Another "help-me-build-a-PC" thread. (I really need your help, though.)

www.pricewatch.com

Cheapest prices for everything.

You're welcome, prick.

- Ca$h

FiringSquad. Even if you don't use the parts they recommend, it will help you understand what parts you need and how to put it all together.

Asus motherboard
ATX case with two or three 5.25" drive bays (for CDRW and DVD-rom or DVD-rw)

most motherboards will have sound built in.

IDE cables for the drives, although most drives come with a cable.

www.newegg.com


incredible service, great selection. perhaps not the cheapest prices around, but you can trust them with every order, and they get it to you quick.

Most drives will *not* come with a cable if you're buying them online, the low priced drives are bare and don't come with anything but the drive. Most motherboards come with one IDE cable.

I buy most of my hardware from mwave.com, I haven't had a bad experience yet and i've bought at least 3 computers from them. newegg.com has good prices as well.



I hate to sound pessimistic, but if you've never built a PC before, it might be a better choice to buy a cheap dell and format the drive/install a clean copy of windows instead. You'll have a warranty and you won't have to deal with breaking the machine as you're putting it together. not that it's hard, some people need a little practice to get it right, especially the windows bit.

Oh come on dude, it's not like it's hard. I talked a complete newbie through it on the phone the other day. We're talking newbie so new he didn't know what a gigabyte is. But now he has a perfectly functioning system which he made himself.

I'll second Newegg. Their service is great and the prices are still cheaper, in most cases, than a place like Frys.

As for cables and stuff, as long as you don't buy the motherboard OEM you'll get all the cables you need. Most motherboards now come with onboad LAN and sound, so unless you're looking for something like an Audigy you won't need to buy a soundcard.

It's easier than putting together a lego model, but it's much less forgiving if you DO screw up. I don't know if MindFad has enough money to finance any screwups should he have them.
I definitely don't question MindFad's ability to *use* a computer, I love his icons. But some people weren't meant to touch hardware and break anything they touch,(once again, not to say that mindfad is among these people) and if he's a poor college student he might not want to take the gamble. Especially mac users, who aren't used to futzing around with hardware and BIOS settings to get things working nicely. All it takes is yanking out a PCI card while the power supply is connected to the wall to fry the motherboard. (99/100 times things will be fine, but some people just have all the luck and will break it all the time)

MindFad...

If you can, try to put two HDs into the system - it'll be more flexible.

Don't go thinking you'll get away with a CD-RW for backups - you'll never be regular enough with one of those. Make it a priority to pop a ZIP drive in there.

Sorry.. No idea what's good and bad in the PC hardware field these days.

Yeah. Know what you're saying but we're only really talking "don't touch the chips" and "don't put it somewhere it doesn't obviously fit", aren't we?

Having said that, my last PC purchase I couldn't be bothered to make my own so I just bought an IBM. So there is something in what you're saying. Depends on whether Mindfad wants the learning experience I guess.

Buy from NewEgg. They're real good. And do it yourself. You won't screw it up unless your a complete idiot. And you're not. Just make sure everything you buy is the right stuff. The right RAM, the right processor, and a beefy enough power supply. You can't screw up a CD or Hard Drive.

Oh, and don't forget the floppy. Yea, you still need one with a PC, and it's only $8.

If you're gonna have a cheap PC it doesn't have to look ugly.


(not all motherboards will fit in this small case. Not even the one I mention later. oops. Only 'micro-ATX' form factor and some smaller [mini-ITX] motherboards fit this case)

$32 + $15/shipping

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=11-161-005

PICTURES


Add a black keyboard, mouse, and flatpanel LCD ($230 for 15") - and you're all set.

Here's what I would buy in order to get a great performing system for the least cash possible. It'll be AthlonXP-based because that way it costs $90 to get the same performance as a $175 Pentium4. Motherboard prices are similar for AMD and Intel platforms.

If you fancy Intel hardware, I would suggest a name brand motherboard (Asus, Abit, MSI, ECS) using the most current chipset available, and for best value, a 533MHz FSB Pentium4 (a 2.53 or 2.66 "Northwood" core costs about $175). Just make sure the motherboard's chipset supports 800MHz FSB Pentium4 and you will be able to upgrade the CPU later. The same motherboard will support any 478pin Intel CPU from a 1.9GHz Celeron (avoid Celerons. they are living proof that megahertz truly don't matter. I know, I'm using one) all the way up to a 3+GHz Hyperthread Pentium4.

