Thread
Another IIci ROM hack
Does anyone know the difference between GttMFH2E and this? http://www.amazon.com/Mac-Family-Hdware-Ref-Apple/dp/0201192551
They're both 518 pages, both 2nd edition, but one was published in 1988 and the other 1990. (So is it really the 1st edition?) If this "Apple Macintosh Family Hardware Reference" book would be useful to anyone, I'll gladly buy a copy and add it to my "bookscanning" project.
Edit: oh wait, dougg3 mentioned it at the bottom of his post. And silly me didn't notice it.
btw dougg3, awesome hacking you're doing here. I absolutely loved it when you had it play the first few notes of Mario.
They're both 518 pages, both 2nd edition, but one was published in 1988 and the other 1990. (So is it really the 1st edition?) If this "Apple Macintosh Family Hardware Reference" book would be useful to anyone, I'll gladly buy a copy and add it to my "bookscanning" project.
Edit: oh wait, dougg3 mentioned it at the bottom of his post. And silly me didn't notice it.
btw dougg3, awesome hacking you're doing here. I absolutely loved it when you had it play the first few notes of Mario.
I noticed the same thing about how Amazon says the Macintosh Family Hardware Reference is a 2nd edition. I'm guessing it's a mistake. This ACM citation page says its ISBN number is a first edition:
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=534919&preflayout=flat
I edited in the reference to that first book later, so it's possible you saw my post before I added it
And thanks! It is a fun hack
I personally think it would be useful to have complete electronic versions of both editions and I'd be happy to help in any way I can with my copy of the 2nd edition. I'm a little terrified of copyright law though...does any publisher even care with such an old out-of-print book?
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=534919&preflayout=flat
I edited in the reference to that first book later, so it's possible you saw my post before I added it
And thanks! It is a fun hack I personally think it would be useful to have complete electronic versions of both editions and I'd be happy to help in any way I can with my copy of the 2nd edition. I'm a little terrified of copyright law though...does any publisher even care with such an old out-of-print book?
With an author that goes by the name: Apple Computer, I'm fairly certain they'd be the most ridiculous of copyright owners!
Meanwhile, back on the scanner farm, I've examined a few sections of a few chapters and have some pages setup to print back to back for a three-ring hacking binder.
GttMFH2E = Mac Plus - MacIIsi
AMFHR?E = 128k - 512ke +/- Beige Pluses
I'm not sure where the breaks are yet because AMFHR?E is on a slow boat from England.
It makes sense to think of:
AMFHR?E as the pre-ADB Compact Mac era DevNote (Paper)
GttMFH2E as the pre-Quadra, ADB Mac era, Devnote (Paper)
. . . with the IIci & IIsi as the transitional Paper/Electronic DevNote machines.
. . . or not! :lol:
Meanwhile, back on the scanner farm, I've examined a few sections of a few chapters and have some pages setup to print back to back for a three-ring hacking binder.
GttMFH2E = Mac Plus - MacIIsi
AMFHR?E = 128k - 512ke +/- Beige Pluses
I'm not sure where the breaks are yet because AMFHR?E is on a slow boat from England.
It makes sense to think of:
AMFHR?E as the pre-ADB Compact Mac era DevNote (Paper)
GttMFH2E as the pre-Quadra, ADB Mac era, Devnote (Paper)
. . . with the IIci & IIsi as the transitional Paper/Electronic DevNote machines.
. . . or not! :lol:
If AMFHR contains the exact same info as GttMFH for the 128K through Plus, then it should have everything I need. I wish there were a way to know for sure though. Maybe the 128K-Plus content in GttMFH is also revised or expanded from what was printed in AMFHR.
Sorry to hijack your thread.
Sorry to hijack your thread.
When it comes to documenting the info needed for hacks, there's no such thing as off topic in this forum!
This was my turf back in the day when we had individual moderators for forums, Peripherals was my first assignment from the "kids" when they invited me to join the mod squad and, for some unknown reason, my name popped up for the Hacks forum as well.
When dougg3 needed the ASC info in GttMFH2E for his IIci ROM hack . . .
. . . it appeared on his virtual doorstop and he purchases GttMFH2E! }
Nailing down what info is in which edition of these books is important. I'll assume that the first edition of AFHR covered the 128, possibly the 512k.
I'll guess that the 2nd edition covered the Pre-ADB SCSI Macs, likely assuming that repeating the earlier info was redundant.
The first edition of GttMFH was likely limited to the additional info for the ADB Platinum Plus along with the unprecedented expansion capabilities of the SE's PDS and '020, NuBus Mac II.
