Thread
IRC Behavioural Issues.
Hey Everybody. This doesn't apply to a lot of people here, either because they don't visit the IRC channel, or because they have been behaving just fine.
For the rest of you, there are a few things I'd like to address.
For starters, I'd like to say that we were been doing a great job since the week of +m, and I am really sad to say that it seems like we've started falling downhill again.
I've noticed a lot of people attacking other people's reputations. In particular, it seems like the IRC channel always has one "whipping boy." It's changed recently, and I'm going to admit that the previous "whipping boy" has taken a delight in the new one.
This, and things like it have got to stop. It's a very "pot calling the kettle black" situation, and it is *very* unfair to new members of the IRC channel when people who have been around for awhile decide it would be fun or somehow cool to treat them so poorly.
Another thing I'd like to stop is the creation and/or referencing of dossiers. For people to be waving those types of records around is quite distasteful and I'm sure none of you who have been doing that would like it if somebody made an Internet dossier about you, then waved it in everybody's faces while you were around, un such a way as to embarrass you.
So stop that.
For the rest of you, there are a few things I'd like to address.
For starters, I'd like to say that we were been doing a great job since the week of +m, and I am really sad to say that it seems like we've started falling downhill again.
I've noticed a lot of people attacking other people's reputations. In particular, it seems like the IRC channel always has one "whipping boy." It's changed recently, and I'm going to admit that the previous "whipping boy" has taken a delight in the new one.
This, and things like it have got to stop. It's a very "pot calling the kettle black" situation, and it is *very* unfair to new members of the IRC channel when people who have been around for awhile decide it would be fun or somehow cool to treat them so poorly.
Another thing I'd like to stop is the creation and/or referencing of dossiers. For people to be waving those types of records around is quite distasteful and I'm sure none of you who have been doing that would like it if somebody made an Internet dossier about you, then waved it in everybody's faces while you were around, un such a way as to embarrass you.
So stop that.
My sincerest apologies to anyone I have offended.
It's not just about being sincere, or sorry, or apologizing when you've done something. It's about not doing it again.
I am guilty of it too, and I need to stop. I think I'll leave the channel for a while, and find somewhere else to hang out. I seem to get irritated a little too easily over some things.
I have been one of the few getting the brunt end of it, and it always seems to be ghmd that is always either accusing me of something, or belittling me. I go there looking for online friends, but only finding people that treat me like an enemy. It's stupid when I can't say anything without being attacked and it's downright wrong to have that happen.
Yeah, I know.
Btw, I wasn't trying to attack you. I was just trying to let you know that you were possibly wasting money on something that might not work.
Btw, I wasn't trying to attack you. I was just trying to let you know that you were possibly wasting money on something that might not work.
you never know till you try 
Well, you could've tried with free hosting and a subdomain and then upgraded if it became popular.
i was at the attacking end :'( . I am still angry at some of you for the insults and the format trick > 
. IRC is a mess and needs tight control. Cory5142,Glad you finally realized the issue.
. IRC is a mess and needs tight control. Cory5142,Glad you finally realized the issue.
yea i left cause things was still bad on my end in the 68kmla channel , and was tired of not feeling like i belonged there. i liked it there , just a few people didn't like me in return and made it hard for me to feel like i belonged, so i left.
granted i do miss it not being there, i just didn't think that being harassed for something i do all of the time ( on a normal basis, after installing a App, or installing updates, or when the computer act's weird) to my computer for maintenance and upkeep is worth being there.
it's nothing but childish BS that made me leave in the first place, and its something i would love to see end, and the only way to resolve that is to get rid of the people that like to harass others, nagging at others ( over nothing at all), receiving harassing email ( i got a few of them from some one in 68kmla that knew i was in there and active) and this if i think its stupid you should think its stupid also attitude.
some of them there i just cant stand cause of there uptight ( as in my c*** dont stink and childish behavior rolled into one) attitude. i never bothered anyone, i like to get allong with people and have friendly chats and talk about things ( computer related and non), but as soon as something i said i wanted to do or buy a few people would act like i was plotting to kill someone.
i just could not stand it ( and i didn't have to) so i left, no one should have to put up with that bull c***, and it makes it hard for a chat to expand and evolve into something great cause of all of the unfriendly atmosphere some people bring to the room and and has no respect for others and treat people like they are stupid.