edit: somebody smack me. Ignore what I said about the 533FSB (2.53 & 2.66) Pentium4 being the best value. Obviously, for the same $175 I'd be pimpin' the 800MHz FSB 2.6GHz Hyperthread P4. doh. This is a tremendously compelling reason to opt for the Intel P4 platform over the AMD XP. While I'm sure AMD offers something just as potent as a 800MHz HT Pentium4 - it won't be an incredible value (like it used to be) and it won't be anything near as cool as having 2 CPUs showing in your task manager window (for multiprocessor support you need WinXP Pro, not the Home edition. Win2000, NT and linux are ok, too, but don't quote me on that). Aw, hell. Just get a HT P4 instead of an AthlonXP. I would. In fact, I think I'm about to order me a 2.6 HT. drool. Whatever you do, don't spend $400 for the 3.2 HT. In six months it probably won't be worth 75 bucks. Instead, spend $175 on the 2.6 HT...then wait six months and upgrade it to a $175 3.8 HT, or whatever. In the meantime, it looks like the 2.6 will reliably run at over 3GHz. Now that's good value. The AthlonXP is no slouch, don't misunderstand me. I love 'em to death. It's the hands-down CPU of choice for low and mid range PCs. More performance for half the price. But when you move to the highest-speed CPUs, AMD's value is no longer as great. Yeah, the performance of the Athlon is right there alongside the fastest from Intel, but so is the price, unfortunately. By the way, check out the prices of Athlon64 motherboards and CPUs. Dirt cheap, huh? Affordable, even. The Athlon64 ain't competing with the expensive Itanium2, don't forget. Heck, I'm not sure what it's competing against. Nothing I can see. 'cept maybe the PPC970

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=19-116-159

You could step down from a 333MHz FSB Barton core AthlonXP, to one with 266MHz FSB - but you won't save much money...maybe $25. So don't go there.

Here's what I would put inside that rather tasteful-looking black case. and I would get it all from Newegg.com. Free shipping on all the items listed:

A decent power supply. ANTEC SMART POWER 330W

Reviews proclaim its silence and clean power. $55

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=17-103-906

A good quality BLACK optical drive

Lite On Black 48x24x48x16 CDROM/CDRW/DVD Combo Drive LTC-48161H

$54

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=27-106-196


A fast hard drive..

WESTERN DIGITAL "SPECIAL EDITION" 80GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE

$77.50

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=22-144-122


Half a gig of RAM.

KingMax DDR memory 256MB PC3200

$84 (2 x $42) The nForce2 chipset can do cool tricks when you use a pair of DIMMs.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=20-156-002


A feature-packed motherboard. You can spend more and get gigabit ethernet, onboard SATA, onboard VGA, Firewire, etc. This one only has 6 channel audio and 10/100 LAN. SATA offers no real improvement and gigabit networks are rare. Suck up and spend the $30 later for a PCI-based solution if it becomes necessary. There are 5 PCI slots for expansion.

ASUS Model# A7N8X-X Retail

$73

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=13-131-468

And lastly, a CPU

AMD ATHLON XP 2500+ "Barton" 333 FSB

$90 incl heatsink/fan

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=19-103-379



I think that'll be everything you need except a video card and an operating system. All the cables and screws should be included. Video cards vary widely in price. Anywhere from $40 to $499. Pick the one that's right for the job. Choose a name brand to avoid future problems arising from lack of (or infrequent) driver updates.

Total cost of the items mentioned above comes to $465.48

The only shipping cost was $15 for the case. So you hafta add that to the $465.48

California and New Jersey residents must pay sales tax.

A really good video card can be had for about $150.

With a rig like that, nobody would laugh at you.

PS, note 3yr warranty on the WD "Special Edition" hard drives. That's WAY better than the 1yr warranty offered by everyone else. Also note the CPU is "retail", not OEM. This means it comes with a longer warranty (3yr, I think) and heatsink/fan assembly.

PPS, Newegg uses FedEx shipping and it gets to you in 2 days, 3 at most.

PPPS, OEM means you get the product in a white unlabeled box - and almost always WITHOUT cables, manuals, or driver CD. Except for CPUs, warranties for OEM products are typically the same as retail, however. "Retail" hardware is shipped in colorful "retail" packaging and includes all manuals, cables, and driver CDs - along with bonus software, in most cases.

edit yet again:

If your budget allows, go ahead and spend the extra $50-$75 for a motherboard with every possible onboard feature. Certain hardware performs better when integrated on the motherboard. Mass storage controllers (IDE, RAID, SATA, SCSI) and gigabit ethernet can benefit from NOT having to reside on the PCI bus if the chipset can directly support the hardware via the (much faster) system bus. Even if there's no performance benefit in having onboard (integrated) hardware, there's certainly a cost benefit. That $30 PCI SATA card uses a $9 controller chip, a printed circuit board, and hardware to integrate it with the PCI bus. The same SATA capability can be added to a motherboard for just the cost of the $9 chip. So load up on integrated features if you think you might need 'em later.

If you have an even bigger budget, buy a second hard drive and connect the pair to a integrated RAID 0 controller. That's a very popular feature found on high-end motherboards. Most motherboards with onboard SATA will include an 'old fashioned' PATA interface, too. No need for SATA hard drives. Unless you want them. Also, most motherboards that have SATA will offer some sort of RAID features. Striping, at least. "Promise" controller chips are extremely common and offer these cool, but not often used features.

