Thread
Networking a Powerbook Duo: serial -> OS X/unix -> internet
Faced with the dilemma of how to get files between my little Powerbook Duo 280 and Intel iMac and, better yet, getting her on the Internet, I took to the grand oracle Google for enlightenment. What I found were solutions requiring hardware and software I didn't have access to. My only tools: a KeySpan USB to Serial adaptor, serial cable, and telecom software on both ends.
That would be fine for the short term, and sending files to and fro via Zmodem sure brought back memories. But I wanted something a little more elegant. OS X doesn't support AppleShare over AppleTalk on LocalTalk, so that was out. And what was I to do about internet access?
Then it hit me -- I have a UNIX based machine sitting in front of me. One that surely has a PPP daemon. I could configure my iMac as modem-less dial-up ISP, and then use FreePPP/OtTCP on the Powerbook to access the 'net. Furthermore, OS X's FTP server would serve as a much nicer file transfer scenario than ZTerm.
So, in a nutshell, I:
1. Mated the Powerbook and iMac using the KeySpan adaptor and serial cable.
2. Used ZTerm (iMac) and Microsoft Works Communications (Powerbook) to transfer over FreePPP and iCab. (Had this Powerbook not had OS 8 which includes a TCP/IP stack, I would have used MacTCP.)
3. Configured TCP/IP with an IP address local to my network (in this case, 192.168.1.245). Used OpenDNS IP addresses for the DNS.
4. Configured FreePPP to use the Serial/Printer port, in lieu of the Powerbook's modem. Left the phone number field empty. Set the baudrate to max (230400).
5. Run the following with root privileges on the iMac:
sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1
(tell the Kernel we want to forward IP packets)
pppd 230400 tty.KeySerial1 local persist passive maxfail 0 proxyarp 192.168.1.102:192.168.1.245
(activate the PPP daemon at 230400, using the KeySpan's #1 serial port, don't use modem control lines, persistent connection, don't dump out if the peer isn't there, ditto, add to ARP table so other networked machines can see it, Ip address of the iMac:Ip address of the Powerbook)
6. Pressed "connect" on FreePPP.
Would you believe it worked right out of the box?
I am now cruising the internet, telnetting, FTPing, and other wonderful things on the Powerbook Duo 280, courtesy my own private non-dial-up dial-up ISP. The best part: no docks or additional cables to buy. Sure, it's not as fast as ethernet. But that's an opportunity cost I'm willing to pay for close to zero financial investment. And it's a "universal" solution, in that I can get any platform that supports PPP and TCP/IP online this way. Anyone care to surf the web using Lynx on my Amiga 1000?
Cheers! ;D
That would be fine for the short term, and sending files to and fro via Zmodem sure brought back memories. But I wanted something a little more elegant. OS X doesn't support AppleShare over AppleTalk on LocalTalk, so that was out. And what was I to do about internet access?
Then it hit me -- I have a UNIX based machine sitting in front of me. One that surely has a PPP daemon. I could configure my iMac as modem-less dial-up ISP, and then use FreePPP/OtTCP on the Powerbook to access the 'net. Furthermore, OS X's FTP server would serve as a much nicer file transfer scenario than ZTerm.
So, in a nutshell, I:
1. Mated the Powerbook and iMac using the KeySpan adaptor and serial cable.
2. Used ZTerm (iMac) and Microsoft Works Communications (Powerbook) to transfer over FreePPP and iCab. (Had this Powerbook not had OS 8 which includes a TCP/IP stack, I would have used MacTCP.)
3. Configured TCP/IP with an IP address local to my network (in this case, 192.168.1.245). Used OpenDNS IP addresses for the DNS.
4. Configured FreePPP to use the Serial/Printer port, in lieu of the Powerbook's modem. Left the phone number field empty. Set the baudrate to max (230400).
5. Run the following with root privileges on the iMac:
sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1
(tell the Kernel we want to forward IP packets)
pppd 230400 tty.KeySerial1 local persist passive maxfail 0 proxyarp 192.168.1.102:192.168.1.245
(activate the PPP daemon at 230400, using the KeySpan's #1 serial port, don't use modem control lines, persistent connection, don't dump out if the peer isn't there, ditto, add to ARP table so other networked machines can see it, Ip address of the iMac:Ip address of the Powerbook)
6. Pressed "connect" on FreePPP.
Would you believe it worked right out of the box?