GttMf2E was likely added to cover the 68030 Machines and the Portable up thru the IIsi.
Same for "Designing Cards & Drivers for the MFH" editions 1 thru 3, which blatantly refers to "an understanding of the info in GttMFH2E.
I doubt Apple wasted much paper or effort on repetitive information.
BTW, I also have the 1998 LaserWriter - LaserWriter IINTX, LaserWriter Reference . . .
. . . if anyone is interested in hacking these beasts. }
One day the 68kMLA will have them ALL!!!!!! :approve:
This was my turf back in the day when we had individual moderators for forums, Peripherals was my first assignment from the "kids" when they invited me to join the mod squad and, for some unknown reason, my name popped up for the Hacks forum as well.
When dougg3 needed the ASC info in GttMFH2E for his IIci ROM hack . . .
. . . it appeared on his virtual doorstop and he purchases GttMFH2E! }
Nailing down what info is in which edition of these books is important. I'll assume that the first edition of AFHR covered the 128, possibly the 512k.
I'll guess that the 2nd edition covered the Pre-ADB SCSI Macs, likely assuming that repeating the earlier info was redundant.
The first edition of GttMFH was likely limited to the additional info for the ADB Platinum Plus along with the unprecedented expansion capabilities of the SE's PDS and '020, NuBus Mac II.
GttMf2E was likely added to cover the 68030 Machines and the Portable up thru the IIsi.
Same for "Designing Cards & Drivers for the MFH" editions 1 thru 3, which blatantly refers to "an understanding of the info in GttMFH2E.
I doubt Apple wasted much paper or effort on repetitive information.
BTW, I also have the 1998 LaserWriter - LaserWriter IINTX, LaserWriter Reference . . .
. . . if anyone is interested in hacking these beasts. }
One day the 68kMLA will have them ALL!!!!!! :approve:
Amen to thatWhen it comes to documenting the info needed for hacks, there's no such thing as off topic in this forum!
This stuff is relevant to any Mac hacking thread!Haha, yes. Thanks again for scanning those pages. I would have bought the book immediately, but I couldn't find anything under $200! I know what you mean about Apple being a crazy name when it comes to copyright. I just wish there was something we could do, because the book is really, really useful, and it also seems to be fairly hard to findWhen dougg3 needed the ASC info in GttMFH2E for his IIci ROM hack . . .. . . it appeared on his virtual doorstop and he purchases GttMFH2E! }
As far as the ROM SIMM goes: All of the parts for the ROM SIMMs have arrived except for the boards themselves. I will be using the SST39SF040, which is a 4 megabit chip. With four of them, this should allow 2 megabytes of ROM space if all goes as planned! I have verified that I am able to program the chip with my Willem programmer board, so we should be in good shape! Assuming an original ROM size of 512 kb for the IIci, this leaves 1.5 MB of space for a custom startup chime, which with 8-bit 22.255 KHz sound, should allow for, oh, about 70 seconds of sound
Since that's way too much, I'm sure someone can come up with even more creative uses of the extra ROM space!As far as the capacitors, I went for 0.1 uF, 10 V multilayer ceramic capacitors. Is that a good enough rating? I could tell by the markings that the old ones were 0.1 uF, but I had no idea about the voltage rating. I'm figuring it's supposed to be 5V, and I doubled that to be safe?
I was able to manually convert olePigeon's awesome traced pirate EPS to the footprint format for FreePCB by opening it up and grabbing the coordinates (it's just a plain text file, neato!). It's in the silkscreen layer now. It's only less than half an inch tall right now, so I'll have to write a program to multiply all the coordinates by a scale factor to change the size of it.
I'm going to make the via in the skull an actual through hole on the board! Then I'll see what I can do for the LEDs.
I'm going to make the via in the skull an actual through hole on the board! Then I'll see what I can do for the LEDs.
Here's what I have I was able to make a Perl script to scale the coordinates to make it bigger. I also flipped the image horizontally to show what it would look like on the bottom of the board while looking at it.
The LED eyes might be a problem. I can probably make the skull and "cross-guns" a little bigger and I could pick a slightly smaller LED size, but take a look at the capacitors. Those are 1206 size, and they do make LEDs much smaller than that, but I don't want to go too small either or it'll be tough (impossible?) to do by hand. I'd have to pick a really really tiny LED size, definitely smaller than 1206. If I make them too big, then they will interfere with the silkscreen by the eyes and nose...
