Thread
Somebody has to buy this NOW
Okay, One day to go
This showed up with the listing along with some interesting commentary...
It doesn't seem to have crossed the boyoh's mind that, if he were selling the greyscale card alone, few would be obliged to believe in it without a displayed picture on the selling page. So why should they be any more credulous about the same card inside the SE/30 without a picture of those same insides? Unreal, and unprofessional. No time for pictures? Then don't waste our time with slipshod presentation.
de
Here's his response
"Don't bid then. My ebay reputation precedes me which you can see for yourself."
Reputation means nothing if someone hacked his account and is attempting to scam. This person also seems very rude. I wouldn't buy from him if he was selling $5 bills for $1.
And that new photo proves nothing. It shows a compact with a card in a slot with no indication that the card is indeed the claimed Micron Xceed or that it is even a picture of the same machine he is selling. I also still don't see a video out on that card. Isn't the grayscale adapter supposed to be on a separate daughter card? I don't see a daughter card in that photo. There is also no proof of any of the other upgrades that are supposedly in it. He goes on to say it is too hard to disassemble the machine, but isn't the hardest part getting the case off?? Once that's done, the motherboard is easy.
And my question somehow does not appear in the listing. I thought all questions concerning an item automatically appeared?? Does the seller control which questions can appear??
"Don't bid then. My ebay reputation precedes me which you can see for yourself."
Reputation means nothing if someone hacked his account and is attempting to scam. This person also seems very rude. I wouldn't buy from him if he was selling $5 bills for $1.
And that new photo proves nothing. It shows a compact with a card in a slot with no indication that the card is indeed the claimed Micron Xceed or that it is even a picture of the same machine he is selling. I also still don't see a video out on that card. Isn't the grayscale adapter supposed to be on a separate daughter card? I don't see a daughter card in that photo. There is also no proof of any of the other upgrades that are supposedly in it. He goes on to say it is too hard to disassemble the machine, but isn't the hardest part getting the case off?? Once that's done, the motherboard is easy.
And my question somehow does not appear in the listing. I thought all questions concerning an item automatically appeared?? Does the seller control which questions can appear??
Yes. eBay states, in Ask Seller a Question, 'Note: The seller may [my emphasis] include your question in the item description.'
de
I've receive such ludacrous responses from other fishy classic Mac sellers in the past. I tried to warn others about them in a new thread on this site, but many EBAY sellers flocked to that thread, created a cry and moan session, and forced me to cease posting in it. Indeed, most EBAY sellers think they have the power to do anything, even get away with unethical or even criminal behavior. (Good classic Mac sellers like 003 are clearly excluded from what I'm talking about here. I always give praise where praise is due, along side those who deserve criticism.)
But as I wrote in my previous post in this thread, all your positive EBAY feedback is immediately tarnished when you act sufficiently stupid one time. This appears to be that sellers one time.
One thing I have done in the past to help others is write the absolute truth to them. There are times when I really wanted to bid on a given item, but the seller was rude and didn't want to answer any questions! At that point I decided I was no longer interested. I then fired off emails to other bidders who were listed, warning them of a possible bad deal. Most were members of the classic Mac community, like all of us here, and were happy to receive the insight, as they had not sufficiently questioned the seller to see if he was legitimate.
Sadly, EBAY changed things and you now cannot email other bidders with warning tips when the price goes past a certain point. While this in some way may protect bidders, it also hurts them too as no one can warn them of impending danger.
Hence, the only thing you can do in this particular auction is continue to hammer on the seller and just watch the poor soul who buys the thing. No doubt he'll pop up on this site after a while if he has an "unexpected problem."
But for future auctions, perhaps if we all knew each others EBAY names, we could warn each other of possible fraud via direct email (or PM). There should be some way we can work to help each other in this regard!
The only way people learn about fire is to be burned, same with bad ebay auctions.
I don't expect a large volume seller to answer many (or any questions) about a $1 item he has listed, but I do expect them to answer a question or take a picture for a single item that starts out at a few hundred dollars and could be worthless depending on what is included. They need to put in some effort to squeeze the most money out of the buyer anyway.