^^^ LISTEN TO HIM. I would of posted the same information.

Keep an eye on FatWallet

Usually there are great combo deals that you can buy or cheap video cards from obscure dealers, etc.

Just search, theres always a deal for something.

I'll throw in another recommendation for NewEgg. Also, to start you off, go to ArsTechnica to do some research into what components are good and how to put it all together.

Here are some recommendations I can offer as I've built a PC once as well:

AMD processors are better than Intel's processors price-wise. There's a nice explanation at Ars Technica.

Compare those prices to Intel's. It'll be a minimum of $116 for a Pentium 4, and that's assuming you go with the low end 1.8 GHz model. Faster ones are quite a bit more expensive. Their clock speed may be higher than an AMD, but we know as Mac users that clock speed isn't everything!

IDE cables are included with the motherboard. You can go with a cheap motherboard if you want, but the motherboard is important. A lot of PC manufacturers save most of their money by going with the cheapest, worst motherboard available. There are various features you may want - built in ethernet, onboard video (if you won't be doing gaming, that is), USB 2.0, good integrated sound, AGP 4x vs. 8x, overclocking ability, and so on.

It's funny... I love speccing out PCs and looking for all the best components to meet a certain price while still maintaining quality and style. But I don't actually like PCs. They're no fun to use, just to make. So good luck making yours, I think it'll be a positive experience. I had never built a PC before myself and it wasn't too hard.

One more thing....


If you plan to run Linux - make sure the hardware you buy has Linux drivers available. Stick with popular widely-used brands and you'll be OK.

It's amazing what's supported in Linux...and it's even more amazing when you find out what isn't.

As a rule of thumb, whatever hardware really kicked ass last year will enjoy current (and thorough) Linux support today.


In my "suggested system" in the post above I placed 'upgradeability' at the top of the list, then 'cost', and finally 'performance'.

'Upgradeability' is a crapshoot, really. The next Athlon may not even fit the ZIF socket your 'Barton' does. Same is true of Intel's Pentium4. Still, there's room to upgrade within the current offerings unless you start with the fastest available CPU.

I like Shuttle cases, take a look at these.

SN85G4
SK41G
SS40G

I am considering building a PC for encoding, I started a thread here http://forums.macnn.com/showthread....hreadid=187812. I have the specs I am considering http://homepage.mac.com/comp.pdf. Any comments on specs on help on my thread would be greatly appreciated.

When I was looking in to this stuff a while ago, a friend of mine recommended Googlegear (now ZipZoomFly).

I can't honestly vouch for them myself beyond saying I knew this guy IRL, and I trust his judgment.

BlackGriffen

That was going to be my first suggestions as well, but - Ca$h, who lit the fuse on your tampon?? I didn't find anything offensive about MiniFad's post.

I ordered a few things through Google Gear when I put together my PC, and would recommend them. Good communication, fast shipping, good packaging and no other complaints!

NewEgg is your best friend, btw.

He deleted my posts at the BBQ because he likes masturbating to gamecube gaymes. Basically, he pissed me off.

- Ca$h

Oh poor baby.

Maybe people wouldn't treat you like that if you didn't act like a complete ****tard.

There's absolutely no benefit to building your own PC if your budget is under $500. It's difficult to compete with $399 bargain-basement Dells in the build-it-yourself department. Sure, you can build a complete PC for under $400, but it'll suck...much like the $400 Dell, and worse because you'll be shelling out an extra $100 for the OS that was included with the price of the Dell.

You can download Redhat for free. Try that for about a week and you'll be begging for somebody to take your $169 and give you WindowsXP Pro.

A blue screen of death on your Dell is nothing to get alarmed about.

A blue screen of death on your hand-assembled bleeding-edge gaming PC is a reason to hunt down and kill the geek at nVidia whose hack-ass ******** Detonator driver is referenced in the BSOD text. It's a personal thing. Nobody is ever allowed to harm your home-built PC. Or get near it. To install Bonzi Buddy on somebody's home-built machine is to invite death. No. To welcome death with open arms. It's a "pride in ownership" thing. Like owning a Harley. or something. I dunno.

The real beauty of building your own PC lies in the fact that you can get high-quality hardware for less than the cost of pre-assembled PCs. Trust me, you can't get cheap parts as cheap as Dell gets them. You want 1, Dell wants 435,500 of them. Guess who pays less for that part.

If you want the very best PC, you almost HAVE TO build it yourself. There are very few retailers that offer fully-assembled truly high-end machines. None of the top names like HP, Dell, or IBM have desktop machines that can compete with a home-built PC assembled with leading-edge hardware. Six months before you see it on a Dell, you'll see it available on the hobbyist retail market. Hell, I've had USB2, gigE, Firewire, and SATA since this time last year. All courtesy of a $65 refurb ASUS P4 motherboard from Newegg.

