Thread
Another IIci ROM hack
USB OTG no less.... how interesting.
AMAZING! I got to about page 16 or so and then ran out of breath. Oh well, I think I saw enough to be able to give you a big congradulation for the most amazing project ever! I would have ordered one of these SIMMs if it wasn't for the fact that my Performa hasn't got a slot for one (or, as the case may be, the slot hasn't been fitted...)!
Anyway, what is the currect status of the project (in terms of SIMM size, programming options, etc.)?
Finally, I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c52JQHVVqFM. I thought it might work well with your Mario startup chime! (I would agree that your version sounded better-this one's a bit out of tune
.) Maybe you should try making a custom ROM that would do a similar thing with the Mac's floppy drive?
Anyway, what is the currect status of the project (in terms of SIMM size, programming options, etc.)?
Finally, I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c52JQHVVqFM. I thought it might work well with your Mario startup chime! (I would agree that your version sounded better-this one's a bit out of tune
.) Maybe you should try making a custom ROM that would do a similar thing with the Mac's floppy drive?
Thanks! Yeah, it's a pretty crazy thread. I always love reading the first few pages where I'm constantly talking about how I'm nowhere near having a custom chime or any of that...and now we're way beyond that!
The current status of the project is as follows:
1) I have plenty of 2 MB SIMMs available for purchase
2) I have plenty of 8 MB SIMMs available for purchase
3) I have plenty of SIMM programmers available for purchase
Right now the SIMM programming software can write an image to the 2 MB or 8 MB SIMM and it automatically splits the data up between the four chips. It can also read an image back from the SIMM. I also have requests for only programming the first part of the chip (so the 7.5 MB ROM disk is left alone and only the 512 KB at the beginning is reprogrammed) and to allow for programming individual chips at a time, so you can use the 2 MB SIMM as a chip burner--these aren't done yet but I plan on it at some point.
Also, I have received a report that the SIMM programmer software doesn't behave entirely great in older PowerPC OS X versions -- it loses communication with the programmer board pretty easily. I plan on looking into that as well at some point in the future, but I can say for now it works pretty well on Windows and Intel Macs according to what everyone has told me and my own experience.
Haha, very nice find on the floppy drive song! That's cool! I personally don't have any plans to make music with the floppy drive ;-)
The current status of the project is as follows:
1) I have plenty of 2 MB SIMMs available for purchase
2) I have plenty of 8 MB SIMMs available for purchase
3) I have plenty of SIMM programmers available for purchase
Right now the SIMM programming software can write an image to the 2 MB or 8 MB SIMM and it automatically splits the data up between the four chips. It can also read an image back from the SIMM. I also have requests for only programming the first part of the chip (so the 7.5 MB ROM disk is left alone and only the 512 KB at the beginning is reprogrammed) and to allow for programming individual chips at a time, so you can use the 2 MB SIMM as a chip burner--these aren't done yet but I plan on it at some point.Also, I have received a report that the SIMM programmer software doesn't behave entirely great in older PowerPC OS X versions -- it loses communication with the programmer board pretty easily. I plan on looking into that as well at some point in the future, but I can say for now it works pretty well on Windows and Intel Macs according to what everyone has told me and my own experience.
Haha, very nice find on the floppy drive song! That's cool! I personally don't have any plans to make music with the floppy drive ;-)
What's this about a ROM disk?
It's somewhere in the thread as it goes on and on. Basically, bbraun developed a ROM disk driver and patched it into the IIsi ROM. The link to his site describes it in more detail. It's pretty amazing and it works great...
This post is amazingly approaching 1000 replies. Wow!
This post is amazingly approaching 1000 replies. Wow!
I think we all get our brush with Internet fame at some time or another. I guess this is yours, Doug 
First off, congratulations to you Doug and bbraun for an amazing project!
I only happenstanced across this thread today, and as such I've only read the first few pages of the thread as well as this final page (page 40). I've also seen Doug's 8MB ROM SIMM page and bbraun's ROM Driver page. I now have some questions for you...
1) I have an SE/30 that I would absolutely love to test out with a hacked ROM that that can boot some flavor of System 6 or 7. Will this Custom 8MB SIMM + Driver work with any version of System 6 or System 7 that is already compatible in an SE/30 that has a IIsi ROM? (For example, with a IIsi ROM in my SE/30 now I can run 6.0.8, 7.01, 7.1, 7.5.x, 7.6.x, and even OS 8.1 — albeit with the simple ResEdit hack to System file). If so, I would assume the only limitation would be the SIZE of the System Folder we intend to burn into the ROM SIMM? The 8MB SIMM gives us a 1.5 MB cap on whatever System Folder we burn, correct?