i am glad for you Cory you realize what needs to be done and want to change the IRC channel around for the better, you are a good person Cory i had no issues with you and allot of the people there, only with a select few did i have issues with that had no respect for others and dont know the meaning of the word
granted i do miss it not being there, i just didn't think that being harassed for something i do all of the time ( on a normal basis, after installing a App, or installing updates, or when the computer act's weird) to my computer for maintenance and upkeep is worth being there.
it's nothing but childish BS that made me leave in the first place, and its something i would love to see end, and the only way to resolve that is to get rid of the people that like to harass others, nagging at others ( over nothing at all), receiving harassing email ( i got a few of them from some one in 68kmla that knew i was in there and active) and this if i think its stupid you should think its stupid also attitude.
some of them there i just cant stand cause of there uptight ( as in my c*** dont stink and childish behavior rolled into one) attitude. i never bothered anyone, i like to get allong with people and have friendly chats and talk about things ( computer related and non), but as soon as something i said i wanted to do or buy a few people would act like i was plotting to kill someone.
i just could not stand it ( and i didn't have to) so i left, no one should have to put up with that bull c***, and it makes it hard for a chat to expand and evolve into something great cause of all of the unfriendly atmosphere some people bring to the room and and has no respect for others and treat people like they are stupid.
i am glad for you Cory you realize what needs to be done and want to change the IRC channel around for the better, you are a good person Cory i had no issues with you and allot of the people there, only with a select few did i have issues with that had no respect for others and dont know the meaning of the word
The channel will not change untill you people grow up, so come back in 10 years or so.
was you pointing that towards me
You really do "tread on eggshells" when using the IRC channel. While the key to a good experience is to behave in a mature and considerate manner, often this is not upheld and leaves channel management and frequents in a position to attempt to resolve the issue, often to the dislike of others.
We have some of the finest management at the head of the channel, but even only so much can be done without co-operation of the users.
Unfortunately by the current track record, I think Unknown_K may be correct.
We have some of the finest management at the head of the channel, but even only so much can be done without co-operation of the users.
Unfortunately by the current track record, I think Unknown_K may be correct.
None of the other IRC channels I have been in ever had those kind of problems, let alone had them all the time.
No, should I have?
I have been in the channel many times, its not one person its everyone. Somebody starts it and the rest join in just like in a gradeschool playground. I don't know everybodies age in there (nor do I want to), but the group as a whole acts like they are 12 years old (mentally).
I thought IRC was all better now. [8]
Not quite, far from it.
Here's an idea: Don't use IRC.
I personally can't see any reason why I would need immediate feedback on issues relating to 68k (I mean, really, who actually employs these things for critical uses that would require 24/7 troubleshooting?!), and the quality of response from the community at large has got to be better on the website.
This might make me unpopular, but while I enjoy talking to people on this forum, I have never made the mistaken assumption that any of you are actually my friends. Sure, I'm friendly with many of you, but I would never discuss personal problems on this forum, so I have a hard time understanding those that do. When it comes down to it, none of us really knows anybody here. Some things should just stay private, and if you are looking for real-life friends, you should probably look elsewhere (like in the real world) first. And from that you get the logical extension that you really can't take any personal comments to heart in a forum like this. Let it go like water under the bridge...
Peace,
Drew
I personally can't see any reason why I would need immediate feedback on issues relating to 68k (I mean, really, who actually employs these things for critical uses that would require 24/7 troubleshooting?!), and the quality of response from the community at large has got to be better on the website.
This might make me unpopular, but while I enjoy talking to people on this forum, I have never made the mistaken assumption that any of you are actually my friends. Sure, I'm friendly with many of you, but I would never discuss personal problems on this forum, so I have a hard time understanding those that do. When it comes down to it, none of us really knows anybody here. Some things should just stay private, and if you are looking for real-life friends, you should probably look elsewhere (like in the real world) first. And from that you get the logical extension that you really can't take any personal comments to heart in a forum like this. Let it go like water under the bridge...
Peace,
Drew
no no, i was just asking. cause as far as i know we never had any issues with each other.
your post is one of the reasons i left, cause it was always like that. i always tried to keep my peace with people
oh and sorry for playing the magical quote window game
For the most part I get along ok with 99% of people. The original 68mla irc channel on EFNET never had too many issues untill diaz took it over. I never had to ban anybody from the one on undernet (I did kick somebody who was acting up once). Just seems like the one on newnet is nothing but a problem.
