out 1.1GHz and 1.4GHz on the CPU line. It looks to read as follows:

1.1GHz, DD2.0 (P1) 1.4GHz, DD2.0, 45W (P2).

For me its really blurry, so the only that can confirm would be hap.

yeah the G4 you could clock that monkey up there. didn't they top out at like 1.67 in the G4 Powerbook?

Yep, the Rev D and E models. 1.67GHz came in the 15" and 17" models. The 12" only went to 1.5GHz. But remember, the G4 was 32-bit. The jump to the 64-bit G5 would have been huge. Too bad the 1st Gen Intel Macs were only 32-bit.

#95 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 09:24

I'll let you know as soon as I can get more photos. It's a clock-able CPU via dip switches. After having read what you all have said, I can almost with 100% certainty say she's a G5. I don't want to jinks it but based on what the engineer said about power consumption, the power supply configuration, and the fact I know this model was never released all point to it being a G5. I'm almost 100% certain the engineer said it was 64 bit too, pointing to a G5 chip. If that's the case, well then I know what's the newest top dog in my collection.

#96 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 09:28

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1348320

But the kicker for IBM and its customers is that the PowerPC 970FX is a one-size-fits-all architecture that accommodates servers as well as notebooks.
"The portable-space specs that are out there talk about 15 to 30 watts for maximum power. We want to be inside that envelope," Rohrer said. "The low-frequency operating conditions in the idle state?nap?are in the 1- to 2-watt range."

That will mean that any G5 notebooks will likely be clocked somewhat lower than the current G5 desktops.

In one hypothetical example of a low-power state, Rohrer said a PowerPC 970FX in the 1/64 "deep nap" state could run at 30MHz, which would equate to about 1.9GHz in full-speed mode. Apple's shipping dual-processor G5 desktops range in speed from 1.8GHz to 2.5GHz.

"That's the whole intention of this, to make it usable in low-end servers ... down into portables," Rohrer said. "To do that, you can't start with high voltage and high frequency; you can't hit 50 watts. You've got to start with a lower voltage and lower frequency and [then] adjust the voltage and drop the frequency."

yeah i can see, i bet apple was just waiting to pop one of IBM's new moble CPU's in there… IBm couldn't make it happen in time… Intel was ready to go, Dual core too! so By By ibm.

#97 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 09:35

1.4 DD2.0, 45W (P2).

there you go… that is proof in my book…

yes its a G5 cpu…

at the time the G4 Powerbook 1.5ghz was 21 watts

#98 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 09:39

I can't wait to see more of this machine. RetroMacCast will probably want you back too, to discuss this rare beast of a machine.

Also, whats that power supply rated at? I can only imagine what is required to feed such a power hungry processor. 8-o

#99 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 16:36

I've said it before but - man Hap, you find the coolest toys.

#100 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 18:51

Some thoughts regarding the possibility of it being a PowerBook G5...

1. It must not be a standard PowerBook G4 motherboard. The G5 used a completely different chip set, thus if it even smells like a G4 board, the idea of it having a G5 is right out.

2. The power curve seems a little low, but might be in the realm of possibility. The 17" MacBook Pros came with a 60W power supply, so if the whole point of the G5 not being in a notebook is that it was power hungry, having "only" a 45W PSU seems low. (For comparison, my 12" PowerBook G4 came with a 45W power supply. The slowest released G5 was 1.6 GHz, and the 17" iMac at that speed had a whopping 180W power supply. (It had to drive a desktop HD and higher-power graphics chip, but that's still quite a difference. *BUT* power usage is an exponential curve. It is entirely possible that Apple+IBM developed a lower-power chipset, and that by running the processor as slow as the apparent 1.1 GHz might have given just enough to allow it in a mobile form-factor. (That said, I would have to assume this was a very early "feasibility study" prototype, and that it likely had a very short battery life, with the thought that they would improve it by production-time.)

#101 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 19:00

She's no clear portable...

If it's what we think it is - it's 10x a clear Portable. If it's what we think it is, it's approaching "mint condition unmodified Lisa" in "historical worth". It could very well be in the neighborhood of an Apple I.

#102 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 19:35

It all adds up - dates, codenames, power consumption. You've got me extremely excited now!

#103 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 19:58

The 17" MacBook Pros came with a 60W power supply, so if the whole point of the G5 not being in a notebook is that it was power hungry, having "only" a 45W PSU seems low.

at the time the G4 Powerbook 1.5ghz was 21 watts

The 45W is not talking about the PSU. The 45W is how much power the processor its self is pulling. This means that the G5 in the PowerBook would be pulling 2x the watts of the G4 (thanks for the watts uni!). I'm willing to bet that the PSU is rated at 85+ watts, but hap would need to confirm, and thats if it has any markings at all.