I was able to make a Perl script to scale the coordinates to make it bigger. I also flipped the image horizontally to show what it would look like on the bottom of the board while looking at it.The LED eyes might be a problem. I can probably make the skull and "cross-guns" a little bigger and I could pick a slightly smaller LED size, but take a look at the capacitors. Those are 1206 size, and they do make LEDs much smaller than that, but I don't want to go too small either or it'll be tough (impossible?) to do by hand. I'd have to pick a really really tiny LED size, definitely smaller than 1206. If I make them too big, then they will interfere with the silkscreen by the eyes and nose...
Switch to just one LED to save room and add an eyepatch for the other?
Tie the LED to one of the RAS lines so that it'll flicker on when the ROM is accessed?
VERY VERY Guys!
Tie the LED to one of the RAS lines so that it'll flicker on when the ROM is accessed?
VERY VERY
Guys!
That's cooler than I expected. I wouldn't worry about having super tiny LEDs. They don't have to fit right inside, they can be approximately the same size as the eye socket. Even small through-hole LEDs would be fine if they're roughly the same size.
I wouldn't worry about having super tiny LEDs. They don't have to fit right inside, they can be approximately the same size as the eye socket. Even small through-hole LEDs would be fine if they're roughly the same size.Wouldn't that only happen once when the computer is first turned on?
Dunno, I'd think it would happen whenever that RAS line went active on any RAM Bank . . .
. . . even when the ROM's Bank wasn't selecteed . . . unless the ROM's buffered. :?:
Who's gonna do the first clear case hack to show off this lil' gem? }
. . . even when the ROM's Bank wasn't selecteed . . . unless the ROM's buffered. :?:
Who's gonna do the first clear case hack to show off this lil' gem? }
dougg3, you are a 68k hacking r*o*c*k*s*t*a*r! Thanks for inspiring all of us in this forum.
Lots more cool discussion going on!
And thank you and everyone else for helping me get the info I needed to get this stuff done! I'm anxious to see if your SE/30 will do a custom startup chime
I can't wait for the first batch of boards to arrive to see if they work! Still no shipment notice yet.
Ooooooh that sounds really cool! I'm not sure what line it would be though -- /OE maybe? There is /OE and /CE (output enable and chip enable). The rest of the pins are either address, data, VCC, ground, or programming pins.
Hmm, good point. I actually am not certain of how much the ROM is used once the machine is booted.
I'll see what I can do with 0805 LEDs. I don't know if they are feasible to hand solder or not...we'll find out! Anyway, if they are the same size as the eye sockets I will have to remove the eye sockets from the silkscreen completely, is that OK with you?That's cooler than I expected.
Thanks!!!
And thank you and everyone else for helping me get the info I needed to get this stuff done! I'm anxious to see if your SE/30 will do a custom startup chime I can't wait for the first batch of boards to arrive to see if they work! Still no shipment notice yet.
So will this SIMM work in any Mac with a ROM SIMM slot? (II, IIfx, IIsi, IIci, SE/30, etc?) Just swap out the ROMs?
Well, according to GTTMFH2E, the II, IIx, IIcx, IIci, IIfx, and SE/30 have a ROM SIMM slot with identical pinouts*. And we know the IIsi has one too--the hardware notes on Apple's site for the IIsi show an almost identical pinout, except for pin 46, which is A23 on the IIsi pinout and +5V on the others. I hooked pin 46 to VCC on my SIMM, so I may want to leave it NC (not connected) on the next revision of the SIMM. Probably not a good idea to hook an address line to VCC when it's in the IIsi. So I'd imagine it would work with any of those models. If it's a problem in the IIsi I'm pretty sure we can just cut the connection near the SIMM pads on my first batch of boards. Probably a good thing I just discovered that...
So physically, the SIMM should work in any of those machines, but whether the software will work is another story. Apparently IIfx and IIsi SIMMs work in an SE/30, and trag and Gamba put a IIci ROM dump into a SIMM and used it in an SE/30. I'd assume newer ROMs work with older machines. I would also assume, then, that my hacked IIci ROM would work in any of the machines with the exception of the IIsi. I don't know if it'll work in the IIsi or not--might be an interesting experiment. I know the IIsi has some newer stuff like a newer version of the sound chip with sound input capabilities. It wouldn't take much to hack the IIsi's ROM to have a custom startup chime now that I know how to do it in the IIci. So either way any of those models SHOULD be usable with this SIMM as long as we can get the right software on it.
