Thread

Living in an OS 9.X - ADB/SerialMac World . . .

68kMLA · Hardware · 52 posts · Sep 9, 2009 — Nov 27, 2009 View original thread ↗

#1 Wed, 9 Sep 2009 - 05:30 68kMLA

. . . that's about where I am right now. But I'm LOVIN' IT!

Lots of OS 9 Software, LOTS of OS 9 Hardware, some Hardware/Vertical Market Software bundles w/ADB Dongles.

So I've been purchasing a lil' bit here, a bigger bit there and so forth, setting up my "little" OS 9.X/ADB Bubble.

I've got one pressing question though. LC posted, in a precursor to this thread, that the B&W G-3 was the last tower w/home grown ADB. If that's the case, I've spotted what I think is the B&W 15" Studio Display on one of my my MacSpelunking expeditions.

Was this "war of the worlds" tripod lookin' monitor very good? How reliable? And are any of them worth a D**n after all these years? What do they usually go for on eBay & such? How hard would it be to hack a REAL monitor into it, if it's DOA? I can't test it where it's located, but It'd go REALLY great with a B&W G-3 set up in the living room as a plotter server for the 40" CAMMjet and it'd be a nice color contrast with my Graphite playtoy on the opposite side of the room!

The B&W G-3 version of my 466 DA Tower ought to be a significant improvement over the 6360/Crescendo G-3 466 that I set up downstairs whenever I've got some plotting to do. It's been used in that plotter-server role since I got the 466 DA. It was my main production machine before the DA, but I'm thinking about retiring it due to the plan to push LOTS of pixels through the plotter instead of the postscript outlines (for vinyl cutting/pen plotting) the 6360 was doing fine with all these years.

Besides, it'd be nice to finally collect ALL the OS 9 Native Tower Types, I've got the Graphite DA & a Quicksilver already. I just need the B&W G-3 for now and I'll snag the OS 9 sprint champion, Dual 1.25 GHz MDD when the money available matches the right box . . .

. . . someday . . . =8-\

So whatcha' think? Do I take a chance on the fugl . . . erm . . . appearance challenged . . . tiny . . . AS IS . . .

. . . 15" B&W Studio Display . . . or let the urge pass? :?:

BTW: I'll be bloggin' along in this thread as the process of settin' up my lil' Y2K era playground progresses, so feel free to chime in with ANY & ALL Y2K era info, advice or even silly little stories.

This place is SUPPOSED to be FUN! [

] ]'>

#2 Wed, 9 Sep 2009 - 05:46 68kMLA

You mean like the one in the middle?

http://www.hurtley.info/Media/StudioDisplayssm.jpg

click to enlarge

I like mine. I have one of the original 'dark blue' ones (released with the beige G3, has the older-style Apple video connector,) two of the B&W ones, and one graphite. One B&W one is a little flaky (works fine for half an hour or so, then the picture slowly fades away over the course of the next half hour.) The dark blue is totally dead. The second B&W and the graphite work perfectly. Although as you can see, the B&W is noticeably dimmer than the others. This was partly just the way it was, and partly probably that it's older and more worn than the graphite.

I used mine as my primary display on my desktop computer for quite a few years, including on a PC. Unfortunately, for some reason, it doesn't work through a KVM I have.

The big thing is to make sure you get a power brick. These boogers have their power connection 'reverse' from normal. Instead of the brick having a wire that plugs into a socket on the monitor, the monitor has a wire that plugs into a socket on the brick. (And the other side of the brick has a standard PC power connector; so when disconnected from both monitor and wall, the brick has no wires at all sticking out.)

#3 Wed, 9 Sep 2009 - 18:38 68kMLA

I'm also livin' and lovin' the OS9/ADB lifestyle. I picked up a Rev. 2 B&W a year or so back and upgraded the heck out of it: maxed G3 CPU at 1.1GHz, maxed RAM (1 gig), and a Radeon 7000 (kept the original 128 plugged in for dual monitor goodness if I need it).

I've always wanted one of these but could never afford one new. I used a Performa 6116 full time from '96 to '04 so I never got to enjoy any software that couldn't run smoothly on 60MHz, lol.

Anyway, I have an ADB Wacom tablet (6x8) for use with my Adobe suite (Photoshop 6, Premiere 5, Illustrator 9, and After Effects 4, all legit). The main purpose of my G3: an animation studio! And it's perfect for it. My monitor is a 19" widescreen and I can boot into Tiger if I want to browse the net or run some more modern emulators.

I also have a Gravis MouseStick for some A-10 Attack/Cuba goodness, a Gravis Gamepad, and a Kensington trackball, all ADB. I kept all of my software from my Performa days (still have that too!) so I can enjoy LucasArts games, Diablo, Starcraft, Alone In The Dark trilogy, etc. Good times!

Now if I had a nice Wallstreet PDQ I could have a portable version of the last of the ADB Macs!

#4 Wed, 9 Sep 2009 - 20:31 68kMLA

You mean like the one in the middle?

BTW, NICE piccie, NICER Collection! I can't wait to see it on a monitor a tad bigger than 10.1" though. =8-\

Is that the iMac-on-a-Tripod lookin' CRT or the, later, LCD version? I'm stalking the CRT . . . }

. . . two of the B&W ones, and one graphite. One B&W one is a little flaky (works fine for half an hour or so, then the picture slowly fades away over the course of the next half hour.) The dark blue is totally dead. The second B&W and the graphite work perfectly. Although as you can see, the B&W is noticeably dimmer than the others. This was partly just the way it was, and partly probably that it's older and more worn than the graphite.