#104 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 20:14

From what I saw the PSU is entirely unmarked. I mean even the way the power chord from the wall plugs in is slight different than ANY mac charger. I mention that because I'd assume they wanted to make sure that no one would accidentally plug in this massive power brick into the.

The computer clearly says Q51 on it and the engineer said they it wasn't released because of terrible battery life and a massive power brick. It's a really cool find indeed. If it is a G5, hold onto your butts

#105 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 20:33

i thought i was just talking about cpu power consumption.

well maybe there is all kinds of cool diagnostic utilities on the hd that shows individual component power consumptions… that would be bad ass!

#106 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 23:05

If it is a G5, I would say it is a one of a kind. No other G5 PowerBooks have surfaced in the past and its probably more rare then the Twiggy Mac!

#107 Tue, 24 Dec 2013 - 23:34

And if it is a G5, while a bit late to the party, MANY forum users (MacRumors, etc) are gonna be eating their words! Remember when a PowerBook G5 was the butt end of jokes for so long? Even after the first Intel desktops came out.

#108 Thu, 26 Dec 2013 - 05:29

Holy cow. I'm not at all surprised that Apple built a G5 PowerBook prototype, but seeing as how this is the first glimpse of one they clearly did not get very far with it.

Tell you what, in this hobby it is not very often that we get "new" stuff. If I had this I might check with Lloyd of London on having it insured.

#109 Thu, 26 Dec 2013 - 16:33

I received a copy of "Iconic" for Christmas and they have some photos of a first-gen MacBook (Pro? I think it's just a MacBook) Prototype that is quite similar to Hap's acrylic rig here. Not the same but the engineering prototype rigging is of the same type.

#110 Thu, 26 Dec 2013 - 23:12

I know the guy who owns that. He's a really nice fella, you should see what else he's got. His works and is an Intel Core Duo that never shipped in the MacBooks. It's a nice piece indeed. I was going to post a pic of that myself but thanks mcdermd. That again confirms Apple still uses clear/transparent shots to this day. It's not the same as the older ones that the whole machine was actually plastic but just to get all the pieces together to evaluate.

I've got another example I'll post tonight of extremely recent clear shot stuff

#111 Thu, 26 Dec 2013 - 23:53

I figured this just accentuates the differences between EVT and DVT prototypes.

#112 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 00:52

Here's a really recent example of some more clear shot stuff...

#113 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 01:03

For me its really blurry, so the only that can confirm would be hap.

Here's that sticker for you all to see

#114 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 01:40

Assembled in Taiwan? Weird. One would think it would have been assembled in the US at Apple HQ.

#115 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 02:09

Found this:

http://www.elvikom.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?p=86420

Edit: I'll let this forum draw their conclusions from this schematic, but I already know what it means...

#116 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 03:32

Well that answers that. So the same processor and southbridge as in the iMac.

#117 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 04:18

Assembled in Taiwan? Weird. One would think it would have been assembled in the US at Apple HQ.

I'm sure it means that the logic board was assembled by Foxconn in Taiwan, not the entire test rig.

#118 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 04:50

His works and is an Intel Core Duo that never shipped in the MacBooks.

I know for sure the first black and white 1,1 MacBooks shipped with 1.83 and 2.0GHz processors as my brother has one. They were 32-bit only and stuck on Snow Leopard. Its clear though so thats cool!

Here's that sticker for you all to see

Ok so its probably going to have a 1.1GHz G5. It might have a faster one, since nothing was checked off.

Also notice how everything denoting it as a Q51 machine has been crossed out. I might (and there is a slim chance of this) be one of the first "Plan B" PowerBooks, as in it has an Intel processor (maybe a Pentium 4 like the Developer machines in the G5 case?). The engineer you bought it from did say it was never released, so I'm still in the G5 group.

#119 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 04:56

I got it to boot once into 10.4 so that mean's it's a PPC machine right? Fixed the backlight so there's large victory but need to get a screen shot of the System Specs. I didn't check the System Specs when it loaded to 10.4 since I didn't think about it. I can get it to boot into Open Firmware at anytime. Does anyone know a command to have the machine list its specs in Open Firmware? That will solve this once and for all.

#120 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 - 05:03

Open Firmware is PCC! This is good news! Intel's used EFI in place of OF.

I'll check and see if there is a command. The only time I used OF was to make the system think the processor was faster so I could install Leopard.