All your ebay feedback means is if you have screwed anybody over they havn't left bad feedback as of yet. As with any auction you need to research what you are bidding on, and ask the appropriate questions before you bid or you can get burned.
I don't expect a large volume seller to answer many (or any questions) about a $1 item he has listed, but I do expect them to answer a question or take a picture for a single item that starts out at a few hundred dollars and could be worthless depending on what is included. They need to put in some effort to squeeze the most money out of the buyer anyway.
All your ebay feedback means is if you have screwed anybody over they havn't left bad feedback as of yet. As with any auction you need to research what you are bidding on, and ask the appropriate questions before you bid or you can get burned.
I was active on the PCGS (coin collectors) forum for a few years a while back, and the members there watch out for each other warning bidders away from counterfeit or other suspicious items and opening discussion forums when items which may be fraudulent or stolen appear so that if anyone wanders in wondering about an ebay item, they will see it and stay away. I myself found several coins with what appeared to be altered dates and sure enough, after viewing of the photos in the listing, persons more expert at spotting fakes than myself concluded that they were altered. This crap of hiding bidders name on certain items pretty well ensures that the scammers will continue to thrive on ebay instead of being shut down by vigilant members who know how to spot a scam taking place.
That is indeed the xceed video card and grayscale adapter. The grayscale adapter is appearntly, a homebrew.This showed up with the listing along with some interesting commentary...
You can tell it is the grayscale adapter because of the blue resistor, and if you look carefully you can kind of see the cable connecting to it on the bottom, going to the video card. You can also see the very thin black ground wire hooked up to the metal frame near the power supply, that is part of the 5-point cable, as well as the one in the top corner of the CRT.
I see a very strange black box right behind the area where the video out should be, with a cable connected to it. I have no idea what that is but it is not normal. I am guessing it is some part of the solid state hard drive.
I do not see an accelerator in the photo which means there is none, or it really is socketed and not visible in the picture. I am guessing the latter, really based on the guy's feedback.
In reality the auction is most likely legit and we are just making excuses as to why we won't bid on it, and be in denial about the fact that we knew it was legit all along, and really wanted it but could not afford it. If that picture is now in the auction, it is going to go for an extremley large sum of money. MUCH more than $500.
I will now repeat myself and say whoever placed the first bid is an effing tard to be quite honest. It is now going to go for much more than the buy it now price.
003 the more you talk the weirder you sound. Are you trying to get people to bid this up to $2000 so the $500 or so you sunk into your se/30 (money you seem to not have) sound more reasonable? I mean if it doesn't go over $400 will you freak or something? Get a grip.
Unknown_K, I actually told 003 about this auction prior to the start of this thread via PM. He returned my PM by saying he only wished he had the cash to buy it, but that such wasn't a luxury he could afford at the moment. I've spoken with 003 offline quite often in the past, and I sincerely believe he has no interest whatsoever in driving up the bid price for this auction. His posts merely express, however indirectly, his intense sorrow over not being able to snatch up this machine.
All the while, since most of us cannot afford this machine anyway, I have been trying to point out that not having this item may be for the best. It seems quite clear to me that this seller is a man of few ethical principles, and I personally wouldn't feel right about buying from someone like that. But when the good sellers come along, I am more than willing to let go of my cash. Funny, but the bad sellers try all manner of scams to get more cash inappropriately when they could make as much or more by legitimate and helpful transactions! We indeed reap what we sow.
Quadraman, I wish there was a way we could help out each other as you mention. But if the price gets too high the bidders are masked from us. So I suppose all we can do is simply help out others who are bidding on low priced items, which isn't really a lot of help considering most scams occur on the high priced items!