But anyways. I could write a book on building PCs. and fixing them. and fixing my friend's and co-workers and family's machines. and all their acquaintances machines, naturally. It's one of those things that's simple as hell to do - but looks frighteningly difficult to the uninitiated. Let's put it this way, I know plenty of rather ordinary 13 year olds that can spec-out and build a computer to fit any need. Gaming has done wonders for the build-it-yourself PC hardware market. All you need is a bunch of hormone-driven teenagers competing with one-another over FPS benchmarks and non-artifact antialiasing. All the hardware in PCs is interchangeable, upgradeable, and backward-compatible. Just pick a platform (Intel, AMD, Via), pick a form factor (ATX, micro-ATX, etc), and select which parts you need. The choice of CPU and RAM will be dictated by the requirements of the motherboard. The hard drive, video, audio, LAN, optical drive, etc aren't platform-specific (nor form-factor specific, generally).

I know this kid who built his own peecee for the sole purpose of playing Soldier of Fortune. He completely stripped Windows down to nothing but TCP/IP, openGL, and kernel32. Just kidding, but seriously, nothing was functional. The desktop didn't redraw itself without a manual refresh. Not even the taskbar clock updated.

I don't know jack about online first-person-shooter games, other than how to kick your ass, I mean. But this kid knew every trick and took every advantage. He showed me the effects of his custom-made "autoexec" file. To hell with textures and lightmaps and realism! Those things are detrimental to framerates and distracting to gameplay. All I saw were basic skeletal outlines of buildings and terrain and soon-to-be victims of this kid's gaming efficiency. The muzzle flash from his weapon was minimized with a hack to "autoexec" - whatever that is - in order to maintain his stealth. While he claimed it's niether fun nor sporting, he showed me the result of "Aimbot". Just like the Marines, you can simultaneously engage dozens of independent targets with pinpoint accuracy. Your rate of kill is bottlenecked only by your ability to click the right mouse button. No. Wait. It's got an automatic-fire mode. Targets are engaged as soon as they appear in the field of view. No need to click anything.

Until then, I'd never seen a custom-built application-specific computer outside of NASA.

What I'd like to know, is how can you possibly build one INCORRECTLY. I mean, the parts only fit together one way. IDE cables go into IDE sockets, the ram goes into the ram sockets, etc etc etc etc. I don't really see how you could possibly **** it up. Unless of course you were a fatass who did nothing but play gamecube all day... then I could see how it might be challenging.

- Ca$h

^^

exactly.

Ah, assumptions fly when one is silent, especially when your body is large and you play purple video game consoles for a living. LolOlolOloL

Anyhow, thanks a ton for all of the info, guys, even from the child-brained douche.

I found this to be what I thought was a good deal: http://www.bzboyz.com/store/product318.html What I *thought* to be a good deal. Athlon XP 2800+ and what looks to be a decent mobo all around (plenty of PCI. expansion, etc. I would need).

For cases, my friend already fell in love with and bought this: http://www.xpcases.com/shop/item.asp?CatID=&Sku=439 Would that mobo even fit that? I didn't see anything really intuitively telling about sizes. Maybe I missed something.

As for putting everything together, that is the easy part. I just wasn't sure where to get everything for the best prices, and about motherboard sizes. For example, that mobo right there says it is an ATX form factor�so does that mean it will fit any case that supports ATX, or are there different sizes to ATX? I assume, because I know there are very tall cases and smaller ones.

Also, it will be running Windows. His will be for gaming, mine will be for 3-D schoolwork (3DSM, maybe Maya) and gaming.

Thanks again, guys! (Spliff is the man.)

Nice case.

I saw the same one at Newegg while I was browsing them earlier. Seems like they had several colors - and it seems like the price was less. Don't feel like looking for it again to tell you the truth. There are several hundred different cases at newegg. Browse all cases, then sort by price. Start with the $50 models and then work backward. I never looked at any cases over fifty bucks - and I know I saw that same case.

Yep. Any ATX motherboard should fit into any ATX case. When you see a prefix added to 'ATX' - 'micro-ATX', for example, it's a different size than the plain ol' 'ATX'. A small micro-ATX case won't hold a big ATX motherboard, but a big ATX case will hold a small micro-ATX motherboard.

ATX-size cases are by far the most common, because ATX-size motherboards are by far the most common. They come in many different varieties; Tower, Mid-Tower, Mini-Tower, desktop. The only difference in the tower models is the number of drive bays.

'micro-ATX' cases are typically half the dimensions of ATX cases. Usually there will be room for only one optical drive (sometimes mounted sideways to save width) and one hard drive.

I don't know what the initials 'ATX' stand for. Maybe somebody else does. I do know the whole PC world still revolves around standards based on a a decade-old IBM PC/AT.

The next generation of peecee hardware will be more compact in size. Something along the lines of 'mini-ITX' using a 6" x 6" motherboard. Like those Shuttle cases.

oh yeah. here's a nice power supply comparison. The lesson: Don't trust the advertised output rating of power supplies.