I am now cruising the internet, telnetting, FTPing, and other wonderful things on the Powerbook Duo 280, courtesy my own private non-dial-up dial-up ISP. The best part: no docks or additional cables to buy. Sure, it's not as fast as ethernet. But that's an opportunity cost I'm willing to pay for close to zero financial investment. And it's a "universal" solution, in that I can get any platform that supports PPP and TCP/IP online this way. Anyone care to surf the web using Lynx on my Amiga 1000?
Cheers! ;D
Hold on a second, fellas! I don't think this should have been moved to the Powerbooks forum. Did you read it? This solution works with any old world Mac that has a serial port. The only thing Powerbookie about it is my personal experience. I'd hope this solution would be available to all users of 68k Macs!
Pretty slick!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't specify the IP addresses at the end of the pppd command wouldn't you, in theory, be able to use phonenet connectors and use this technique with multiple vintage macs simultaneously?
If I understand this correctly "192.168.1.102:192.168.1.245" statement limits you to a 1:1 relationship. However, if this is not specified the iMac (in this case) should obtain the address that you manually entered into the peer (Duo).
It's a theory anyway... I could be wrong, but it wouldn't hurt to try.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't specify the IP addresses at the end of the pppd command wouldn't you, in theory, be able to use phonenet connectors and use this technique with multiple vintage macs simultaneously?
If I understand this correctly "192.168.1.102:192.168.1.245" statement limits you to a 1:1 relationship. However, if this is not specified the iMac (in this case) should obtain the address that you manually entered into the peer (Duo).
It's a theory anyway... I could be wrong, but it wouldn't hurt to try.
] ]'>I'm not familiar with how Phonenet works, so I don't know. My gut says it wouldn't work because we'd need mutple PPP daemons running, and only one daemon can run on a given serial port at any time -- where the real "1 to 1" relationship begins. But, hey, I almost wrote off my project thinking Apple had crippled pppd in OS X. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! If you try it, do let us know!
Congrats on getting the Duo on the net. That is a rather clever solution.
Perhaps it isn't as fast as ethernet, but it could still be quite fast.
Back when I first got DSL (and before hardware routers were affordable), I ran IPNetRouter on my Quadra 840av to share the DSL between several Macs and a PC. Most of the computers were on ethernet, but my Powerbook Duo 280c was on LocalTalk. The Quadra must have been able to pump up the serial port speed past what was normal for the Duo, because the Duo could download files via FTP at around 80KB/sec. That is equal to 640kbps, which is much faster than the typical 130kbps it should have been getting, and pretty close to the 768kbps DSL I had.
For comparison, the Centris 650 Macs that I had in my computer lab in college would get between 80-100KB/sec download rates over ethernet. Any way you look at it, it will be leaps and bounds better than dial-up.
I am not sure what your USB-to-Serial adapter is capable of, but the one I have here at work handles rates up to 230kbps.
From the way I understand it, you are using direct serial communication between the Powerbook and iMac. That is where the 1-to-1 ratio lies. If it was doing LocalTalk (MacIP for TCP/IP networking), then you could have approx. 250 computers daisychained to your iMac. AFAIK, serial communications are limited to 2 devices though.
Perhaps it isn't as fast as ethernet, but it could still be quite fast.
Back when I first got DSL (and before hardware routers were affordable), I ran IPNetRouter on my Quadra 840av to share the DSL between several Macs and a PC. Most of the computers were on ethernet, but my Powerbook Duo 280c was on LocalTalk. The Quadra must have been able to pump up the serial port speed past what was normal for the Duo, because the Duo could download files via FTP at around 80KB/sec. That is equal to 640kbps, which is much faster than the typical 130kbps it should have been getting, and pretty close to the 768kbps DSL I had.
For comparison, the Centris 650 Macs that I had in my computer lab in college would get between 80-100KB/sec download rates over ethernet. Any way you look at it, it will be leaps and bounds better than dial-up.
I am not sure what your USB-to-Serial adapter is capable of, but the one I have here at work handles rates up to 230kbps.
From the way I understand it, you are using direct serial communication between the Powerbook and iMac. That is where the 1-to-1 ratio lies. If it was doing LocalTalk (MacIP for TCP/IP networking), then you could have approx. 250 computers daisychained to your iMac. AFAIK, serial communications are limited to 2 devices though.
Yeah, you guys are probably right... It was a thought anyway.
By the way, which serial adapter are you using? The twin adapter? PDA adapter? I'm not sure if it would make a difference or not (other than the cables you would need). I have the PDA serial adapter. I'll have to give this a try when I get a few mins.
By the way, which serial adapter are you using? The twin adapter? PDA adapter? I'm not sure if it would make a difference or not (other than the cables you would need). I have the PDA serial adapter. I'll have to give this a try when I get a few mins.
