Thread
Apple lisa repair.
Ok I have asked at the lisa list but I will also ask here (68kmla has always been so helpful) so if you are part of the lisa list I am sorry you have to read this twice. I have been working on a lisa 2/5 I have had for a while as a
hobby. I have not touched it in a while and lately I have been in the
mood to repair it. The condition it is in now is a whole lot better
then it was when I found it. When the power button is pressed it
lights up, so does the disk drive light. I also can hear a High pitch
sound from the power supply, (could be the high voltage circuit for
the screen I suppose). No video on screen but does seem to display
short lines on screen in several rows, kind of like
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
and they are moving upward. I have looked in as many documents as I
could find to pinpoint this and have not done so. today when I was
looking I noticed that there were some capacitors that looked like
they were cut from the I/O. I know some are left off on purpose but
these could have been taken out by the person that owned it before me
(an artsy type that tore apart computers by the look of it so it would
not be surprising) I also have no Hard drive for is or keyboard/
mouse, and I do not know if that will effect it's ability to display.
(I would not be surprised if I knew at one time and forgot I have put
this project off for a while)
hobby. I have not touched it in a while and lately I have been in the
mood to repair it. The condition it is in now is a whole lot better
then it was when I found it. When the power button is pressed it
lights up, so does the disk drive light. I also can hear a High pitch
sound from the power supply, (could be the high voltage circuit for
the screen I suppose). No video on screen but does seem to display
short lines on screen in several rows, kind of like
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
_____ _____ _____ _____ _____
and they are moving upward. I have looked in as many documents as I
could find to pinpoint this and have not done so. today when I was
looking I noticed that there were some capacitors that looked like
they were cut from the I/O. I know some are left off on purpose but
these could have been taken out by the person that owned it before me
(an artsy type that tore apart computers by the look of it so it would
not be surprising) I also have no Hard drive for is or keyboard/
mouse, and I do not know if that will effect it's ability to display.
(I would not be surprised if I knew at one time and forgot I have put
this project off for a while)
This might sound like a stupid question but have you tried adjusting the screen controls? From memory I had to pretty much strip the machine down to get to them (as well as keeping the 'system open' switches pressed) but the display on my machine was totally shot to pieces but a quick tweak here and there and it now works a treat. Could be worth trying
I will look into it, I doubt it though since the display I was using was though an external cable so I adjusted the external monitor to get that picture up. What does a lisa do without the keyboard/mouse/HD/disk when you turn it on? I still do not know if my I/O board is complete. for example the R41 resistor appears to have been cut off the board compared to the other factory left off parts. (forgive my spelling errors I am horrible at English and have not slept in a while 
) I do know that the cpu board is most likely to work since I have two of them I can switch out and they both do the same thing so unless they both have the same problem its not there.
) I do know that the cpu board is most likely to work since I have two of them I can switch out and they both do the same thing so unless they both have the same problem its not there.The Lisa does a self test when first started. It will fail if it cannot find a keyboard or mouse.
The internal HDD is essentially a ProFile. It's lights operate the same way. Flashing during initial startup self test and steady on test pass.
That was part of the Lisa 1 -> Lisa 2 upgrade and shouldn't cause any problems.
I'm not familiar with the screen you describe, so I can't help you there.
Good luck resurrecting the old girl.
Regards,
Macdownunder
I thought one of the chips on the cpu board looked beat up so on a whim I took it out and switched it with two from my spare cpu board. the one I took out had two bent pins on it (do not know if this was intentional from the last person) and now it boots and with the help of the lisalist have figured out it past the self on test and it needs a keyboard and mouse but now I have to fix a new problem the crt is not lighting up at all. Thanks to several guys on the forum here (special thanks to wally for his extensive knowledge and help) I fixed a old tv so I am a bit more familiar with the crt now. If I can find my neon tube to test the HV and if that does not work I will test that the wires going to the video board are getting power. I have tried adjusting the internal contrast and all the knobs on the back with no luck, I don't think I saw the picture tube filament light up either.
cool thanks we will see today (I hope) to open it up and do some tests. Less then 24 hours after running it I discharged the crt and not even the faintest zap, although they do not always do this it just seems to fuel my speculation of the HV not working, but we will see. I will be removing the video board and checking the parts on it. You know the best way to check the regulator and I going to have to test while powered on?