I used mine as my primary display on my desktop computer for quite a few years, including on a PC. Unfortunately, for some reason, it doesn't work through a KVM I have.

I haven't worked on anything less than a 19" B&W Panasonic at 21" resolution since about 1987 . . . [

] ]'>

I wish I still had it, cuz it was nice and shallow, as compared to a Color CRT. I was saving it for a MacQuarium hack, but it went away with most the Macs that had made the cut for my uprooting from the Big Apple. I moved to the nicest small town in NC and lost my storage room during my first hospitalization. Five years later I'm unpacking all the stuff that just happened to be in my apartment, which my parents saved for me and the town has been gentrified (read: RUINED!) and is now . . .

. . . surrounded by the sprawling cancer of suburban hell.

The big thing is to make sure you get a power brick. These boogers have their power connection 'reverse' from normal. Instead of the brick having a wire that plugs into a socket on the monitor, the monitor has a wire that plugs into a socket on the brick. (And the other side of the brick has a standard PC power connector; so when disconnected from both monitor and wall, the brick has no wires at all sticking out.)

Does the CRT have a lump-on-a-rope too? BLEEEECH!!!!!!!!!

I may just avoid that Bondi Blue (?) POS I spotted in that case!

Bruegger's is closing so I've gotta sign off for now, thanks for the quick reply!

#5 Wed, 9 Sep 2009 - 21:15 68kMLA

I moved to the nicest small town in NC and lost my storage room during my first hospitalization. Five years later I'm unpacking all the stuff that just happened to be in my apartment, which my parents saved for me and the town has been gentrified (read: RUINED!) and is now . . .. . . surrounded by the sprawling cancer of suburban hell.

Would that town be Lizard Lick?

I'm in between Raleigh and Wake Forest in the boonies myself.

#6 Wed, 9 Sep 2009 - 22:20 68kMLA

Does the CRT have a lump-on-a-rope too? BLEEEECH!!!!!!!!! I may just avoid that Bondi Blue (?) POS I spotted in that case!

Nah, the 17" CRT has an inbuilt power supply - best of luck finding a working one though, I remember these monitors had a *lot* of problems back in the day.

#7 Wed, 9 Sep 2009 - 23:39 68kMLA

I'm rolling my honkin' big ADB Kensington Turbo Mouse trackball around with my fingertips and typing on my black Apple Extended Keyboard II, both attached to my new Cube via an iMate ADB-USB converter.

In 10.3 I had the Kensington prefpane to customize all four button clicks, and their combo chords. In 10.4 I have basic one-click functionality, but functionality nonetheless.

I too have a fair collection of ADB accessories, from pointing devices and drawing tablets to joysticks, gamepads, and even a wireless IR keyboard/ball combo

It's a real shame development for the iMate stopped, and that they're still pretty expensive when they turn up.

Also, may I add, LONG LIVE RS-422 !!

#8 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 00:35 68kMLA

Does the CRT have a lump-on-a-rope too? BLEEEECH!!!!!!!!! I may just avoid that Bondi Blue (?) POS I spotted in that case!

AH I had a feeling you were talking about a CRT, whereas Anonymous Freak's "booger" is an LCD. Does your quarry look like this?

apple_studio_display17_blue.jpg.9c1ca90bce061b66c3698d26564c5c0a.jpg

'cause that's a 17"er. (16" viewable, so easily mistaken for a 15"er I guess) Nice specs, too; hardly a "POS", with that Mitsubishi Diamondtron tube and all. I'd grab it. If it's working that is.

According to everymac, there was no 15" Studio CRT

http://www.everymac.com/monitors/apple/index.html

Personally, I'm absolutely delighted with my new shiny pixel pump

apple_studio_display_17clr.jpg.79ad820ebcc152c55ee1c4663b20a8d0.jpg

Last 'o the Apple tubes, and the only one with ADC.

Many might bag ADC as a misguided effort - I have myself. But with my display hosting and powering my H/K 10W ball speakers, my keyboard and mouse, and (some day) my iSub, there is but one umbilicus trailing back to the Cube for everything, including monitor power. Add a USB DVD drive, and the computer might as well be in another room - which for audio engineers is often a good thing. Call me a latter day ADC convert.

IMHO their big mistake was making ADC proprietary - and one they should have learned from the AppleVision connector fiasco. I see they've learned their lesson with DisplayPort being an open standard.

Ah, offtopic again ... where where we ... ADB ... ADC ... what comes next?

#9 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 02:35 68kMLA

ADD?

If it was a studio LCD with the composite and vga ports, get it. They are probably one of the most rare of all of the Apple screens.

#10 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 04:46 68kMLA

I moved to the nicest small town in NC . . . and the town has been gentrified (read: RUINED!) and is now . . .. . . surrounded by the sprawling cancer of suburban hell.

Click to expand...

Would that town be Lizard Lick? I'm in between Raleigh and Wake Forest in the boonies myself.

Lizard Lick?????????? :?:

Nope, "The Peak of Good Living" right next door to the most malignant tumor on the face of the Triangle. CARY!

BLEEEECCCHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >

PTUI!!!!!!!!!!

The natives call it the Containment Area for Relocated Yankees! :-/

Sounds an awful lot like Andersonville to me! [

] ]'>

When I was living with my brother there for five months, I watched one of their "Town Meetings" on Cable TV. That was the nastiest, most arrogant collection of ignorant pissants I've ever seen in one place, (outside of D.C) each of them sitting behind a laptop and trying to OUT SNOB the others. The only way to make ANY improvement on that town council woulda' been to toss in a Satchel Charge . . .