According to the manual, the data rate on the USA-28x maxes out at 1Mbit/s. FreePPP's modems configuration panel tops the data rate at 230kbps (which is interesting, as Low End Mac's entry for the Duo claims the limit is 56kbps).
My next goal is to get the Duo into the wireless age with a pair of RS-422 to Bluetooth transceivers. (At $199/unit, maybe not soon...) ;D
I've been trying a similar thing with my PowerBook 2300c Duo with Mac OS 7.6.1. I've got it hooked up to my MacBook Pro 17" with a Keyspan USA-28 serial adaptor. FreePPP says 'Establishing Conncetion' and eventually says 'Link Dead'. Any ideas on this one?
I was wondering - what are your FreePPP settings? Modem? Speed? Flow Control? What did you do for a Connection Script?
Thanks!
I was wondering - what are your FreePPP settings? Modem? Speed? Flow Control? What did you do for a Connection Script?
Thanks!
I've only done a direct serial connection with a terminal program like Z-Term or the Communications mode of ClarisWorks. In that situation, you'd need to select Null Modem Cable from the list of modems.
If you are using PPP, then you would also have to select Null Modem Cable. The "server" computer would have to have some software running to accept the connection and assign the client an IP address. I'm not sure how that would be done.
If you are using PPP, then you would also have to select Null Modem Cable. The "server" computer would have to have some software running to accept the connection and assign the client an IP address. I'm not sure how that would be done.
I was referring to the first post made here since this fellow managed to his working with the same equipment as me. ZTerm and ClarisWorks Communication works but is very very slow so using FreePPP would allow me to use FTP as I can setup an FTP server on OS X and access it using Fetch on the Duo. I followed his instructions but it doesn't actually connect 
pppd on OS X is supposed to provide the IP address and such if it connects.
pppd on OS X is supposed to provide the IP address and such if it connects.Via the PSTN yes. One is the server and waits for connections, the other is the client who dials and connects.
I would doubt you can just wire two modems back to back and expect them to work, they normally expect ring tone before dialling out.
No, the clue is in the name, PPP stands for Point to Point Protocol.
I actully am connecting My iMac G3 to my POwerBoook 180c with a plain phone cable, I just put these commands on both ends: ATX3&C0 then one one I put: ATA and on the other I put: ATD . I do have xubuntu 7.04 on my iMac, I am wondering if I can do the PPPD with the modems. Another thing I am wondering about is directly hooking my modem attached to my PowerBook 180c, and printing to a fax machine. I have the modem installed, and I can fax all documents to a fax machine, is there any way to fax directly?
I want to try this ingenious solution as soon as possible. But I'm a bit ignorant in many things UNIX. My question is: when I want to stop the connection and the IP forwarding, I just type:
sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=0
or is it more complicated than that?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Rick
Thanks! I will have a go at this!
How would I know if I have the stack installed? Does netatalk have this?
I would need help figuring out what I need in the pppd command. This is what I have that can probably help: Connecting with the internal modem on the iMac G3, internet is connected through the Ethernet port (IP is 192.168.0.174), speed is 38400 baud. Once I get this working I will post a tutorial somewhere.
EDIT: Well I got ARA 3.1... It will only work with 8.1 or higher. I cannot find ARA 3.0, only updaters. I can't seem to find it on the kdx server as well (It might be there, I just can't find anything!). If I just had a Mac with a PCI or Comm slot that I could shove an ethernet card and localtalk bridge onto...
Okay, I searched for information about this and I came up with this:
It appears that netatalk is needed.
UPDATE: I probably know why I can't get it connected, Linux might not have the modem init string... Maybe, but does anyone know the modem in the iMac G3 350 MHz and where to configure the modem string or add it in the command?
In order for pppd to route AF_APPLETALK packets it *may* need the assistence of netatalk, we're not sure.
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1378.html
Slightly OT but I just had a thought.
Let's say you have a Duo 2300 motherboard, and use a SCSI internal disk, leaving the IDE header free. (Yes, it's been shown that you can use both at the same time). Then attach a 2.5" IDE to CF adapter.
Let's say also that you can find a Compact Flash format WiFI card that has the same chipset as a PCMCIA WiFI card that's known to be usable under OS 9.x and/or earlier (like the Proxim/Lucent/Avaya Orinoco).
Trick the installer to put the appropriate drivers on the Duo's hard drive. (ie using SCSI Disk Mode from a 1400 or other Powerbook with a PCMCIA slot)
Does it seem even remotely possible that the CF card would be recognised?