Good place to maybe look for a keyboard and mouse is http://www.sunrem.com/
I got a keyboard a couple of years back from them and, as I remember it, they didn't actually have it listed but a quick email just to ask anyway came up positive. £80 shipped to the UK wasn't too bad...I suppose
I got a keyboard a couple of years back from them and, as I remember it, they didn't actually have it listed but a quick email just to ask anyway came up positive. £80 shipped to the UK wasn't too bad...I suppose
I thought they had sold off all there stuff I tried going there this morning and there site was unresponsive. just the top of the site with the name and links. it used to also forward to another website http://www.cherokeedata.com/ a while back when I went there.
ugg the one other place I thought I could get one was a bit overpriced for me (IE over half of the price I have seen lisa's for) I guess I will keep looking. I did find some great High res pictures of the keyboard pcb incase anyone needs to see them http://www.kbdbabel.org/lisa/ I guess they have them to use in there any keyboard to any computer adapter they are making and they may decide to support the apple lisa (that would be strange but it does run off 5vdc just like a usb one).
I actually wrote him earlier before his auction and decided to wait, I do not want to pay $71 for a keyboard with shipping and then have to fix it. specially if tis the intel chip with the rom on it. But if I can not find another one in a while I may resort to one. I have gotten other parts from him that have worked out great so I know he will package them well.
I just wrote him back to see if I could get one with a working rom, but NF keys. I may be more willing to do that much If I just have to fix the keys, but the rom would be hard to repair. also asked if the reference cards were included.
wow he gets back to me fast, he siad he would get one with NF keys and a working rom and a set of reference cards! so I think I may go for it,
wow he gets back to me fast, he siad he would get one with NF keys and a working rom and a set of reference cards! so I think I may go for it,
well I ordered a non working one, I am getting one with just keys that need repaired (foam replaced and clean the contacts) so I do not have to worry about the rom not working. and some reference cards. it should be easy to do with the web pages I have found to help with lisa keyboard repairs.
I got my keyboard today it looks to be in great condition. Is there a program I can run that will let me check the keys to see what one's I need to fix without having a hard drive yet? I do now have a mouse so I should be able to run anything I need too (Given the mouse/keyboard ports still work).
well after fixing all that stuff It seems the power supply might have died again. Its making the clicking sound it made a long time ago when I first got it I then replaced some caps and it worked fine, so I am guessing some more of the caps are bad. I did not have them before but I may have some of the replacements now. and the clicking is defiantly coming from the power supply.
crisis adverted. a couple of caps switched out from the power supply seemed to fix it. and I got to the start up from area and could move the mouse so the mouse is working!
UPDATE! I took the top of and used my fingers since I know some of the keys need "refoaming" and entered service mode and got it to let me type out a bit and all the keys seem to work (Electronically) Now I need to put new foam on. The mylar disks look a bit worn is (Some are flaking the metal parts off) is this going to be a big deal when I transfer them to new foam?
UPDATE! I took the top of and used my fingers since I know some of the keys need "refoaming" and entered service mode and got it to let me type out a bit and all the keys seem to work (Electronically) Now I need to put new foam on. The mylar disks look a bit worn is (Some are flaking the metal parts off) is this going to be a big deal when I transfer them to new foam?
I am going to build an IDEfile (http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/patrick/idefile.htm), it sounds like it might be fun to build something like that. Someone on the lisalist built one so I know I can at least ask them for help if need be.
I replaced the foam in a Lisa keyboard not too long ago. I did all of the keys and it was quite time consuming, but in the end they all worked fine and it was worth it.