All the while, since most of us cannot afford this machine anyway, I have been trying to point out that not having this item may be for the best. It seems quite clear to me that this seller is a man of few ethical principles, and I personally wouldn't feel right about buying from someone like that. But when the good sellers come along, I am more than willing to let go of my cash. Funny, but the bad sellers try all manner of scams to get more cash inappropriately when they could make as much or more by legitimate and helpful transactions! We indeed reap what we sow.
Quadraman, I wish there was a way we could help out each other as you mention. But if the price gets too high the bidders are masked from us. So I suppose all we can do is simply help out others who are bidding on low priced items, which isn't really a lot of help considering most scams occur on the high priced items!
No I don't care how much it goes for. Let's recall why this thread was made, shall we? [
] ]'> I was merely pointing out that from that picture I am able to see it does indeed have the Xceed video card, grayscale adapter and 5-point cable. It also has that strange black box, I have no idea what it is but I think it has to do with the solid state hard drive.
I was pointing these things out because people were saying it didn't look like it had the grayscale adapter and the PDS card might not be the Xceed card.
Quite frankly I would not care about the attitude of the seller, as long as the auction is legit (which it appears to be), the rarity of the items in it would justify having used the buy it now option. Of course thats no longer possible and it is now going to sell for way more, unfortunately. I would like to reiterate how stupid the first bidder is again.
Now, this still might be a scam. Since there are no pictures of the machine powered on (which would be less work to photograph than removing the back cover), maybe the whole thing was fried in a bad accident and the seller is trying to unload his mess on someone else, and when they receive it, claim it was working when he shipped it and so it is not his problem.
I have a sneaking suspicion that if someone put in a snipe for $500.02, they might win it. I doubt the first bidder bid more than the $500 BIN or he would have just grabbed it for that price.
Now we are down to the final three hours and twenty minutes.
Currently going for $405.00 USD
Currently going for $405.00 USD
$577.89
Looks like the first bidder screwed himself by not using the BIN while it was there. How could they NOT think that this item was going to bid higher than that?
They were stupid.
I am surprised it went for only this low. There was recently an Xceed card on e-bay, without the 5 point cable or grayscale adapter, just the card alone, untested, that went for $535. My bet is that if he had more detailed pictures of the parts as well as pictures of it running, the bid would have been much, MUCH higher.
How can you say that? The original bidder had a max bid of $405, BIN was $500 which he didn't want to spend (and lost the auction). It is logical to put in a bid somewhere between the original minimum bid and lower then the BIN price in the hope there won't be too many people bidding. You do recall there wasn't much in the way of pictures when the 1st bid went in.
The guy was looking for a deal and it didn't pan out.
One data point means nothing. Don't confuse what you are willing to pay with what everybody else on the planet is willing to pay. Prices for niche stuff like this bounces all over the place depending on if the collector with the money has this item yet or not. Maybe if you didn't have this already you would have bid it up 003, but since you did it didn't go as high as you would have made it go otherwise.
Umm, if I didn't have one already and I had the cash, I would have used BIN in a heartbeat. If BIN no longer existed, I would use a esnipe.
If the original bidder had a max bid of $405 he shouldn't have bid. Yes, prices fluctuate for collectors items, but come on, you know as well as I something as rare as that would always sell for more than $500 no matter what....
If the original bidder had a max bid of $405 he shouldn't have bid. Yes, prices fluctuate for collectors items, but come on, you know as well as I something as rare as that would always sell for more than $500 no matter what....
Well, first of all, the original bidder did screw himself for one or more of the following
A. Knowing how much this stuff is worth, and trying to get a deal by underbidding rather than using the BIN.
B. Not knowing how much this stuff is worth, and bidding on an item he had no business bidding on in the first place.
C. Placing a bid on an item he obviously did not want. If he really wanted it he would have either BINned or placed a realistic bid and hoped he wasn't outbid later by someone with more money who didn't care about the price. $405 is most certainly not a realistic bid for this item since any one of the upgrades by themselves would sell for more than that on even a bad day. Having said that, this item still went way too cheap assuming it is legit.