Let's say you have a Duo 2300 motherboard, and use a SCSI internal disk, leaving the IDE header free. (Yes, it's been shown that you can use both at the same time). Then attach a 2.5" IDE to CF adapter.
Let's say also that you can find a Compact Flash format WiFI card that has the same chipset as a PCMCIA WiFI card that's known to be usable under OS 9.x and/or earlier (like the Proxim/Lucent/Avaya Orinoco).
Trick the installer to put the appropriate drivers on the Duo's hard drive. (ie using SCSI Disk Mode from a 1400 or other Powerbook with a PCMCIA slot)
Does it seem even remotely possible that the CF card would be recognised?
Pardon the thread necromancy, but is there any compelling reason that would prevent jcassara's original solution from working over a wireless serial adapter? For example, the following unit, to a Bluetooth-equipped Mac:
Bluetooth SMD Module - Roving Networks
Bluetooth SMD Module - Roving Networks
Why not? The unit above is designed for industrial and embedded applications. It appears to the host as a standard serial connection. As far as the OS is concerned, there is no "Bluetooth", just a serial port that goes ... somewhere. jcassara's ppp setup takes care of the rest - provided a serial tty can be opened on the receiving Bluetooth Mac.
At least that's how I read it.
At least that's how I read it.
Hey everyone, I've been trying to follow along with this thread with no luck
I'm trying to hook up my PowerBook 180c to an intel Mac-Mini with 10.6 to no avail... I have a USB-to-Serial adapter that is recognized by the system, but I'm not sure what to do in order to connect the two.
The only network-related programs I have available on the PB is the standard MacTCP and TCP/IP control panels. I have no way of transferring any files to the PB unless I get this working.
Any ideas?
Thanks
I'm trying to hook up my PowerBook 180c to an intel Mac-Mini with 10.6 to no avail... I have a USB-to-Serial adapter that is recognized by the system, but I'm not sure what to do in order to connect the two.
The only network-related programs I have available on the PB is the standard MacTCP and TCP/IP control panels. I have no way of transferring any files to the PB unless I get this working.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Do you have a terminal program of some sort (MacTerminal, Microphone, ZTerm, anything that uses the Apple communications tool box) for the PB? You need to get MacPPP on your PB if you want TCP/IP access, or a terminal program if you just want to transfer files without using disks.Hey everyone, I've been trying to follow along with this thread with no luck
The only network-related programs I have available on the PB is the standard MacTCP and TCP/IP control panels. I have no way of transferring any files to the PB unless I get this working.
Any ideas?
Thanks
I have both ZTerm, MacPPP and FreePPP on my PB, and I've been trying to follow the steps on the first post as closely as possible.
The only problem I'm having really is with step 3.. I'm kind of a noob when it comes to networking so I'm not sure how to setup the DNS.
Actually, the very original PCMCIA memory cards were descended from micro-card ATA memory cards with the pins and form factor that later became PCMCIA. When PCMCIA became a standard (and later became "PC Card", which evolved into "CardBus",) they kept the old ATA compatibility.
And Compact Flash cards are just reduced-size PCMCIA flash cards. And thus, retain 100% ATA compatibility.
That's why a Compact Flash-to-IDE converter is just a simple wire converter, with no active controller chip.
Don't worry about the DNS for now. Typically, the ppp server on Mac OS X will forward the DNS requests for you. I have used a similar setup before and have never had to specify a dns server in either the MacTCP control panel or in the /etc/ppp/options file on Mac OS X.
Here is a post that will give you more specifics on getting the terminal connection running. Once you do that, it is easy to get ppp running using the terminal in FreePPP or MacPPP.
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11335&start=25#p117254
Using that way you won't have to manually type in the long pppd command every time you want to log in.
--Eric
If you lack a serial/usb device, get one from dx.com for $4, this one is quite good:
http://dx.com/p/usb-to-rs232-dongle-with-extension-cable-5859
Your question wasn't stupid. It probably can be done, but requires more research.
http://dx.com/p/usb-to-rs232-dongle-with-extension-cable-5859
Your question wasn't stupid. It probably can be done, but requires more research.
This one is old, but i guess it fell through the cracks. 8-o
That would just stop IP forwarding. The OSX kernel can either transport packets from one network to another, say, from your 68kmac-OSX-serial-network to your OSX-ISP-network, or not. That is all. The 68kmac-OSX-network still runs, as long as the serial connection is established. Wich means, you can still accesss a FTP server on your OSX machine, but not on the internet. To stop the serial connection, kill the ppp daemon or client.