. . . well that might be a little extreme, but you should hear the laughs I get at the store when I tell THAT one! }

#11 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 05:35 68kMLA

I'm also livin' and lovin' the OS9/ADB lifestyle. I picked up a Rev. 2 B&W a year or so back and upgraded the heck out of it: maxed G3 CPU at 1.1GHz, maxed RAM (1 gig), and a Radeon 7000 (kept the original 128 plugged in for dual monitor goodness if I need it).

WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!! NICE! I snagged an '02 Quicksilver, but still haven't got it up & running.

I've always wanted one of these but could never afford one new. I used a Performa 6116 full time from '96 to '04 so I never got to enjoy any software that couldn't run smoothly on 60MHz, lol.

Well, NOW you've got one! Congrats, comrade! Back when I first enlisted in the MLA, I went about collecting all the stuff I'd been dreaming about from the IIfx-Quadra eras. Now I'm into the old Iron from the pre-Y2K-Y2K+3 era! Costs are a little higher, but I don't NEED all that much! [

] ]'>

Anyway, I have an ADB Wacom tablet (6x8) for use with my Adobe suite (Photoshop 6, Premiere 5, Illustrator 9, and After Effects 4, all legit). The main purpose of my G3: an animation studio! And it's perfect for it. My monitor is a 19" widescreen and I can boot into Tiger if I want to browse the net or run some more modern emulators.

Your mention of the ADB Wacom is what prodded me into editing the thread's title! Sometimes being a mod has its good points! Mine is a 12"x12" SERIAL Wacom and the interface for my 40" CAMMjet runs off the ole' DIN-8 connection (RS-422?) and the Software's Dongle is ADB.

The only animation I've ever done (on a computer) was my PogoHamsters Avatar over on 'fritter. I did that in GraphicConverter and it worked GREAT, but the new forum software cuts the limit to 80x80 pixels, My bouncing pets are something like 83x83 and I don't feel like doin'em over, maybe I'll post them in this thread . . .

. . . especially with Christmas coming up! }

Does your Rev. 2 B&W still have the good old fashioned serial port/modem port (AKA: 1.5 Serial Ports! =8-P) combo?

I also have a Gravis MouseStick for some A-10 Attack/Cuba goodness, a Gravis Gamepad, and a Kensington trackball, all ADB. I kept all of my software from my Performa days (still have that too!) so I can enjoy LucasArts games, Diablo, Starcraft, Alone In The Dark trilogy, etc. Good times!

Yep, I've got almost every package I've ever bought, each in its own Zip-Loc bag w/docs, distribution media and the informative parts of the boxes cut & flattened in the bag for ID purposes. I don't recall which JoyStick I've got, but it's USB for the G-4 466 DA along with the Nostromo Gamepad I programmed to run all my hotkeys for reformatting pics in GraphicConverter . . .

I've got the early version, the new one Scares ME! 8-o

Now if I had a nice Wallstreet PDQ I could have a portable version of the last of the ADB Macs!

What's a Wallstreet PDQ? I want a Wallstreet too, but I'm not familiar with that designation/variation.

#12 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 05:47 68kMLA

Now if I had a nice Wallstreet PDQ I could have a portable version of the last of the ADB Macs!

Click to expand...

What's a Wallstreet PDQ? I want a Wallstreet too, but I'm not familiar with that designation/variation.

It's just the second Wallstreet model series (the models with L2 cache)

#13 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 06:06 68kMLA

Does the CRT have a lump-on-a-rope too? BLEEEECH!!!!!!!!! I may just avoid that Bondi Blue (?) POS I spotted in that case!

Click to expand...

AH I had a feeling you were talking about a CRT, whereas Anonymous Freak's "booger" is an LCD. Does your quarry look like this?

'cause that's a 17"er. (16" viewable, so easily mistaken for a 15"er I guess) Nice specs, too; hardly a "POS", with that Mitsubishi Diamondtron tube and all. I'd grab it. If it's working that is.

THAT'S THE ONE! Was it only made in B&W G-3 Blue? It'd only be a POS IF it's a freakin' CRT with a lump-onna-rope! Does it have an ACTUAL, real life, honest to goodness VGA port or the usual bogforsaken Apple connector . . . erm . . . umm . . . ditziness!

BTW, I've always loved that Graphite/Clear CRT, but unless it's for a very specific Mac, for a VERY specific purpose, I'd NEVER spend the greenbacks for the Jobsian "pretty factor." The Woz Rocks (and dances!) the other half of that duo . . .

Ah, offtopic again ... where where we ... ADB ... ADC ... what comes next?

Click to expand...

ADD?

ALWAYS! That and a couple more learning "disabilities" . . . whatever! Never slowed ME DOWN! }

I was gonna' come back with "XYZ," but thats an ooolllddd joke! :

. . . and yours was funnier! :lol:

If it was a studio LCD with the composite and vga ports, get it. They are probably one of the most rare of all of the Apple screens.

Sounds good, I'll keep a lookout.

#14 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 06:14 68kMLA

THAT'S THE ONE! Was it only made in B&W G-3 Blue? It'd only be a POS IF it's a freakin' CRT with a lump-onna-rope! Does it have an ACTUAL, real life, honest to goodness VGA port or the usual bogforsaken Apple connector . . . erm . . . umm . . . ditziness!

IIRC it was only made in Blueberry, to match the B&W G3. However, you'll be pleased to know that it shipped with a standard VGA connector, which makes sense since the G3s had VGA ports.