"THG took a close look at 13 power supplies rated higher than 400 Watts. The test showed that lines supplying the system with +3.3, +5 and +12 Volt lines generated, on average, 20 Watts less overall power than was promised by the product name or product branding."

http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/index.html

Love that case, dude, looks similar in design to the one I have up in my room. Hope all goes well for ya!

Any reason why you can't just use VPC?

On even a dual 1.42ghz g4, VPC is about as fast as my 75mhz laptop running windows 98 when it's power saving bug kicks in and it only runs at 33mhz.

Not to mention it screws up the entire computer too (makes it horribly laggy). I admit it's 99% of the time due to my computer's RAM being sucked up, but heck.

Even at it's fastest, VPC is about as fast as a P2 @ 450mhz. NOT fast. A 2500 athlon will make VPC look like a 486, not to mention VPC has no 3d capability.

VPC Win 95 + more RAM? Done the maths?

It's still not fast enough to do maya rendering.. and macs have a bad weakness at any kind of 3d rendering: Some CELERONS will beat dual g5s at it I imagine.

And even if not, you can get more performance out of a machine for half the cost. "SWEET" machines run $1200.

"ultimate" computers, complete with nice brushed aluminum case, dual opteron processors, and whatnot run $2000-2500.. closer to the range of the G5 but in SOME cases a LOT more powerful.

Not to mention that even the $1200 machine will have top end everything. Nice high quality motherboard, radeon 9800, solid athlon or p4 processor, superdrive, solid aluminum case, good power supply, good fans and even a few 'top end' PC motherboards have fan control systems similar to what macs have.

The ONLY disadvantage on the PC Side is you EITHER run windows or BSD/linux/unix. In essence, you can't enjoy wolfenstein at 500fps on the same machine that hosts an IRC server, decent webserver with many vhosts, and is running a KDE compile in the background at the same time... same machine, etc.

That's one of the few edges OS X has. Sadly, microsoft's only way of survival is to be proprietary.

Of course, I could sell my (worth $1100) g4 dual 800 right now, get a good athlon 2500-2700, nice case, some parts to retrofit my other PC to be a server (just a new powersupply and hard drive.. the suckers are noisy), and I'd have a much nicer setup.

But do I want it? Not really. I admit though, my g4 is extremely loud and I hate that part. It also lacks a radeon 9800, lacks SATA, lacks a faster superdrive, lacks a 533mhz or 800mhz bus, oh geez I can go on.

Point said. It'd cost me maybe $300 at most to do this 'switch' and get a more powerful machine. If I sold my g4 and got a G5, it'd cost about (to be fair the 1.8ghz g5 == 2500 athlon) $1400.

Same performance, just a little less elegant. Truth be told I'm afraid the mac lost in that case, but my mom won't let me sell my g4 anyway so I'll enjoy it it was, and still is, a totally awesome machine.

On the flipside, albeit my PC being annoyingly loud (louder then the already loud g4), it's a nice little machine fast enough to play my 'oldschool' games, and all I wish I could afford is a DVI converter for my cinema display + dvi switchbox so I could use that awesome monitor with both my computers ;D

Too bad that's too expensive.

For 3-D Studio Max and gaming? No, sir! If I could, I would, but that's not ever remotely an option. Besides, when I have all the parts, if I want to upgrade, I can just buy a new motherboards and processor and be done with it. Theoretically, anyway, I guess.

Thanks again for the info, dudes, but since we're on processors, why has AMD gone with that naming system again? As I understood it, that Athlon XP 2800+ (2.08GHz) supposedly performs at or better than a 2800-MHz P4? Or am I way off base?

Yeah, the AMD performance rating system for their processors reflects speeds similar to that offered by the Pentium4. While AMD claims their performance ratings have nothing to do with Intel's Pentium - The truth is quite the opposite. That 2.08GHz XP2800 will perform roughly on par with a 2.8GHz Pentium4.


PS, read the 'edit' on my original post about the 2.6 pentium4 HT.


Looks like the Athlon64 platform just went sub-$500


Athlon64 2GHz $404

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...tion=19-103-413


Refurb motherboard $90

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProdu...ion=13-128-200R

OK, some quick clarification from the PC-building experts.

He's almost done building his. Needs a graphics card (9600 Pro, 256MB) and RAM (1GB) and Windoze XP, which he'll take care of in the next two weeks. Everything's set up and ready to go�we installed the motherboard and hard drive, set it to master, plugged in the LEDs, etc. Didn't power it on, of course (we're not completely retarded). All he needs are those components and he's swapping out his DVD and CD-RW from his old machine into the new case. Anyhow, when it comes time to boot her up, what exactly is the protocol?

My assumption:

We boot from the Windows disc (I don't know how, though), and Windows will take care of the rest�initializing the HD, installing, etc. The mobo is just going to automatically recognize the CD-RW and DVD-ROM drives, I assume, since that's the only damn way to install Windows. Will he need to fiddle with the BIOS? He's as clueless�moreso, really�than I am about actually installing Windows. Building the computer was easy, but then what?