I used some 1/8" thick foam mounting squares from a craft shop and trimmed them to fit. Ideally, if you could find something that was precut to the approximate size of the disks, that would help quite a bit.
The old foam just disintegrated while I worked with it. I used an Exacto knife to scrape as much of the old foam off of the mylar and plastic disks. It isn't necessary to get them absolutely clean.
Good luck! (Though it sounds like your power supply is a more pressing issue.)
I used some 1/8" thick foam mounting squares from a craft shop and trimmed them to fit. Ideally, if you could find something that was precut to the approximate size of the disks, that would help quite a bit.
The old foam just disintegrated while I worked with it. I used an Exacto knife to scrape as much of the old foam off of the mylar and plastic disks. It isn't necessary to get them absolutely clean.
Good luck! (Though it sounds like your power supply is a more pressing issue.)
it is I wish I could find the pesky 390uf 200v caps locally. (the only electrolytic caps in the ps I have not replaced) and the closest I have are 470uf 200v.
Although I will need to buy some stuff for the idefile I am making, just etched my first board for this project and came out better then I had hopped although a bit off center from the other side.
Although I will need to buy some stuff for the idefile I am making, just etched my first board for this project and came out better then I had hopped
although a bit off center from the other side.ill be watching it if it does not get too $$, I do not have a job right now so money is tight but it is only a little ways away. I also have to re etch a new board the one I made like I said was off center but the holes were ok but to many leads I would have to fix because the holes broke them. so I will make a new board (And actually match it properly, last time I drilled something else and it screwed me up).
Then I have to figure out how to solder the stupid IC holders in (The bottom layer is easy but the top is a pain) I think I will try to find a fine tip for my soldering iron and get some solder that is thiner gauge so I can shove it in there.
Then I have to figure out how to solder the stupid IC holders in (The bottom layer is easy but the top is a pain) I think I will try to find a fine tip for my soldering iron and get some solder that is thiner gauge so I can shove it in there.
well it stopped working again (I have replaced every cap on the the power supply but the two massive ones) so I will try to find some replacements for them (390uf 200v) all of them seem to be way over priced. but I hope that will bring it back to life again.
I have not had a chance to repair the keyboard, still waiting for my self to fix the lisa.
I have just gotten the stuff to re-etch the IDEfile board. I hope this time I can line it up right so the holes match up. my last board messed up somehow and bubbled up and ruined the copper luckily radio shack exchanged it for a new one I have taught my self how to cover the copper traces on the old board with solder, I have also been using it to practice soldering the ic sockets in since it is a double sided board it will be hard to solder unless i link each hole with the opposite side with a small wire to ensure conductivity. it has help my though hole soldering skills as well they look more professional.
I have not had a chance to repair the keyboard, still waiting for my self to fix the lisa.
I have just gotten the stuff to re-etch the IDEfile board. I hope this time I can line it up right so the holes match up. my last board messed up somehow and bubbled up and ruined the copper luckily radio shack exchanged it for a new one
I have taught my self how to cover the copper traces on the old board with solder, I have also been using it to practice soldering the ic sockets in since it is a double sided board it will be hard to solder unless i link each hole with the opposite side with a small wire to ensure conductivity. it has help my though hole soldering skills as well they look more professional.just my luck the two I have taken apart have had the 470uf 200v ones in them, I was thinking of using these in series with a 100uf 200v to make an approximate of 370uf
small Update, after digging though my large collection of electronics I remembered seeing some 100uf 200v caps, So i will combine them with the 220uf 400v caps I have to make a replacement that is less then 20% off lets hope this fixes it.
small Update, after digging though my large collection of electronics I remembered seeing some 100uf 200v caps, So i will combine them with the 220uf 400v caps I have to make a replacement that is less then 20% off lets hope this fixes it.
im actually going to buy the profile talked to him yesterday about it, so that is awesome, the install disks will format the profile for me right? I know you can not do the low level format without the apple III.