#15 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 06:27 68kMLA

I'm rolling my honkin' big ADB Kensington Turbo Mouse trackball around with my fingertips and typing on my black Apple Extended Keyboard II, both attached to my new Cube via an iMate ADB-USB converter.

My DA abhors the iMate! I thought it was a good idea, but maybe it's the iMate that abhors KVM setups . . . :-/

I too have a fair collection of ADB accessories, from pointing devices and drawing tablets to joysticks, gamepads, and even a wireless IR keyboard/ball combo

A friend gave me an ADB wireless Mouse (along w/TWO of those Kensington MongoBalls) but I've never heard of a wireless ADB KBD! I hope I can find my KeyStone ADB-PS2 converter from The Silicon Valley Bus Company then I can switch the DA/HP_Mini pair to a USB KVM/USB Wireless KBD/Mouse and use the PS2 wireless rig for the PowerDuo/APD combo! [

] ]'>

Also, may I add, LONG LIVE RS-422 !!

HEH! notice my post above and the new thread title! [

] ]'>

#16 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 06:32 68kMLA

Wallstreet PDQ / portable version of the last of the ADB Macs!

Click to expand...

What's a Wallstreet PDQ?

Click to expand...

It's just the second Wallstreet model series (the models with L2 cache)

Thanks, NOW I know what to look for!

#17 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 06:40 68kMLA

Does the CRT have a lump-on-a-rope too? BLEEEECH!!!!!!!!! I may just avoid that Bondi Blue (?) POS I spotted in that case!

Click to expand...

Nah, the 17" CRT has an inbuilt power supply - best of luck finding a working one though, I remember these monitors had a *lot* of problems back in the day.

Again, GOT VGA? If not, it's untestable, AND IF the price reflects such, I'll still snag it for its Dual Usefulness . . .

. . . my plastic fish are yearning for a new home! }

#18 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 08:15 68kMLA

What's a Wallstreet PDQ?

Click to expand...

It's just the second Wallstreet model series (the models with L2 cache)

Click to expand...

Thanks, NOW I know what to look for!

Actually the Wallstreet 250(83 bus) and 292(83 bus) models had 1MB L2. the PDQ 266(66 bus) and 300(66 bus) had 1MB L2 as well. It was the 233(66bus) WallStreet that had no L2 and the 233(66bus) PDQ had 512KB L2.

WS came with 2GB HDD, PDQ came with 2, 4, 6.

Aside from that I dunno.. Rage LT vs Rage Pro LT?

Really, may as well go for 292 WallStreet over a 300Mhz PDQ because of the bus speed if you want the best of the best.

#19 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 12:34 68kMLA

THAT'S THE ONE! Was it only made in B&W G-3 Blue? It'd only be a POS IF it's a freakin' CRT with a lump-onna-rope! Does it have an ACTUAL, real life, honest to goodness VGA port or the usual bogforsaken Apple connector . . . erm . . . umm . . . ditziness!

Click to expand...

IIRC it was only made in Blueberry, to match the B&W G3. However, you'll be pleased to know that it shipped with a standard VGA connector, which makes sense since the G3s had VGA ports.

Later models were also colored Graphite, to match the first G4s.

Some of these suffer from flyback failure. If you are purchasing one, test it first for at least 3 minutes by connecting it to a VGA source. Any popping noises or sudden squeezes/zoom effects in the tube should disqualify the purchase. I wind up recycling 2 out of every 5 of these displays I get due to the flyback.

#20 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 16:00 68kMLA

What's a Wallstreet PDQ?

Click to expand...

It's just the second Wallstreet model series (the models with L2 cache)

Click to expand...

Thanks, NOW I know what to look for!

Click to expand...

Actually . . . . . . 292(83 bus) models had 1MB L2. . . . . . .

WS came with 2GB HDD, PDQ came with 2, 4, 6.

Aside from that I dunno.. Rage LT vs Rage Pro LT?

Really, may as well go for 292 WallStreet over a 300Mhz PDQ because of the bus speed if you want the best of the best.

WOW! Asking for help from my comrades really IS COOL! [

] ]'>

I'm not current on the PCI Bus Macs, but if anybody has questions about the NuBus Era Macs & PBs, I'm your guy! I think I've got most of the requisite books published by Apple and I've delved VERY DEEPLY into that particular Ancient Architecture!

Gotta get to work!

ciao!

#21 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 17:00 68kMLA

Would that town be Lizard Lick? I'm in between Raleigh and Wake Forest in the boonies myself.

Click to expand...

Lizard Lick?????????? :?:
Nope, "The Peak of Good Living" right next door to the most malignant tumor on the face of the Triangle. CARY!

Lizard Lick is one of those one-traffic-light towns northeast of Raleigh. Actually it might be a crossroad instead of a town. I'll have to take some pictures. Reminds me of a street in Knightdale that is now called Old Knight Rd. It used to be called Jackass Rd. Liked the old name better...

I agree completely with your description of Cary. While I don't live there I have heard horror stories....

#22 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 17:19 68kMLA

With the Wallstreet the processors are interchangeable and the processor module controls the bus speed. You also occasionally see a Wallstreet with an aftermarket 500mhz processor for sale.

Someday have to investigate why although the processor modules from the tray loading iMac and the wallstreet are physically interchangeable, they won't function in the other machine.

#23 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 - 20:19 68kMLA

PDQ? /I'm not familiar with that designation/variation.

Just so's you know, it stands for Pretty D___ Quick. :lol:

With the Wallstreet the processors are interchangeable and the processor module controls the bus speed

So if you drop a 292 CPU into a PDQ, you get the 83MHz bus and the better video? Or would there be other components in the 66MHz models that choke on the higher bus speed? I guess Mark Schreier would have the answer to that.