MindFad--


You may find you need a power supply in there at some point. And you'd better remember to get a heat sink for the CPU.

Additionally, if you shop around a bit, you should really not have to spend more than about 50�/GB on a decently sized hard disk (possibly inclusive of rebates). Good deals are often posted on the Anandtech boards.

Yes, most motherboards are set to auto-detect hard drives and optical drives everytime you power it on. In rare cases you might have to enter the BIOS setup menu in order to manually toggle the auto-detect feature. Any attached drives, the amount of installed RAM, and the CPU clockspeed are usually displayed at power-on. Check to see if the hard disk and optical drive are reported. You may have to enable this feature in the BIOS menu.


Firstly, you wanna make sure your Windows CD is bootable. I used to know which ones would boot, but lately I forget. I'm thinking that 'upgrade' versions will not boot. Microsoft expects that you'll initially boot from the 'full version', install it, then run the 'upgrade' version installer from within the existing Windows installation. BUT...You don't need to install the 'full version' of Windows AT ALL and it'll be an hour wasted. Ideally, you want to install the 'upgrade version' FIRST, then just let the setup thingy prompt you for a peek at the 'full version' Windows CD. It just wants to verify that you do own a full version copy. Only takes a few seconds to verify compliance, as opposed to an hour if you choose to install the 'full version' first, and avoid the compliance check. Other than the compliance check included in the 'upgrade version', there is zero difference between 'full version' and 'upgrade version' Windows disks.

If your Windows CD is not bootable, you need to create a bootable floppy disk or burn a bootable CD containing system files and CDROM driver. Or you can use an existing Windows installation to create a "Windows Start-up disk" (floppy). Or you can go to www.bootdisk.com and download a suitable disk image. The goal is to provide a bare minimum OS with a CDROM driver. You don't need to do this for a bootable Windows CD.

The motherboard has lots of features for booting. Generally, you choose a priority for each bootable device. Basic choices for booting include CDROM, Hard disk 0, Hard disk 1, floppy, network, etc. If you don't have a floppy disk, you'll want to make sure that 'CDROM' takes a higher priority than any hard disks or anything else. Arrange the boot order to where 'CDROM' is first and 'hard disk 0' is second. It probably won't matter which devices come next. Here's what your boot order should look like, assuming you have no floppy: CDROM, Hard Disk 0, whatever else . The motherboard will look for a bootable CD first (on ALL installed CDROM/DVDROM drives) - if none exists, then it continue to the next device on the list, the hard drive 0 (primary IDE/ATA channel and jumpered to master like you stated)...where your Windows bootloader will (eventually) reside.

Once you power-up the machine for the first time, you want to go into the BIOS (firmware) menu and adjust the date/time, arrange the boot order, and disable any "boot virus protection" (else the Windows installer won't be able to write anything to the hard disk boot sector!! this really sucks, btw, because it's hard to figure out WHY Windows won't install). Generally, all other default BIOS settings should be fine where they are. Read the motherboard user manual and familiarize yourself with the features and settings. The 'default' settings are 'safe' settings - and that means slow and stable. There are likely a lot of performance features, too, but you'll have to enable them manually. Do that later, if you wish, after the Windows installation.

When your BIOS setup options are complete, you're ready to load Windows. If your Windows CD is bootable, you'll get a message after the motherboard POST (power-on self-test) asking if you want to boot from the CD. Usually, for about 3-5 seconds you'll see "Press any key to boot from CDROM" displayed on your monitor. Press a key to boot from the Windows CD. You'll get a Windows menu. Choose "install Windows". If you don't press any keys, the motherboard will skip to the next device in the boot order (hard disk 0). Since Windows will restart the computer several times during installation, it's important that you do not allow it to boot from the CDROM during those restarts...so don't press any keys if it asks - let it time-out after a few seconds and then it'll continue on to the hard disk.

If your Windows CD is not bootable:

Use a bootable CD containing system files. You'll arrive at a commandline window showing just a cursor beside the current drive letter (probably 'D'). Swap the CD for the Windows CD, type 'setup', and press enter - you'll see the Windows setup menu screen.

If you have only a bootable floppy disk or Windows Start-up disk - you want to make sure that floppy drive is listed first and before CDROM and hard disks in your BIOS boot-order menu. Insert the floppy disk, power-on the machine, and it should boot from the floppy disk - leaving you with nothing but a cursor beside an A-prompt. A: is the drive letter assigned to floppy drives. When you see "A:>" then type D: (or whatever drive letter is assigned to your CDROM drive) and press enter. Now you should see nothing but "D:>" So then type 'setup' and press enter. That should launch the executeable named "setup.exe" that is found on the disk in drive D: - which is the Windows setup menu.


Apple offers a built-in "minimal OS" as part of its machine's firmware. This provides the CDROM drivers and other stuff required for installing an OS. It is essentially the equivalent of a Windows start-up floppy disk & a boot manager - without the need for a drive or disk.