2) Would adding non-Apple CP's and Extensions cause problems in booting?
3) I assume we can't buy a ready to use pre-programmed 8MB SIMM (which would be the quickest path to experiencing Mac Classic style joy of ROM booting), so it would appear that we need 4 things: (a) an 8MB ROM SIMM, ( B) the SIMM programmer, © some kind of software that allows us to control the programmer, and then (d) the driver software that bbraun created. Is this correct? If so, how much does it all cost (with shipping to Japan), what forms of payment are accepted, and how do we go about buying it?
4) Is there a single PDF available that speaks in layman's terms about how to do it all — from how to use the control software for the SIMM Programmer board to the installation of the required drivers? Or is programming one's own custom ROM SIMM still in the domain of uber geeks who know their way around heavy duty programming?
All said, if you can make the process simple and easily understandable, I don't see why these kits wouldn't sell like hotcakes. As for myself, so long as I don't have to jump through numerous hoops or spent countless hours to so it, I would love to purchase a kit and experiment with burning different System Folder configurations to this amazing re-programmable ROM!
Thanks.
I only happenstanced across this thread today, and as such I've only read the first few pages of the thread as well as this final page (page 40). I've also seen Doug's 8MB ROM SIMM page and bbraun's ROM Driver page. I now have some questions for you...
1) I have an SE/30 that I would absolutely love to test out with a hacked ROM that that can boot some flavor of System 6 or 7. Will this Custom 8MB SIMM + Driver work with any version of System 6 or System 7 that is already compatible in an SE/30 that has a IIsi ROM? (For example, with a IIsi ROM in my SE/30 now I can run 6.0.8, 7.01, 7.1, 7.5.x, 7.6.x, and even OS 8.1 — albeit with the simple ResEdit hack to System file). If so, I would assume the only limitation would be the SIZE of the System Folder we intend to burn into the ROM SIMM? The 8MB SIMM gives us a 1.5 MB cap on whatever System Folder we burn, correct?
2) Would adding non-Apple CP's and Extensions cause problems in booting?
3) I assume we can't buy a ready to use pre-programmed 8MB SIMM (which would be the quickest path to experiencing Mac Classic style joy of ROM booting), so it would appear that we need 4 things: (a) an 8MB ROM SIMM, ( B) the SIMM programmer, © some kind of software that allows us to control the programmer, and then (d) the driver software that bbraun created. Is this correct? If so, how much does it all cost (with shipping to Japan), what forms of payment are accepted, and how do we go about buying it?
4) Is there a single PDF available that speaks in layman's terms about how to do it all — from how to use the control software for the SIMM Programmer board to the installation of the required drivers? Or is programming one's own custom ROM SIMM still in the domain of uber geeks who know their way around heavy duty programming?
All said, if you can make the process simple and easily understandable, I don't see why these kits wouldn't sell like hotcakes. As for myself, so long as I don't have to jump through numerous hoops or spent countless hours to so it, I would love to purchase a kit and experiment with burning different System Folder configurations to this amazing re-programmable ROM!
Thanks.
I'll second the motion for a layman's level HowTo for the whole kit and kaboodle . . . I'm lost.
Might some well versed newcomer to the world of this type of process jump in to help the Dynamic Duo with this bit of the project by sharing that hard won experience?
Back in the day, file corruption must have been more of an issue than today.But you never know when remembering having done a bit of work that disappeared in any iterative process can be copied and pasted into the current revision, saving much time and effort re-creating that bit of deleted data in the current version.
Procrastination Report:
I found the M.I.A. wire wrap tool last week . . .
< . . . now where did I stash those connectors?????? :?: >
Might some well versed newcomer to the world of this type of process jump in to help the Dynamic Duo with this bit of the project by sharing that hard won experience?
The necessity for this process in things as simple as medium size word processing document is something I've found it very difficult to get across to others.
Back in the day, file corruption must have been more of an issue than today.But you never know when remembering having done a bit of work that disappeared in any iterative process can be copied and pasted into the current revision, saving much time and effort re-creating that bit of deleted data in the current version.
Procrastination Report:
I found the M.I.A. wire wrap tool last week . . .
< . . . now where did I stash those connectors?????? :?: >
JDW, I will attempt to answer your questions to the best of my ability, although let me just prefix the questions with an aside. I've kind of stopped posting ROM modification updates or documentation in this forum because it is inherently walking a fine line with respect to this forum's rules. Specifically, I am modifying the copyrighted ROM, which I can't distribute or link to from this forum. I started down the path of trying to distribute patches to the ROM to be able to post them here without actually distributing the ROM its self, but that ended up being excessively time consuming and troublesome for both myself and people trying to use it.