By the way, avoid the 13.3" LCDs on the Wallstreets; they are made of lose and fail. Get the active matrix 14" if you can.

You also get SCSI, ADB, Ethernet and Localtalk, built-in support for a second spanned display, and two Cardbus slots. One of them is a Zoomed Video slot, which allows you to input composite PAL/NTSC video direct to the GPU and screen without going through the CPU. You need a special card for that, which I've forgotten the name of for the moment. IIRC, there's also a DVD decoding card which takes advantage of that feature.

Add a USB/Firewire card and you have the perfect low-footprint bridge between the Old and New worlds. It's the Beige G3 of laptops

Does the CRT have a lump-on-a-rope too? / GOT VGA?

Hey I did give you a link to the specs above, and all the other Apple monitors listed on everymac.

#24 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 02:33 68kMLA

Does your Rev. 2 B&W still have the good old fashioned serial port/modem port

Yep. I was just looking at that port the other day thinking "Now what am I going to use *that* for?". Guess I could plug in the 56k for old times sake! lol

Yep, I've got almost every package I've ever bought, each in its own Zip-Loc bag w/docs, distribution media and the informative parts of the boxes cut & flattened in the bag for ID purposes.

Ah, a fellow preservationist! I still have all of my boxes too, lovingly unfolded and flattened in a tote somewhere. :lol:

Wallstreet PDQ / portable version of the last of the ADB Macs!

Click to expand...

What's a Wallstreet PDQ?

I'm slow to the response party as it seems some fellow MLA'ers answered this one. Lots of good information in this thread. I was unaware of the bus speed differences between the original Wallstreets and the PDQ's.

#25 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 03:25 68kMLA

serial port/modem port

Click to expand...

Yep. I was just looking at that port the other day thinking "Now what am I going to use *that* for?"

There are loads of peripherals for OS 9 that interface with the serial port, collect some! [

] ]'>

Ah, a fellow preservationist!

Preservationists RULE!

I'm slow to the response party as it seems some fellow MLA'ers answered this one. Lots of good information in this thread. I was unaware of the bus speed differences between the original Wallstreets and the PDQ's.

THAT's the joy of starting one of these little parties! Information just oozes outta' the woodwork here at the 68kMLA. If we'd been STRICTLY ON TOPIC - whatever the heck THAT might be - we wouldn't have gotten half the info that's surfaced in this thread. Let's keep it going, it's those little offhand comments that keep the troops moving!

Thank you very much for getting the Wallstreet ball rolling, that's the important, initial step, comrade!

#26 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 03:40 68kMLA

My 13" 292Mhz Wallstreet acts up once every few months for a second and thats it (video), it is probably the fastest stock Wallstreet made because of the 83Mhz bus speed. The second generation Wallstreets were the ones that could drop video down to 640x480 and 800x600 if needed (a bit blocky at 640x480).

The original Beige G3 systems also could do 83Mhz bus speed while later ones were stuck at 66Mhz, kind of a step backwards.

One of these days I will get a ADB drawing pad, all I have now are keyboards, trackballs, joysticks, and mice (and a stack of adb dongles).

The local recycler has a Beige G3 (233 I think) stock tower for $20, not sure I will bother getting it since I have one (running at 466 currently).

There is something cool about beige macs, I like my B&W's but thats around the time Apple went trendy with form over function.

#27 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 07:15 68kMLA

The second generation Wallstreets were the ones that could drop video down to 640x480 and 800x600 if needed (a bit blocky at 640x480).

It did not expand the lower resolutions to fit the display, it just displayed the resolutions using only one real pixel per one visible pixel and had massive black borders around the sides. Sure it was not blocky or fuzzy but it was tiny.It is nice that it could at least use smaller resolutions but they were pretty annoying to use. Things like StarCraft were quite lame scrunched that small and some games did not work at all for some reason.

#28 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 07:42 68kMLA

Yeah, I remember back in 1999 I went to an Apple Roadshow event they had here, where they used to demo the new stuff that had recently come out (in this case, it was the slot load iMacs, the Power Mac G4, the iBook, with AirPort, and Mac OS 9), anyway they had a 14" Wallstreet running a PowerPoint presentation on a projector, and of course in order to do so, they had to set the display to 800x600, and I remember thinking how horrible it would be to use at that resolution.

#29 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 12:49 68kMLA

It did not expand the lower resolutions to fit the display, it just displayed the resolutions using only one real pixel per one visible pixel and had massive black borders around the sides.

You must be thinking about the original Wallstreets because the rev 2 models did fit the whole screen in 640x480 and 800x600 modes on the LCD (you were stuck with 1024x768 on the original).

#30 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 19:44 68kMLA

There is something cool about beige macs, I like my B&W's but thats around the time Apple went trendy with form over function.

That'd be the effect of the woz's idiot, blue jeans/designer t-shirt wearin' partner coming back without a REAL COMPUTER GUY (read:the woz, obviously [

] ]'> ) to keep said idiot in line. I know he ostensibly saved the company with such gimmicky computers as the iMac & Cube (?) etc, but those products were YEARS in development, long before the (volatile) steve brought his (miserable failure) NeXT technology back to Apple.

El Steevo, never liked beige and barely tolerated platinum, add that to the most anally retentive form over function designer extant, and you've got a computer company living off such NON-COMPUTER $-Cows as iPods, iTunes, and most recently iPhones.