I don't think it is just an age issue because I got along great with Cory way back when he was in HS, never had issues with PatrickCool and he just got out of diapers (j/k) recently. It is just a matter of maturity, knowing when to stop kidding around before you hurt somebodies feelings or you make people embarrased and unwelcome.
Some people think you can do whatever you want on the internet, I think that in any social gathering (online or in person) you need to respect the people around you.
I don't think it is just an age issue because I got along great with Cory way back when he was in HS, never had issues with PatrickCool and he just got out of diapers (j/k) recently. It is just a matter of maturity, knowing when to stop kidding around before you hurt somebodies feelings or you make people embarrased and unwelcome.
Some people think you can do whatever you want on the internet, I think that in any social gathering (online or in person) you need to respect the people around you.
couldn't put it any better myself
the mature ones know where that line is , the immature ones don't even know what that means so they constantly disrespect, dont follow rules, dont stop doing something even when asked to do so, from the OP's or the people they are disrespecting.
but like you said, things in the 68kmla channel isn't going to change until people grow up ( i remember saying in the channel before that maturity isn't determined by the age of the person, but by how the person act's). a community cant evolve with people acting the way some people act in 68kmla. its slowly de-evolving the community for the lack of better terms, and that in itself can kill a community over time. i have seen things like this destroy a few online communities i use to belonged to.
Cory and others sees this and doesn't want this to happen, and neither do i. its painful to watch it happen and even more painful if it does to some.
I've joined and quit the 68kmla IRC channel twice now (I left last a couple of years back) because of exactly this purile and stupid behaviour, a good dose of which found it';s way to me. My rules are simple - the Internet is my social life, so if it's not fun or people are pissing me off that's enough for me to leave. Sometimes I try to ride it out and smooth the waters, which has worked in the past, but the MLA IRC room was, and from the sounds of it still is, just a ridiculous soup of playground 'you foo' and name calling.
You need mature and sensible moderators with big 'kickban' axes and a sign up that says 'grow up or get out' IMHO. No, I'm not volunteering either. I don't have a level enough head, and it's got me into trouble in IRC channels in the past, so I'm not suitable, and I'm not afraid to admit that.
I hope you find some way to sort it out, but frankly the age bracket this site attracts is prone to this type of behaviour in social settings so it's only to be expected.
You need mature and sensible moderators with big 'kickban' axes and a sign up that says 'grow up or get out' IMHO. No, I'm not volunteering either. I don't have a level enough head, and it's got me into trouble in IRC channels in the past, so I'm not suitable, and I'm not afraid to admit that.
I hope you find some way to sort it out, but frankly the age bracket this site attracts is prone to this type of behaviour in social settings so it's only to be expected.
When it comes to discussing 68k Macs, the IRC channel has been pretty useless for quite a while. Almost none of the discussion relates to old Macs.
If you're looking to discuss 68k Macs, you'd have to find another channel that actually does discuss them :/
If you're looking to discuss 68k Macs, you'd have to find another channel that actually does discuss them :/
Honestly, for discussing 68k Macs, alk has got it right, this forum is where that should happen.
The channel exists primarily for people like SVP, who have said the Internet is their social life, or for people who happen to be online at similar times, and would like to discuss something in real-time, sometimes it's more helpful than the forums.
Most of the time, it's way better just to ask a question on the forum.
That said, I don't think that the 68kMLA channel is without purpose, it catches a lot of the stuff that would otherwise end up in the Lounge on this forum, stuff that really does not need to be posted on this forum. Things like "what are you eating right now?" and "what is your desktop picture?" Community things that nobody is going to care about in five years when somebody new to the 68k scene wants to know the best system on which to run The Writing Center.
Make no mistake about it, This isn't something I just started noticing yesterday, but in general, I try not to be an operator who has nothing better to do than kickban people. Under the rule of a more strict operator, half of the channel would have been kickbanned long, long ago.
I've tried tight control, I went as far as completely silencing the channel for a full week. I've tried letting the channel self-moderate itself, only receiving occasional little hints.
What's next?
The channel exists primarily for people like SVP, who have said the Internet is their social life, or for people who happen to be online at similar times, and would like to discuss something in real-time, sometimes it's more helpful than the forums.
Most of the time, it's way better just to ask a question on the forum.