Power supply came with the case, heat sink with fan and thermal j�zz (paste) and proc. shim came with mobo. And my bud found a good deal on a western digital at Best Buy for $70 (for 120GB) after rebates. He's psyched.

Spliff: You're the man. That's exactly what I needed to know. About messing with the BIOS, will it take you to the BIOS itself, or are there any special startup key commands to hold down? I'll let ya know how it goes in the next week or so. Thanks again!

There will be a message during the early stages of POST telling you to "Press Delete for Setup", or something similar. F1 and Delete are the most popular keys and will get you into 95% of all BIOS menus - excluding manufactured peecees.

Sometimes the window of opportunity is very short and you press the key too late - simply press cntrl-alt-delete and it'll restart for ya again.


PS, make sure to check for BIOS updates at the motherboard manufacturer's website. Your current BIOS revision # will be displayed during POST. Look for the date, not the numbers. The numbers may look different but the date never lies. Sometimes there are major bug-fixes and sometimes there are minor revisions that merely add newly released CPU speeds - so they are reported accurately, mostly. Don't waste your time if the update includes no bug fixes.

One more thing...

Your first stop after installing Windows and connecting to the internet should be at WindowsUpdate. Get all the current updates, patches, and (WHQL-only) drivers. Install a firewall such as Zonealarm (excellent freeware! www.zonealarm.com ). Then disable scripting in Outlook Express. yay. virus & worm resistant.

Then check for driver updates for your hardware. Most hardware seems to ship with old-ass drivers. Stick with WHQL approved drivers if stability is paramount, but I've had great luck with non-approved drivers. non-beta ones, anyways. Windows, by default, will install ONLY drivers that are WHQL-approved. It will balk at any attempt to load a non-WHQL driver by throwing up a dialog box warning you of the dire consequences of loading a crappy non-approved driver. You must approve the installation of non-WHQL drivers. The WindowsUpdate feature MAY not offer the newest WHQL drivers. You need to check the manufacturer's website to be sure you have the newest WHQL driver.

Why did I use the term WHQL so many damned times? I dunno. Most folks don't care which drivers they load as long as they work well.

aw hell.

While we're on the subject...

The Windows Setup installer will allow you to partition and format the hard drive (aka, physical drive) - and it will let you choose which partition (aka, logical drive) you want Windows files installed.

You have to decide whether to format the drive (and any partitions) as NTFS or FAT32. WindowsXP installer will default to NTFS format and system files will reside on drive C: You can format, add, and delete non-system partitions from within Windows later on (at least on XP Pro).

Non-NT versions of Windows cannot read or write an NTFS formatted drive. Few non-Windows operating systems can read&write to NTFS. That's the only downside of NTFS, in my opinion. If you want to be able to password-protect files and folders you have to use NTFS.

FAT32 offers almost universal read&write support. It doesn't offer much in the way of security or data integrity - but it's still very good and very useful. I retain at least one FAT32 partition in order to "exchange" files between 2 operating systems in a dual boot configuration. If the other OS can't read&write NTFS, then I simply move the data to the FAT32 partition beforehand. Leave a partition of maybe 4GB or so - and format it as FAT32, just in case - if you're gonna be using NTFS or other filesystem formats. You can add another hard drive later, when you add another OS. In place of a boot manager you can change the boot order in BIOS and boot from whichever hard drive (OS) you want.

You can get by with only 5GB for your Windows system partition if you don't install too many applications on that partition. Personally, I use a 40GB Windows partition and just let it ride. Seems to be enough room (Oddly, some application installers won't even work without a C: drive being available). I just keep all my audio/video files on their own partition.

Is it better that Sygate Personal Firewall? (the firewall that I use, and I think it is good).

And what about the Windows XP integrated firewall?

It's probably not as full-featured as Sygate's software - but Zonealarm might offer something competitive that isn't freeware.

Zonealarm is easy to use, non-intrusive (and no ads), and very effective. It's just hard to beat. Oh yeah, it even disables Outlook Express scripting for you. geez. I'm surprised it doesn't cook you breakfast.

XP's integrated firewall lacks a GUI. You'll go nuts wondering why your Yahoo Messenger file transfers don't work, why your network games won't 'network', and why nothing on any network can see you. It's so secure you can't get anything done. Zonealarm ASKS if you want to allow an application's request to access the network. Unlike XP's firewall, which simply declines the request and doesn't bother telling you.

Depending on the type of network setup you choose, WindowsXP's built-in firewall may or may not be enabled by default. I disabled mine.

That case is very...very... interesting. I would never buy a pre modded case. Get a nice chieftec one

OK, folks, we've run into a problem. It ... won't start up, and everything is connected properly (or so we think). We've run over every single pin and setting of jumpers. Everything has power, everything is set up and ready to go, but it won't start.

When we turn the power on in the back, the fans light up for a brief second. Then when we go to power the board up from the switch at the front of the computer, nothing. At first, we realized the connection was broken (pieces weren't connected), so we fixed that still nothing. Checked all of the pin assignments. Still nothing. So we have a box full of nice expensive PC parts, a copy of Halo, WindowsXP, and our dicks in our hands.