I now post most of the ROM modification updates to the mac68k.info forums. I hope it is ok to link to that here, I haven't linked to it publicly in the past for fear of violating forum rules or ethics. I only do it now in an effort to avoid potential future rule violations of ROM discussion. I won't be publicly linking to it again outside of this post.
1) This works with every combination of system and SE/30 that has been tried AFAIK. From a design perspective, I don't know of any reason this would not work with every Mac OS that can run on the SE/30, although there can always be bugs or unforeseen interactions. System 6.0.8, and various versions of System 7 have been reported working.
Also, the IIsi ROM is 512KB, so the 8MB ROM SIMM gives you a 7.5MB image.
2) I do not know of any problems with extensions/CP's. Simply the change from the SE/30 ROM to IIsi ROM may cause issues with some hardware drivers, although I don't know of anything specific for the SE/30. Putting a IIsi ROM on the IIx causes the Radius Rocket software to complain that the IIsi is unsupported, although it's being used in a IIx and system gestalt and Finder about box all know the machine is a IIx. So it really depends on what the software is doing and what they're looking at.
3) I'll leave this one for Doug
4) The documentation of ROM preparation, I feel, is again brushing up against the forum rules, and to just be on the safe side, I haven't done it here. I have created a wiki page elsewhere with some basic instructions. It would be great to have feedback from folks who have used it. Anyone with a forum account can edit it, and I encourage people to do so.
I now post most of the ROM modification updates to the mac68k.info forums. I hope it is ok to link to that here, I haven't linked to it publicly in the past for fear of violating forum rules or ethics. I only do it now in an effort to avoid potential future rule violations of ROM discussion. I won't be publicly linking to it again outside of this post.
1) This works with every combination of system and SE/30 that has been tried AFAIK. From a design perspective, I don't know of any reason this would not work with every Mac OS that can run on the SE/30, although there can always be bugs or unforeseen interactions. System 6.0.8, and various versions of System 7 have been reported working.
Also, the IIsi ROM is 512KB, so the 8MB ROM SIMM gives you a 7.5MB image.
2) I do not know of any problems with extensions/CP's. Simply the change from the SE/30 ROM to IIsi ROM may cause issues with some hardware drivers, although I don't know of anything specific for the SE/30. Putting a IIsi ROM on the IIx causes the Radius Rocket software to complain that the IIsi is unsupported, although it's being used in a IIx and system gestalt and Finder about box all know the machine is a IIx. So it really depends on what the software is doing and what they're looking at.
3) I'll leave this one for Doug
4) The documentation of ROM preparation, I feel, is again brushing up against the forum rules, and to just be on the safe side, I haven't done it here. I have created a wiki page elsewhere with some basic instructions. It would be great to have feedback from folks who have used it. Anyone with a forum account can edit it, and I encourage people to do so.
There is one last thing, doug, that is missing from your hack-a STICKY topic!!!
It seems so! So I guess it's only fitting that I am the one who adds post #1000....I think we all get our brush with Internet fame at some time or another. I guess this is yours, Doug
Thanks JDW!
bbraun answered pretty much everything already (thanks bbraun!). The wiki page he created explains very well what it takes to get going. I don't think the driver has been tested with OS 8, so YMMV on that, but I've tested it in a IIci with everything from 6.0.8 to 7.6 with no trouble as of the latest ROM disk driver.
If you know how to use a Mac emulator and you can either use a hex editor to manually concatenate files or use the cat command as bbraun describes on the wiki, you can probably also create your own bootable SIMM without too much trouble.
As for question #3, here's what I have available:
- 2 MB SIMMs, including 4 chips in the sockets -- $24
- 8 MB SIMMs -- $30
- Programmer boards -- $40
- Open-source control software, firmware, and hardware designs -- free
Shipping varies. If you just buy a SIMM I can probably ship it in an envelope to the US for $1.95. If you buy a programmer I would rather send everything in a USPS box for $5. International shipping varies, but usually the boxes cost about $16.95 to ship. Envelopes are cheaper. The price has changed over time, so it's whatever the post office is charging at the time.
The SIMM programmer communicates as a CDC class modem device. If you use Mac OS X, it's driverless. It appears as a modem in the Network System Preferences and it just works when you open the software. Windows requires a simple INF to be installed, but the INF only tells Windows to use its built in CDC serial port driver. No idea why Windows is so picky...