A. Knowing how much this stuff is worth, and trying to get a deal by underbidding rather than using the BIN.
B. Not knowing how much this stuff is worth, and bidding on an item he had no business bidding on in the first place.
C. Placing a bid on an item he obviously did not want. If he really wanted it he would have either BINned or placed a realistic bid and hoped he wasn't outbid later by someone with more money who didn't care about the price. $405 is most certainly not a realistic bid for this item since any one of the upgrades by themselves would sell for more than that on even a bad day. Having said that, this item still went way too cheap assuming it is legit.
You guys are off your rocker. I lowball bids all the time and win. I just won (2) 18GB SCSI hds for $.99 a few minutes ago with $9 shipping, did I pay the going rate? HELL NO.
Maybe the guy knew it was worth $500+ and figured he might get it cheaper, it happens all the time.
The whole point of ebay to a buyer is to find deals way below market value, or he would just go pay market value at a store.
Maybe the guy knew it was worth $500+ and figured he might get it cheaper, it happens all the time.
The whole point of ebay to a buyer is to find deals way below market value, or he would just go pay market value at a store.
There's kind of a SLIGHT difference between a hard drive and an se/30 with some of the rarest upgrades ever made for it all in one auction...
Things which go unsaid (logic and common sense) dictate what can and can not be under bid.
And you know darn well that most of the people who bid on rare se/30 upgrades on e-bay are insane with how much money they spend.
Don't try and say it would be possible for an se/30 with a collection of the rarest and most sought after and absurdly expensive upgrades would EVER, in this or ANY parallel universe sell for $405 or less. Think rationally here. You seem to have a bias against the se/30 in saying you think the most maxed out se/30 would be only worth $50 to you. Well that's fine and good to be your opinion but it is not shared by any of the whack job se/30 bidders that patrol e-bay 24/7, unfortunately.
The value in the items is not really because of some amazing functionality (though they are cool), but because of collectors value and extreme rarity.
The auction did end at a very low price and I'm willing to bet it was because of:
1. The sellers attitude
2. The lack of internal pictures until near the end, and even then it was only one that was not very clear
3. The lack of pictures showing the unit powered on
4. Come on, only 3-4 pictures, and not even supersized??? For pete sakes ebay lets you put 12 pictures for the same price as 4 and supersize is not even a dollar, total.
Things which go unsaid (logic and common sense) dictate what can and can not be under bid.
And you know darn well that most of the people who bid on rare se/30 upgrades on e-bay are insane with how much money they spend.
Don't try and say it would be possible for an se/30 with a collection of the rarest and most sought after and absurdly expensive upgrades would EVER, in this or ANY parallel universe sell for $405 or less. Think rationally here. You seem to have a bias against the se/30 in saying you think the most maxed out se/30 would be only worth $50 to you. Well that's fine and good to be your opinion but it is not shared by any of the whack job se/30 bidders that patrol e-bay 24/7, unfortunately.
The value in the items is not really because of some amazing functionality (though they are cool), but because of collectors value and extreme rarity.
The auction did end at a very low price and I'm willing to bet it was because of:
1. The sellers attitude
2. The lack of internal pictures until near the end, and even then it was only one that was not very clear
3. The lack of pictures showing the unit powered on
4. Come on, only 3-4 pictures, and not even supersized??? For pete sakes ebay lets you put 12 pictures for the same price as 4 and supersize is not even a dollar, total.
I still would have to side with 003's logic a bit on this fellow. I mean, unless he's a complete newbie on EBAY, he should have known that the BIN was "a deal" relative to what that video card setup alone has sold for in the past.
But this one auction is merely one of many cases where the "lesser informed" or "ignorant" in our classic Mac community only work to drive up prices for us all. In my mind, it's not about grayscale cards or rare video cards, it's about anything we want to buy on EBAY (classic Mac merchandise, I mean). I often want to snap up a simple programmer's switch and someone things it's worth $20 and drives the price into outer space. While such utter stupidity may put smiles on the faces of sellers, it certainly causes me much bewilderment and frustration. For even when I myself was a "newbie" on EBAY, I had the sense to check out how other people bid and determined a "reasonable value" for items before I ever engaged in bidding.