Don't even START to remind me about convergence, I'm WELL aware of it, but the Open Source Steam-Roller is going to make an abrupt turn south immediately after "visiting" Redmond and a certain absurd dwelling place!

IMHO, of course . . . }

. . . to get back on topic . . . :

. . . I'm glad so many of my comrades have come together to share info, stories, wants, needs & outrageous plans/desires with me in this attempt to create the most perfect OS 9.X - ADB/SerialMac Escape Pod from the harsh world of Windows & Feline foo-fooery . . . [

}

BTW, ubuntu, side comments AND SUBJECT MATTER are MORE THAN WELCOME IN THIS THREAD! }

#31 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 19:59 68kMLA

THAT'S THE ONE! / VGA port??

Click to expand...

IIRC it was only made in Blueberry / it shipped with a standard VGA connector

Click to expand...

Later models were also colored Graphite, to match the first G4s.

Some of these suffer from flyback failure. If you are purchasing one, test it first for at least 3 minutes by connecting it to a VGA source. Any popping noises or sudden squeezes/zoom effects in the tube should disqualify the purchase. I wind up recycling 2 out of every 5 of these displays I get due to the flyback.

Thanks for the troubleshooting guide, just copied the quotes above into a WP Document to throw onscreen during testing.

Thanks, comrades, it'll even help with dickering over price! }

#32 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 22:45 68kMLA

I like my B&W's but thats around the time Apple went trendy with form over function.

Click to expand...

/ such gimmicky computers as the iMac & Cube (?) etc, but those products were YEARS in development, long before the (volatile) steve brought his (miserable failure) NeXT technology back to Apple.

The iMac was the right product at the right time.

- Inexpensive price, powerful processor - but it had no PCI slots, so it didn't cannibalize G3 sales.

- Joe Sixpack home users rarely use PCI slots - the iMac already had Ethernet onboard, USB took care of almost everything else.

- The colors got people to notice Macs. It was a huge refresh, these machines look different, they are different. Think Different and buy one.

A lot of the work on the iMac was already started with Steve Jobs came aboard, so it can not be entirely attributed to him.

The Cube is a different story:

- Too expensive. Tried to be as powerful as a tower G4 in a tiny package, but most people would rather have the bigger cheaper G4.

The Mac mini got it right - small size, small price. That's an ENTIRE computer in there - and still pretty powerful (but not as much as a G5 or Mac Pro).

#33 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 23:50 68kMLA

You must be thinking about the original Wallstreets because the rev 2 models did fit the whole screen in 640x480 and 800x600 modes on the LCD (you were stuck with 1024x768 on the original).

Thy why does my originally 266MHz w/66MHz bus PowerBook G3 that I later dropped a 300MHz CPU into keep the res 1:1 with the physical pixels?(black borders)Come to think of it I am not sure if I ever tried lowering the res in anything other than a couple games that it played very badly.

To be fair I have no idea if the logicboard was ever replaced. All I know is that it came to me with a 266MHz CPU and 4GB HDD so matches PDQ specs more than WS specs..

I could prop the display up on something and grab a bootable OS 9 CD and see what video chipset it has then tear it down and check for logicboard model number so we could see if Apple ever mixed boards or parts on the boards between the WS/PDQ.

#34 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 03:20 68kMLA

he ostensibly saved the company with such gimmicky computers as the iMac & Cube (?) etc, but those products were YEARS in development, long before the (volatile) steve brought his (miserable failure) NeXT technology back to Apple.

Click to expand...

The iMac was the right product at the right time.

I couldn't agree more . . . about the iMac, it's just that I CAN'T STAND THAT ARROGANT PISSANT! >

- Inexpensive price, powerful processor - but it had no PCI slots, so it didn't cannibalize G3 sales.- Joe Sixpack home users rarely use PCI slots - the iMac already had Ethernet onboard, USB took care of almost everything else.

- The colors got people to notice Macs. It was a huge refresh, these machines look different, they are different. Think Different and buy one.

Agreed!

A lot of the work on the iMac was already started with Steve Jobs came aboard, so it can not be entirely attributed to him.

erm . . . I think that that's what I said! [

] ]'> . . . but the black clad bozo tried to take ALL the credit!

IMHO, of course! [

] ]'>

#35 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 03:56 68kMLA

Well, I'm back from behind enemy lines again and I brought back a Blueberry Bundle, another MordorSoft Ergonomic KBD, to complete the pair I need for yet another KBD HackAthon . . .

. . . maybe I'll farm out the PCB production and cut all the little boards apart after one big board is fabbed . . .

. . . like they did with chips back in the early (before recorded history) VLSI era. :I

Also snagged a nifty Dell PII Clone with Windows 95 on it, of all things! That's what the sticker said . . .

. . . but it also said it was worth $25-$50! :lol:

Mostly I got it for the ubuntuGIMPboxHack because it's got a beige CD-ROM Burner AND a beige internal ZIP drive!

Testing will follow later, after I blow the dust hippos outta' that FILTHY POS!

I'm letting the Studio Display cool off before doing further testing . . . but I have a sneaking suspicion that my plastic fish have found their new abode. The monitor is drop dead gorgeous, there's NO DIRT or DUST AT ALL, inside the case or even much on the outside. Didn't these thing's innards attract dirt like a magnet?

The hardwired VGA Cable had never been unwrapped and apart from a few scratches on the top edges, probably picked up at the thrift shop, it looks to be N.I.B. condition and the picture quality is just awesome. but after about five minutes I get a little antsy and every time I try to fiddle with the resolution it goes blank and I can sometimes get it back up again for a bit, but methinks there's something rotten in the state of the blueberry patch.