Like I said earlier in the thread, it works best on an Intel Mac, but the software does run on PowerPC Macs down to 10.4. It just hasn't been heavily tested and I have received a report that it loses communication easily. It works much more reliably on newer Macs but there are still occasional glitches that I want to work on. I also occasionally see the same type of problem on Windows 7. I think timeouts/retries will help with some of that, and that can all be added with a firmware update. If anyone else feels like working on the software too, it's a completely open source Google Code project.
Before anyone freaks out due to the price of the programmer board, I hope everyone understands that it's a lot of work to assemble this stuff and I've invested a ton of my own time and money into the project. In these low quantities it's really hard to make everything cheap. It's really been an eye-opening experience. I try to buy the parts and bare PCBs in larger quantities to help make it cheaper, but it also sets me back until people snatch them all up. If anyone wants to have their own PCBs made and assemble their own for cheaper, go for it -- it's all open source
We discussed it earlier in this thread
The conclusion that we came to is that the thread doesn't have to be stickied because it keeps itself alive...
Forgive me for being the one who exceeded 1000 posts here, but I just wanted to end my words in this thread by saying 3 things:
1) Thank you once again Doug and bbraun for what is quite obviously a "tireless commitment to excellence" when it comes to making vintage Mac computing fun, exciting and incredibly practical and useful!
2) Giving a nod of respect to bbraun's previous post, I myself will not directly link to the Mac68k Forums. But for those who come to this 68kMLA thread and find the questions put forth in my previous post, please note that I fully intend to continue my questions and further discussion at the Mac68k Forums. To be specific, the "Software Hacking" forum. (I am "JDW" there too.)
3) Quick links repeated: ROMdisk Setup Wiki & ROM SIMM Programmer Software
1) Thank you once again Doug and bbraun for what is quite obviously a "tireless commitment to excellence" when it comes to making vintage Mac computing fun, exciting and incredibly practical and useful!
2) Giving a nod of respect to bbraun's previous post, I myself will not directly link to the Mac68k Forums. But for those who come to this 68kMLA thread and find the questions put forth in my previous post, please note that I fully intend to continue my questions and further discussion at the Mac68k Forums. To be specific, the "Software Hacking" forum. (I am "JDW" there too.)
3) Quick links repeated: ROMdisk Setup Wiki & ROM SIMM Programmer Software
How about getting a company to assemble-like you do with the etching-your boards?
I had the circuit boards themselves manufactured by Seeed Studio. I don't do any etching or anything like that myself. Placing/soldering the components on the boards is doable by myself, but man is it annoying. It turns out in such low quantities, paying a place to do the soldering for you is just not cost-effective.
hey. you know the LC520 etc or the lc550 those boards have the 030 cpu still... they also have the rom slot decoldered, i wonder if those have the ability to boot from an 8mb simm
i would like to say i have 4 items from dougg3
his soldering its pretty darn good, must have a steady hand, and a nice flux pen
i would like to say i have 4 items from dougg3
his soldering its pretty darn good, must have a steady hand, and a nice flux pen
Good question...
Hey, thanks!i would like to say i have 4 items from dougg3his soldering its pretty darn good, must have a steady hand, and a nice flux pen
I've actually moved away from using a flux pen and I now use a syringe of Chip-Quik no-clean tack flux. It works extremely well, but it's also really sticky and disgusting so I clean it off with 99% isopropyl alcohol and even then the stickiness stays around for about a week. But the flux definitely does its job well...Yeah, I know -- no-clean flux and I clean it off. But it's weird and sticky if I leave it on.
I use a toothbrush + isopropyl. Makes my motherboards squeaky clean.
lol from wikipedia, i like the codename.
So... umm. If I mailed someone my LC ROMs and some matching EEPROMs, would it be possible to make a Pirate LC ROM? Arrr! 
Haha, I'm not totally sure about the startup chime (yet another version of the sound chip that I'd need an actual LC to hack with I think), but the pirate happy mac would be doable I think...
Would it be possible to hack a version of the IIsi ROM to give it the ID of a IIci? }
Would the ID constitute just the checksum? Because it would be very simple to change the checksum in the IIsi ROM to the IIci's checksum (first four bytes) and disable the checksum test Otherwise, I'm not sure...
Otherwise, I'm not sure...