That said, I don't think that the 68kMLA channel is without purpose, it catches a lot of the stuff that would otherwise end up in the Lounge on this forum, stuff that really does not need to be posted on this forum. Things like "what are you eating right now?" and "what is your desktop picture?" Community things that nobody is going to care about in five years when somebody new to the 68k scene wants to know the best system on which to run The Writing Center.
Make no mistake about it, This isn't something I just started noticing yesterday, but in general, I try not to be an operator who has nothing better to do than kickban people. Under the rule of a more strict operator, half of the channel would have been kickbanned long, long ago.
I've tried tight control, I went as far as completely silencing the channel for a full week. I've tried letting the channel self-moderate itself, only receiving occasional little hints.
What's next?
I still think you should give people a predetermined number of warnings then when they are up remove the disruptive person from the channel with a kickban and no second thoughts or arguments. If they try to evade the initial ban put a more strict one in place.Eventually the worst people that were acting as a catalyst for the rest of the channel will hopefully be gone.
When you are giving a warning have you ever tried de-voicing them and setting the channel to +m? I find it nice for keeping them from bitching and disturbing while you are typing.
As for keeping track of warnings though.. You could have a plain text file on a server that you have write access to and as people get warned just add them to the file and put a number for warnings by the nick&hostaddy. That way people could see how close they were to being removed and at least be careful. Or so one would hope anyway.
I don't know. I left right after the one week +m as some might remember.
People are lemmings for the most part. Like I said before one guy starts something up and the rest follow along, kickban the instigator and the rest shut up and talk about something else. If you let things get so bad that everybody takes turn being an instigator then you basically have to flush half the channel. You have to decide what the rules are , post them in a FAQ link, and make sure the rules apply to everyone fairly. Some things you can talk to people about not doing them again, others its a do it once and get the boot forever type thing.
If nobody wants to police the channel, and the members do not want to follow the rules you can just shut the channel down for good.
You have to understand that the official 68kmla IRC channel represents the forum, one can make the other look very bad.
If nobody wants to police the channel, and the members do not want to follow the rules you can just shut the channel down for good.
You have to understand that the official 68kmla IRC channel represents the forum, one can make the other look very bad.
especially with the IRC client built into the 68kmla site... people that stumble into the channel will leave quickly again, if there is one of the fights going on
If bad people are continued to be banned, everything should be fine. :b&w:
Like how you were banned for causing trouble and being disgusting?
I'm with Cory and Unknown_K all the way here. People need to set down the rules in stone and enforce them evenly and fairly. It's how the channels I have modded on, and the best ones I just hang around in, are run, and it works well.
General rules I've worked under before are:
- Treat others as you want to be treated. Excessively degrading, insulting or intimidating behavior is grounds for an instant ban for a set period and, in extreme cases, a permaban.
- Be Reasonable.
- Respect other's viewpoints and ideas as much as you expect yours to be respected.
- Keep language civil and swear/cuss words to a minimum - excessive bad-mouthing and swear/cussing will result in a warning, continued refusal to acknowledge warnings will result in a set period ban, and any further persistent violation a permaban.
- No infringements of Copyright or the Law.
- No Porn (by which I mean 'real' pornography) or Warez (or similar illegal items) to be mentioned, linked to, or traded.
- If you are having a bad day don't take it out on people in IRC.
- Moderators are not here to make your life miserable they are here to keep everyone civil, happy and getting along.
Adherence to a simple set of rules like this (and any others I might have missed) are the foundations of a civil, mature and fun IRC channel. Hell if you can make it work I might even come back
General rules I've worked under before are:
- Treat others as you want to be treated. Excessively degrading, insulting or intimidating behavior is grounds for an instant ban for a set period and, in extreme cases, a permaban.
- Be Reasonable.
- Respect other's viewpoints and ideas as much as you expect yours to be respected.
- Keep language civil and swear/cuss words to a minimum - excessive bad-mouthing and swear/cussing will result in a warning, continued refusal to acknowledge warnings will result in a set period ban, and any further persistent violation a permaban.
- No infringements of Copyright or the Law.
- No Porn (by which I mean 'real' pornography) or Warez (or similar illegal items) to be mentioned, linked to, or traded.
- If you are having a bad day don't take it out on people in IRC.
- Moderators are not here to make your life miserable they are here to keep everyone civil, happy and getting along.
Adherence to a simple set of rules like this (and any others I might have missed) are the foundations of a civil, mature and fun IRC channel. Hell if you can make it work I might even come back