Sometimes I feel we need a school specifically to train people how to exercise "good judgment" when it comes to bidding on EBAY!
Anyway, getting back more to the topic of this thread, I can only add that it is highly unlikely a grayscale setup will appear on EBAY for a price that any of us in this thread can afford (or would be willing to afford). I myself would spent a couple hundred dollars (as I did on a DiiMO CPU card recently), but certainly not more than that. Grayscale on an SE/30 is rare and would be really fund to tinker with, I know, but it's just not worth $500-$800 USD. No matter what way I look at it or how much I want it, I simply could never justify that cost.
You just don't get it, you do know that some people with that card never paid much of anything for it don't you? You are the same person who said it would go for $2000 or some crazy number, you paid more for your setup and it doesn't have a solid state SCSI HD either.
I know a few people with Apple IIgs with the high speed SCSI, transwarp cpu accelerator, 8MB RAM card that got them at a thrift store, all those put together will sell for more then $400 on ebay, but they paid $20 for it.
You have some stupid figure stuck in your head and nothing can bring you to believe that somebody can get a deal once in a while.
I have a Tokamac II FX accelerator for my Mac IIfx, they are VERY rare, never seen one on ebay, only pics of one on the net are of mine and somebody in Japan. Go find me one at any price anywhere. I paid $3 for it.
Casolai from IRC got a Newertech Nubus RAM card for the 840av for something like $7 NIB, it sold on ebay the same month for $300 ish I think, very rare card.
Deals can and will be found. Ebay is not the whole universe.
Deals can be found and they will be found. But e-bay is not a thrift store.
The difference between your IIfx accelerator and a grayscale setup is that the grayscale setup is in high demand and very well known about. I will admit, the first time I heard of the IIfx accelerator you speak of is right now.
The SE/30, for whatever reason, is also one of the most popular, if not THE most popular classic mac for collectors. I don't know why. It just is. And so the super rare upgrades for it go for extremley large sums of money because thats what the collectors are willing to pay. Is it possible you could walk into a thrift shop and find a grayscale setup sitting on a shelf for $15? yeah I guess it's possible. But how many times have you heard of that? None.
I only got the grayscale setup for the price I did because I asked the seller if he would end the auction early for me. And for whatever reason, he did. If the auction went to the end, it would have ended for a LOT of money. The grayscale setup seems to go for a lot more alone than it does already installed in an SE/30, also. I knew of it's rarity and I though the seller did as well, and was fully expecting him to say no. But when he said yes, what was I supposed to do? Say thanks but no thanks?
The auction in question here did not go for nearly as much as it should have and I attribute that to the fact that the seller had a bad attitude, he gave no pictures of it powered on, which would have been simpler to do than the picture of the inside, and the one picture of the inside was admittedly pretty vague. Quite seriously, each upgrade in that SE/30 assuming they are working, would sell on e-bay for way more than $500 a piece. I'm not trying to prevent people from getting deals and I never even contacted the seller. The whole reason I made this thread was so that maybe somebody here could buy it with buy it now, I would not want to drive up the price.
But what you don't seem to get is how rare and well known each of the upgrades is, and what kind of demand they are in. Yes, as you and I have already pointed out it is possible to get deals. But this was a strange one, and I have already explained more than once why it went for so low... I can't change your mind on anything but I can tell you what I know... you appearntly don't accept it. fine.
The difference between your IIfx accelerator and a grayscale setup is that the grayscale setup is in high demand and very well known about. I will admit, the first time I heard of the IIfx accelerator you speak of is right now.
The SE/30, for whatever reason, is also one of the most popular, if not THE most popular classic mac for collectors. I don't know why. It just is. And so the super rare upgrades for it go for extremley large sums of money because thats what the collectors are willing to pay. Is it possible you could walk into a thrift shop and find a grayscale setup sitting on a shelf for $15? yeah I guess it's possible. But how many times have you heard of that? None.