Code:
My question is: when I want to stop the connection and the IP forwarding, I just type:
sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=0
or is it more complicated than that?Just kind of stumbled on this thread...the modem-to-modem connection is definitely possible. There are two things you need to fix to enable this:
First is line power -- all telephone lines provide a low amperage power to communicate/power phones/etc.
this page describes the "line simulator" that is required to make this work. http://www.jagshouse.com/modem.html
Second part is the modems themselves. There are several lines between a modem and serial line that need to be possibly manipulated. An example I can think of is the following:
I had a laptop with a modem (running linux) that connected to the 56k modem on my dreamcast. There was a web browser disk that would allow you to dial up to a ISP and connect to it, and allow you to browse the web. The first part is the easiest --- the physical part. Hook em up together. Done.
The second part is telling the OS on the "server" side that whenever the modem answers, it needs to provide IP services (PPP). Typically, in windows, this is provided via DUN listening on a serial port.
Now, the last part is the oddest part and the one I dont 100% remember: Ordinarily, modems are connected via telephone switching stations, which take one active call, route it to where it needs to go, prefixing that "connection" with a telephone ring. The idea is to simulate that. You'd dial any number, setup PPP/DUN, and to connect the call, you'd connect the lines together. The modem would detect the carrier and the ringing noise on the line, put the modem off the hook (answering the call) and there ya go. You *may* have to configure the dialing end to "ignore dial tone before dialing" because there wont be a dial tone. But once the modem dials the number, it'll send out carriers and the "server" modem will be listening.
First is line power -- all telephone lines provide a low amperage power to communicate/power phones/etc.
this page describes the "line simulator" that is required to make this work. http://www.jagshouse.com/modem.html
Second part is the modems themselves. There are several lines between a modem and serial line that need to be possibly manipulated. An example I can think of is the following:
I had a laptop with a modem (running linux) that connected to the 56k modem on my dreamcast. There was a web browser disk that would allow you to dial up to a ISP and connect to it, and allow you to browse the web. The first part is the easiest --- the physical part. Hook em up together. Done.
The second part is telling the OS on the "server" side that whenever the modem answers, it needs to provide IP services (PPP). Typically, in windows, this is provided via DUN listening on a serial port.
Now, the last part is the oddest part and the one I dont 100% remember: Ordinarily, modems are connected via telephone switching stations, which take one active call, route it to where it needs to go, prefixing that "connection" with a telephone ring. The idea is to simulate that. You'd dial any number, setup PPP/DUN, and to connect the call, you'd connect the lines together. The modem would detect the carrier and the ringing noise on the line, put the modem off the hook (answering the call) and there ya go. You *may* have to configure the dialing end to "ignore dial tone before dialing" because there wont be a dial tone. But once the modem dials the number, it'll send out carriers and the "server" modem will be listening.
I have managed to make this technique work in OS X*.
*: But only OS X 10.4 (haven't tested lower). In 10.5, I'm still in the process of working on figuring out how to revise the command so it works correctly. For 10.4 and the LCII with a USB FTDI RS232 adapter, I type:
In 10.5, running this command in a separate Terminal window is a good idea:
During a session of monitoring the output, I get some issues in 10.5 which make it not work. I don't have 10.6 or higher so I can't speak for those.
I use MacPPP 2.0.1 in System 6 and 7.0.1. System 7.0 and 7.1 have a most abhorable bug where the MacPPP INIT can't start because of "insufficient memory". I tried 2.1.1SD (can't find 2.0.1cm4, but probably won't fix it) and 2.2.0a and all had the same exact problem. Basically this is the equivalent of shipping a car to consumers with no windows on it.
The proper command for Linux is also something I'm working on. The only real digest worthwhile is some pages which are over a decade old and pertain to kernel 2.0 and 2.2.
)
*: But only OS X 10.4 (haven't tested lower). In 10.5, I'm still in the process of working on figuring out how to revise the command so it works correctly. For 10.4 and the LCII with a USB FTDI RS232 adapter, I type:
Code:
sudo /usr/sbin/pppd 38400 tty.usbserial-A601FT6I local persist passive maxfail 0 proxyarp 192.168.1.100:192.168.1.125
Code:
tail -f /var/log/system.logI use MacPPP 2.0.1 in System 6 and 7.0.1. System 7.0 and 7.1 have a most abhorable bug where the MacPPP INIT can't start because of "insufficient memory". I tried 2.1.1SD (can't find 2.0.1cm4, but probably won't fix it) and 2.2.0a and all had the same exact problem. Basically this is the equivalent of shipping a car to consumers with no windows on it.
The proper command for Linux is also something I'm working on. The only real digest worthwhile is some pages which are over a decade old and pertain to kernel 2.0 and 2.2.
)