Whatever, I got lotsa' neat hackable parts, maybe even a "working" '95'd PII ("working" and '95 were seldom seen in the same paragraph, much less in the same sentence!) and . . .

. . . change back from my $30.00 BILL! [

] ]'>

#36 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 07:42 68kMLA

So if you drop a 292 CPU into a PDQ, you get the 83MHz bus and the better video? Or would there be other components in the 66MHz models that choke on the higher bus speed? I guess Mark Schreier would have the answer to that.

My first wallstreet was a 233 mhz with no cache and a 66mhz bus. A friend gave me a 292 mhz processor and after that I also had an 83 mhz bus speed. Still had the crappy video and 12 inch screen but it sure was faster.

#37 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 20:43 68kMLA

Testing will follow later, after I blow the dust hippos outta' that FILTHY POS!

Did I say dust hippos? Definitely LARGER than THAT! I've NEVER seen such a MASSIVE cloud of dust exit a computer like this. 8-o

But it does boot into '95, the CD works in read mode and the ZIP drive wanted to reformat a Mac Zip, so all's good so far on that front.

That BlueBerry thing is lookin' more & more like plastic fish housing every minute . . . >

#38 Sun, 13 Sep 2009 - 01:45 68kMLA

Lizard Lick?????????? :?:

A street sign about 1.5 miles from the 'intersection' - sorry about the lighting. Sometimes taking pictures with a cell phone sucks...

#39 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 06:22 68kMLA

Did I say dust hippos? Definitely LARGER than THAT! I've NEVER seen such a MASSIVE cloud of dust exit a computer like this. 8-o
But it does boot into '95, the CD works in read mode and the ZIP drive wanted to reformat a Mac Zip, so all's good so far on that front.

Just for kicks, I tried to choke the WinTel sucker (POS) to death with the ubuntu FULL distrib CD, it actually got the background up and what looked like top and bottom (blank of course) menu bars before . . .

. . . dropping as dead as if it had been pole-axed! HeHeHeh!!!!! }

That BlueBerry thing is lookin' more & more like plastic fish housing every minute . . . >

That Blueberry, Tripod Mounted CRT might not be quite ready for the gutting knife yet, I get a full five minutes out of it before I ever see a jitter and then I've only seen one pop/zoom event/thingie after it had been running for over 15 minutes.

Once I get a B&W G-3 (none too soon, due to $ constraints) or its temporary substitute online as a plotter server, I can just set the screen to blank after 3 or 4 minutes, it doesn't take long to get a job rolling, so I don't need the monitor any longer than that.

Whatcha think, gang?

#40 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 08:54 68kMLA

woz's idiot, blue jeans/designer t-shirt wearin' partner coming back without a REAL COMPUTER GUY (read:the woz, obviously [] ]'> ) to keep said idiot in line.

There were plenty of real computer guys at NeXT, and he brought them all with him.

(miserable failure) NeXT technology

Err, beg to differ. From a market penetration point of view, certainly, but as technology? NeXTSTEP was streets ahead of anything else on the market, especially as a development environment. And even the market failure could be partly blamed on the non-compete contract Jobs had to sign when leaving Apple.

IMHO, integrating NeXTSTEP is what saved Apple in the long run. The iMac was a reprieve from immediate doom, but porting the best available Unix development environment is what saved the platform. A cool Unix dev system attracts the alpha geeks, the alpha geeks build the coolest software, the cool software attracts the customers.

I don't know if you know this, but OS X is kind of awesome.

NON-COMPUTER $-Cows as iPods, iTunes, and most recently iPhones.

Sorry - how is an iPhone or an iPod Touch not a real computer?

#41 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 10:35 68kMLA

That Blueberry, Tripod Mounted CRT might not be quite ready for the gutting knife yet, I get a full five minutes out of it before I ever see a jitter and then I've only seen one pop/zoom event/thingie after it had been running for over 15 minutes.
Once I get a B&W G-3 (none too soon, due to $ constraints) or its temporary substitute online as a plotter server, I can just set the screen to blank after 3 or 4 minutes, it doesn't take long to get a job rolling, so I don't need the monitor any longer than that.

Whatcha think, gang?

The pop/zooms will only get worse and worse as the flyback degrades. Eventually, the monitor will perform several of these "arcs" per minute. This should be considered a hazardous state and the monitor immediately retired if it gets that bad.

#42 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 19:22 68kMLA

What's a flyback? (transformer?) Why should they be so hard to replace? This POS will be MINT . . .

. . . after I polish the scratches off the top edges of case!

#43 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 19:31 68kMLA

Since we're supposedly a family/youth friendly military organization . . . :

. . . .and, as a mod, I've been setting a very bad example of late . . . :I

. . . let me suggest a new acronym for the 68Kmla LEXICON . . . [

] ]'>

POOM . . . Piece Of Organic Material! [

] ]'>

#44 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 20:52 68kMLA

You must be thinking about the original Wallstreets because the rev 2 models did fit the whole screen in 640x480 and 800x600 modes on the LCD (you were stuck with 1024x768 on the original).

Click to expand...

Thy why does my originally 266MHz w/66MHz bus PowerBook G3 that I later dropped a 300MHz CPU into keep the res 1:1 with the physical pixels?(black borders)Come to think of it I am not sure if I ever tried lowering the res in anything other than a couple games that it played very badly.

To be fair I have no idea if the logicboard was ever replaced. All I know is that it came to me with a 266MHz CPU and 4GB HDD so matches PDQ specs more than WS specs..