Well, if the IIsi's identity transfer's with the ROM to the IIfx so that the Rocket won't work in it . . . maybe. :?:
I'm about to try the IIsi ROM in the IIcx, do I just need top pop it in there? I know this RocketWare 1.3.2 install is good, it ran fine on the IIcx when I installed it. When I swapped the HDD and Rocket to the IIsi, RocketWare launches on startup and then decides it won't work on the "IIsi" for the OS reboot. I figure if the IIsi ROM disables the Rocket in the IIcx . . . we just might have a winner. [}] ]'>
I'm about to try the IIsi ROM in the IIcx, do I just need top pop it in there? I know this RocketWare 1.3.2 install is good, it ran fine on the IIcx when I installed it. When I swapped the HDD and Rocket to the IIsi, RocketWare launches on startup and then decides it won't work on the "IIsi" for the OS reboot. I figure if the IIsi ROM disables the Rocket in the IIcx . . . we just might have a winner. [}
] ]'>
iCrap! :-/ The IIcx does a good job of trying to boot with the IIsi ROM, but hangs at the Welcome to Macintosh screen with or without extensions disabled.
I put another 16MB into Bank B, but that didn't help, maybe I should try it with only 1MB in Bank A?
Will the IIx boot with a IIsi ROM?
I put another 16MB into Bank B, but that didn't help, maybe I should try it with only 1MB in Bank A?
Will the IIx boot with a IIsi ROM?
I'm pretty sure the IIsi ROM should boot both the IIcx and the IIx. Not sure why it's not working for you 
Thanks, it was probably the 7.5.1 install on the Q700 HDD that wasn't working. I just booted the IIcx from the 7.1/RockeWare 1.3.2 HDD and it booted fine w/o the Rocket. It still thinks it's a IIcx, even with the IIsi ROM. I put the Rocket in there and whammo: Error #4100 again, but this time it says "The Rocket does not work with this version of the Mac ROM." In the IIsi it's Error #4102 "Rocket does not work on this Macintosh cpu."
Rocketware 1.3.2 is looking for something in the ROM and disabling itself, I don't think it's looking further than the ROM, doesn't make much sense, nobody was hacking the Mac ROMs back in the day. It would only need to be something simple in the ROM to keep the IIsi from achieving Quadra status . . . or burning out its PSU, in the case that it wasn't Apple prohibiting its use in a LowEndMac.
Well, I got it to run under the first rev of RocketShare on the IIsi, but I'll definitely need help to get it running under the first rev of RocketWare. The later version of RocketWare doesn't even try to load, the IIsi just X's out the RocketWare extensions, steamrolling right over them.
RocketWare 1.3.2 is definitely the ticket! If only I knew how to punch it. :-/
Rocketware 1.3.2 is looking for something in the ROM and disabling itself, I don't think it's looking further than the ROM, doesn't make much sense, nobody was hacking the Mac ROMs back in the day. It would only need to be something simple in the ROM to keep the IIsi from achieving Quadra status . . . or burning out its PSU, in the case that it wasn't Apple prohibiting its use in a LowEndMac.
Well, I got it to run under the first rev of RocketShare on the IIsi, but I'll definitely need help to get it running under the first rev of RocketWare. The later version of RocketWare doesn't even try to load, the IIsi just X's out the RocketWare extensions, steamrolling right over them.
RocketWare 1.3.2 is definitely the ticket! If only I knew how to punch it. :-/
Figured this would be the most appropriate place to announce it -- just came out with a new version of the programmer control software (1.0.3) and firmware (1.2) available at the Google Code project:
- Now supports flashing only a portion of the SIMM (so for example if you make a ROM disk you can more quickly replace only the ROM image at the front of the SIMM without erasing your ROM disk contents).
- Lets you read each chip into a separate file or write each chip from a separate file. This would allow you to use the 2 MB SIMM as a chip reader/burner (for chips with compatible pinouts!)
- Has a nifty icon courtesy of CC_333
I just wanted to say that the HD20 INIT is included with the hacked IIsi rom that is commonly used with dougg3 simm.
So as soon as we get BMOW's Floppy emu / +HD20 emu going, in conjunction with dougg3's ROM SIMM + Hacked IIsi ROM, We will have yet another cool way to have easily bootable machines… or easily accessible archived data
i mean just think… pop out SD card,( of BMOW's Floppy emu) load up the HD20 emu image with freshly download vintage software on your 2012 iMac, pop it into your Mac II (with simm socket soldered on) IIx/ IIfx/ IIcx/ IIsi/ IIci/ SE30 - almost as easy as a thumb drive ….
So as soon as we get BMOW's Floppy emu / +HD20 emu going, in conjunction with dougg3's ROM SIMM + Hacked IIsi ROM, We will have yet another cool way to have easily bootable machines… or easily accessible archived data
i mean just think… pop out SD card,( of BMOW's Floppy emu) load up the HD20 emu image with freshly download vintage software on your 2012 iMac, pop it into your Mac II (with simm socket soldered on) IIx/ IIfx/ IIcx/ IIsi/ IIci/ SE30 - almost as easy as a thumb drive ….