Is there some checklist to go over to see what could possibly be wrong? The thing is getting power. But damn! Hard drives don't spin up, fans don't come on, etc. when the power button is pushed at the front. Just that brief second when you close the circuit in the back (with the switch). Sigh. Any help is very, very appreciated. Thanks, guys�let me know if you need some specs.

Two things to try:

One, check where the front panel switchs connect to the motherboard. The black connectors from the panel will have a triangle faintly marked on them indicating pin 1. Look on the motherboard or in the motherboard book to find out which side of that pin block is pin one. Make sure all the connectors are on in the correct location and oriented properly- polarity matters.

Two, remove all accessory cards and cables from the motherboard, only that which is needed to boot: power supply, front panel, graphics card. Make sure RAM is firmly and correctly installed. Ditto for processor.

I really like these guys:

http://jncs.com/

My other advice: go with a good serial ATA for the hard disks. If you want to make sure a disk crash doesn't kill you, mirror them with a good disk controller. Otherwise, I'd go for RAID 0 madness.

If you can afford a dual processor setup, do it. If makes a huge difference. I run Windows apps all the time. I've got this dual 333 box at work that runs some apps like a champ. It would choke if it were a single 333.

Don't forget a good UPS system. I can't tell you how many systems I have to rebuild because of dirty power. It's ridiculous that people pay $1500 putting a killer system together and then plug it straight into the wall "because an $80 UPS is unnecessary."


wolfen

Thanks, dude, but we're past the part-buying. (See above.) I will keep them in mind, though, when I build my own.

Thanks, vmarks. We'll take those steps. I'll report back. Thanks!

first..

Use the 'Clear CMOS' jumper. This resets all BIOS options to default. Move the jumper from the "normal" position and place it in the "clear" position for a few seconds. I reckon this is akin to pressing the CUDA button on a Mac.

NOTE: Some motherboards ship with the jumper set to "clear", not "normal". The motherboard won't POST if the CMOS jumper is set to "clear". Why do they ship 'em this way? Because they're idiots or maybe they like getting a ton of RMAs.

Some motherboards don't do nuthin unless the CPU and RAM are installed. Make sure these components are fully seated in their sockets.

Generally, even a bare motherboard will power-on. No RAM, CPU, or video card. Just plug in the power supply cable and use the power switch or a pair of toenail clippers to momentarily connect the appropriate pins. Motherboards with an onboard speaker might even give you a 'beep code' to identify the error (CPU failure, no doubt).


You don't have to go that far. Yet. Just strip her down to the video card, CPU (and its fan) and one stick of RAM. No hard drive cables or floppy cables, nothing in the PCI slots. make sure the power supply is powered-off AND unplugged. Then reset the CMOS using the jumper. Place the jumper back in the normal position, then remove the battery. Stare at that battery for a few minutes while you have a cup of coffee. You're waiting for some capacitors to lose their charge. Put the battery back in, plug-in the power supply, and power-up the motherboard.

If nothing happens....

repeat above procedure using a different stick of RAM if possible.

If nothing happens....

Pull the motherboard out of the case and lay it down on something non-conductive (Formica countertop, wood floor, a newspaper. Sure static electricity can kill stuff like motherboards, but it's a longshot. I've done it hundreds of times without incident. Wrist straps are for sissies and folks that handle electronics all day long.

Anyways, the goal is to eliminate any possibility thatthe case itself was grounding or shorting the motherboard. try powering it up with just CPU, RAM, and video card. No luck? Unplug the power and pull the lever to release the CPU out of the socket. Examine the pins on the CPU. Look OK? Drop it back into the socket - making sure it's fully seated - and lock it down. Pull out the RAM and reseat it. Try to power it up again.



next....


If you're sure all the jumpers (prolly aren't very many) are in their correct locations, and you're sure the power supply is working (all voltages, all rails) then you got a dud motherboard. It's extremely unlikely that the CPU is faulty or the RAM is faulty...however, there's an even chance of it being either the motherboard or power supply. Borrow a power supply if you can. I've seen way more DOA power supplies than I've seen DOA Asus motherboards. If all else fails, either return it to the retailer for exchange (if possible) or RMA it back to the manufacturer (2 week turnaround).

A no-boot condition on a newly-built peecee is commonplace. hell, about one-third of mine don't do diddily the first time the power button is pushed. But somehow, 95% of the time I manage to bring them to life.


longshot:

Some motherboards 'look' for rotation of the CPU cooling fan before they will allow POST *power-on self-test. Most fans have a 3rd wire (blue, typically) that is used to deliver a RPM signal to the motherboard. If the motherboard doesn't 'see' any fan rotation on the CPU - it won't POST. The CPU fan should have 3 wires and should be plugged into the motherboard fan header reserved for the CPU fan. If this is true in your case, this is not the problem.


next.....



bong hit.