You probably have a rev 1 board (they will work with the 66mhz bus speed chips). I think the originals have rage LT video chips while rev2 have rage 3d (might be a difference in VRAM size as well). The originals had sloped plastic on both sides toward the clasp, rev2 had a cliff on the top section.

Many people swapped parts and displays over the years so you have no idea what exactly you have and if it is factory stock.

#45 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 21:55 68kMLA

What's a flyback? (transformer?) Why should they be so hard to replace? This POS will be MINT . . .

. . . after I polish the scratches off the top edges of case!

The flyback transformer (FBT), also called a 'line output transformer' (LOPT), is a special transformer which is used to generate high voltage (HV) signals at a relatively high frequency.

They can be replaced, but be warned you need to replace the faulty unit with one identical in spec or nastys will happen, also since they are the generator of some seriously wicked HF High Voltages (20 - 50 KV) they can flatten you before you can say snot

Often times replacements are more expensive than the screen, and usually not an option unless you happen to have another sitting around with the exact same transformer and something else wrong (ie bad tube vacuum)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_transformer

#46 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 01:40 68kMLA

just look on kiji for a nother imac, just plop in the hard drive and done, no changing transformers, if you do somthing wrong you are DEAD

I just got a g4 and that replaced my g3 imac that is dying

#47 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 01:58 68kMLA

The flyback transformer (FBT), also called a 'line output transformer' (LOPT), is a special transformer which is used to generate high voltage (HV) signals at a relatively high frequency.

They can be replaced, but be warned you need to replace the faulty unit with one identical in spec or nastys will happen, also since they are the generator of some seriously wicked HF High Voltages (20 - 50 KV) they can flatten you before you can say snot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_transformer

Thanks for the link, and the warnings about safety and price, guys! I've worked on High Voltage Systems before, but I think I'll wait for TomLee to chime in before making any final decisions.

I can usually source even ancient Apple Replacement Parts that are not normally available to the general public . . .

. . . because I don't ask very often and only for a part whose replacement is VERY labor intensive. [

] ]'>

#48 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 06:32 68kMLA

The Flyback is not a direct "Apple Replacement Part". The only thing close, would be the entire analog board as a service part. Any old stock has probably been depleted or recycled by now.

Additionally, since this is the main failure for these displays, most of the "bad" ones you'll come across have the exact same issue. The tube almost never goes bad, unless the display is dropped or otherwise damaged.

#49 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 19:54 68kMLA

The flyback transformer (FBT), also called a 'line output transformer' (LOPT), is a special transformer which is used to generate high voltage (HV) signals at a relatively high frequency.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, and the warnings about safety and price, guys! I've worked on High Voltage Systems before, but I think I'll wait for TomLee to chime in before making any final decisions.

Click to expand...

Well, I'll just have to call a couple of EEs I know who've been involved in SERIOUS MacHackin' since the 128! [

] ]'>

The Flyback is not a direct "Apple Replacement Part". The only thing close, would be the entire analog board as a service part. Any old stock has probably been depleted or recycled by now.
Additionally, since this is the main failure for these displays, most of the "bad" ones you'll come across have the exact same issue. The tube almost never goes bad, unless the display is dropped or otherwise damaged.

NoPro, I can probably source/or get a spec & source for the requisite parts . . .

. . . they may even have a usable analog board lying around! [

] ]'>

_______________________________________________________

Come to think of it, has anyone ever researched the availability of newer analog boards from other mfrs. This particular CRT had to have been used by several mfrs. One of their ABs might be of a usable size/shape etc. What was the last monitor mfd with this CRT? [

] ]'>

p.s.mode>_______________________________________________________

#50 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 23:22 68kMLA

I believe it is a Mitsubishi Diamondtron CRT, but I don't know if you can just yank one out of a Mitsubishi model or not. And again - there's a good chance that the Mitsubishi has the same problem!

The most common cause of failure of these blue displays (and most likely the Mitsubishi sibilings) is the flyback.

#51 Thu, 17 Sep 2009 - 00:17 68kMLA

the best way is to look at the thing and get anything written on it

#52 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 - 01:21 68kMLA

Hello!

Ahh, a person after my own heart! Here is the state of my current "Mac OS 9 Machine"...

Blue & White G3 (revision 2 motherboard)

PowerLogix PowerForce G3/1.0GHz with 1MB L2 CPU Upgrade

1 Gig matched Ram

3dfx Voodoo 5 video Card (64 megs)

PCI SATA controller with 320 GIG Sata Drive attached (for files)

250 GIG ATA Drive 7200 rpm (OS boot drive)

Wired 4 DVD PCI Dvd playback card

Creative Soundblaster Live audio card

Pioneer Superdrive

Matias Tactile Pro Keyboard

I have pieced this thing together over about a year or so and I really love the hell out of it. The Voodoo 5 is a kick in the ass with old games, and with the PowerLogix upgrade, you can control your CPU speed via a software control panel which make playing old game GREAT and EASY since you can just dial down the speed if the game plays too fast! I also have a great time with streaming internet audio piped through the Creative Soundblaster live. This card got some pretty crappy reviews (mostly due to a lack of OS X drivers), but if you get the last software update and use it under OS 9 it is a real fun experience with lots of audio tweak options. And lastly, the Wired 4 DVD card will output your dvds in surround sound if you hook it up to a compatible receiver. Pretty slick for OS 9 huh!

Is it just me or don't the old machines that have been upgraded like this one just SCREAM in OS 9 compared to the new Macs in OS X?

Like I said I really love this machine!

Anyways, just my two cents. Have a good one!!!

AdeptRapier