I actually have been using this weather striping foam for the keys it is sticky on one side and seems to work well on the ones I have fixed already although I think I may have broke the caps lock though, but I have it kinda working, i think the pin inside used to have a spring in it and it must have shot across the room so now it does not want to click and stay down.
it is turning on now and the first keys fixed were the apple and s keys so I can boot to service mode and can test the keys that way. I also found some new tdk ds/dd unformatted disks 50pk for a bit over $20 with shipping. then I can make all the disks I need.
I still want to make my idefile and have a new pcb ready to etch and the holes all lined up well so this one should work.
I actually have been using this weather striping foam for the keys it is sticky on one side and seems to work well on the ones I have fixed already although I think I may have broke the caps lock though, but I have it kinda working, i think the pin inside used to have a spring in it and it must have shot across the room so now it does not want to click and stay down.
it is turning on now and the first keys fixed were the apple and s keys so I can boot to service mode and can test the keys that way. I also found some new tdk ds/dd unformatted disks 50pk for a bit over $20 with shipping. then I can make all the disks I need.
I still want to make my idefile and have a new pcb ready to etch and the holes all lined up well so this one should work.
well he did not mark the other thing i was buying so i was kinda doubting it and he read my last email about how I should pay and never responded. well I hope you are right and I can still get the profile, i was looking forward to having one, also I talked to vintagemicros about getting a replacement caps lock for the one I broke and he his going to get one for me he is such a nice guy and has been crucial to getting my lisa up and running.
well I got my board etched it looks amazing, before I etched it there were some lines that I could not draw on or carve out so I colored the whole thing in Just 5 little traced and will cut them a part from each other (or if that does not work i will add trace wires and cut all of them, in addition one or two traced suffered and died when etching but they are easily fixed, Not bad for a homemade etched board. Here are some pictures you can tell the ones connected together I mentioned are on the bottom left of the front but that is the only ugly part I have to fix!
Front
Back
Front
Back
thats what I figured and it would look more complete the lisa's with profiles on top always looked a bit more complete then ones without.
as far as the IDEfile I have to solder plate the whole board to prevent oxidizing and for the profile adapter socket It is the same one as an apple IIe keyboard socket so I am using one of these I plan to use as many reused parts as I can to cut costs since I am jobless atm.
as far as the IDEfile I have to solder plate the whole board to prevent oxidizing and for the profile adapter socket It is the same one as an apple IIe keyboard socket so I am using one of these I plan to use as many reused parts as I can to cut costs since I am jobless atm.
My blank disks came in and I got system 3.1 all the lisa apps and lisa workshop disks made. So we can only hope the profile will show up tomorrow and I can get this thing going. I did test the first system disk and it did not boot but after cleaning the drive out it booted right up, this drive still operates smoothly mechanically and it still has the felt pad unlike the 512k I had that needed a new felt pad and a oiling.
well it worked for a bit then the computer shut off. I was going to take out the PSU so I could get the computer back on, I bumped my homemade profile cable and it sparked and blew a cap in the profile. Anyway before that I did get the lisa os installed on the HD and started it. But I fixed both so we will see when I get a new cable and hope the HD did not die (when fixed the ready light still comes all the way on). here is a picture of it running LOS for the first time.
and the capacitor that popped.
and the capacitor that popped.
yeah I have several spares (Thanks to my huge collection of apple IIe's and parts. The same cap is in at least one type of apple psu for IIe's.) Switched it out and it fired right back up to solid ready light. Since I think it broke because of my homemade cable getting bumped and then shorting, Now I have to order a cable I do not know If I want a cheap parallel serial cable (then take pin 7 out) or a real apple profile cable. Either way I will have to wait for it to arrive before I can fully test the profile again.
well I finally got my power on today and everything on my lisa is working again (I had to repair the Profile install of LOS) but after a fresh install it started right up. I only have small adjustments such as a few keys and adjusting the video switches on the inside. The db25 cable I got seemed to work just fine after breaking pin 7 off.