I only got the grayscale setup for the price I did because I asked the seller if he would end the auction early for me. And for whatever reason, he did. If the auction went to the end, it would have ended for a LOT of money. The grayscale setup seems to go for a lot more alone than it does already installed in an SE/30, also. I knew of it's rarity and I though the seller did as well, and was fully expecting him to say no. But when he said yes, what was I supposed to do? Say thanks but no thanks?
The auction in question here did not go for nearly as much as it should have and I attribute that to the fact that the seller had a bad attitude, he gave no pictures of it powered on, which would have been simpler to do than the picture of the inside, and the one picture of the inside was admittedly pretty vague. Quite seriously, each upgrade in that SE/30 assuming they are working, would sell on e-bay for way more than $500 a piece. I'm not trying to prevent people from getting deals and I never even contacted the seller. The whole reason I made this thread was so that maybe somebody here could buy it with buy it now, I would not want to drive up the price.
But what you don't seem to get is how rare and well known each of the upgrades is, and what kind of demand they are in. Yes, as you and I have already pointed out it is possible to get deals. But this was a strange one, and I have already explained more than once why it went for so low... I can't change your mind on anything but I can tell you what I know... you appearntly don't accept it. fine.
And the real problem here is that when enough guys bid $20 for an item such as you referenced, then sellers get the idea in their heads that $20 is the going rate and start setting reserves or higher opening bids or shilling their own auctions. It doesn't matter that only 0.1% of bidders are crazy enough to go that high but enough of them win that it creates a false perception about the rarity or desirability of the item and the rest of us with a more realistic idea of the value have no chance of ever getting one unless we play the same game, which fuels prices even further. Rare and valuable items deserve the high prices they get most of the time, more common items don't. This is the main reason I snipe rather than broadcast my intentions by bidding early. I also leave less of a trail to follow later if someone wants to check the most recent items I won. If the bids all end in the same price range and at or near my maximum bid, it gives both the opposition, as well any future seller of similar items, a chance to analyze my bids and figure out where my limits are. If the auctions I win end all over the place with no discernible pattern, it offers me some protection and more chances to win at lower prices.
X2 I get really annoying when I see untested se/30 logic boards with bad caps going on e-bay for $40 or more...
There is a lot of classic Mac merchandise being sold as "untested" and/or "AS/IS" despite the fact many of these sellers have it within their means to test. These same sellers are of the type who refuse to answer many questions and/or have lackluster photos, or even foolish misspellings in their listing. These types drive me nuts!
But I completely agree that common items found on EBAY often cost too much. And I absolutely hate it when a seller makes ignorant claims such as citing a Mac Plus as being "rare." Indeed, that adjective should be banned from 99% of all listings. It's a rare case when I truly see something "rare"! And folks, any item you see nearly every day on EBAY (like a Mac 128k) cannot be defined as "rare." Grayscale video for the SE/30 though is more true to the definition of "rare" than most other items I've seen on EBAY.
Now won't one of you out there just build us a $100 copy of the video board and grayscale card and drivers so we can all enjoy grayscale?!
But I completely agree that common items found on EBAY often cost too much. And I absolutely hate it when a seller makes ignorant claims such as citing a Mac Plus as being "rare." Indeed, that adjective should be banned from 99% of all listings. It's a rare case when I truly see something "rare"! And folks, any item you see nearly every day on EBAY (like a Mac 128k) cannot be defined as "rare." Grayscale video for the SE/30 though is more true to the definition of "rare" than most other items I've seen on EBAY.
Now won't one of you out there just build us a $100 copy of the video board and grayscale card and drivers so we can all enjoy grayscale?!
I have talked to the Micron Engineer who has the plans for those boards, waiting to hear when he is shipping them over (unless something happened). Was supposed to get all kind of docs/drivers/cards from him.
If I do get the schematics I will post them all. So maybe somebody could make a few hundred and send me one.
If I do get the schematics I will post them all. So maybe somebody could make a few hundred and send me one.