* It also says A0 and A1 are only used on the IIcx/IIci (so they're probably also used in the IIsi, too), but I have no idea for what -- I left them unconnected.
So physically, the SIMM should work in any of those machines, but whether the software will work is another story. Apparently IIfx and IIsi SIMMs work in an SE/30, and trag and Gamba put a IIci ROM dump into a SIMM and used it in an SE/30. I'd assume newer ROMs work with older machines. I would also assume, then, that my hacked IIci ROM would work in any of the machines with the exception of the IIsi. I don't know if it'll work in the IIsi or not--might be an interesting experiment. I know the IIsi has some newer stuff like a newer version of the sound chip with sound input capabilities. It wouldn't take much to hack the IIsi's ROM to have a custom startup chime now that I know how to do it in the IIci. So either way any of those models SHOULD be usable with this SIMM as long as we can get the right software on it.
* It also says A0 and A1 are only used on the IIcx/IIci (so they're probably also used in the IIsi, too), but I have no idea for what -- I left them unconnected.
Good news, the first batch of boards has shipped! Woohoo
Excellent news! [] ]'>
_______________________________________________
My copy of MFHR arrived yesterday. It appears to be a Hardcover First Edition from the IMPERIAL COLLEGE, LONDON.
From the "must be returned by" date stamps, it looks like only 18 people borrowed it from '89 - '97!
It starts off with a listing of, and a family tree format figure illustrating the Roadmap to the Macintosh technical documentation "wish list" that I'll scan and post.
Part I covers the "Classic Macintosh"
Part II covers the SE
Part III covers the Macintosh II
No mention of the later (?) "Platinum" Plus w/ADB which, IIRC, is the first machine covered in GttMFH2E.
] ]'>_______________________________________________
My copy of MFHR arrived yesterday. It appears to be a Hardcover First Edition from the IMPERIAL COLLEGE, LONDON.
From the "must be returned by" date stamps, it looks like only 18 people borrowed it from '89 - '97!
It starts off with a listing of, and a family tree format figure illustrating the Roadmap to the Macintosh technical documentation "wish list" that I'll scan and post.
Part I covers the "Classic Macintosh"
Part II covers the SE
Part III covers the Macintosh II
No mention of the later (?) "Platinum" Plus w/ADB which, IIRC, is the first machine covered in GttMFH2E.
How does the Macintosh Family Hardware Reference differ from the earlier Inside Macintosh volumes?
WOOHOO! NINE pages and counting for your first post, dougg3!
All of which refer to the Macintosh Hardware: I/O subsystems, memory management and physical layout of the case and design guidelines for those systems & subsystems.
Inside Macintosh is for software only developers right alongside hardware/software developers.
For the most part, the Hardware References give a vague description of the way a Mac is supposed to work and spend a LOT of ink/bits making it VERY CLEAR that the Mac Hardware should ONLY be addressed via the ToolBox routines found in: Inside Macintosh
MFHR and GttMFH2E are Hardware Reference Materials printed on wood pulp based storage media which would the Paleolithic era distribution model for the Neolithic Developer CDs, both predecessors of the more current PDF based DeveloperNote model.
All of which refer to the Macintosh Hardware: I/O subsystems, memory management and physical layout of the case and design guidelines for those systems & subsystems.
Inside Macintosh is for software only developers right alongside hardware/software developers.
For the most part, the Hardware References give a vague description of the way a Mac is supposed to work and spend a LOT of ink/bits making it VERY CLEAR that the Mac Hardware should ONLY be addressed via the ToolBox routines found in: Inside Macintosh
My Inside Macintosh volumes are wood pulp in a 3-ring binder.
Here's the RoadMap:
. . . with a couple of other Titles I'd like to nab!
Here's the .TXT info:
There wasn't much need for Macintosh Hardware Reference Material until the release of the SE and the Macintosh II.
Before then, the Classic Macintosh was SJ's dream of the perfect "monolithic" AIO computing appliance . . .
. . . just add the "optional" :lol: second FDD, Double the RAM and add a SCSI port to the Box . . .
. . . then a killer app like PageMaker can save the poor little critter from oblivion!
. . . with a couple of other Titles I'd like to nab!
Here's the .TXT info:
There wasn't much need for Macintosh Hardware Reference Material until the release of the SE and the Macintosh II.
Before then, the Classic Macintosh was SJ's dream of the perfect "monolithic" AIO computing appliance . . .
. . . just add the "optional" :lol: second FDD, Double the RAM and add a SCSI port to the Box . . .
. . . then a killer app like PageMaker can save the poor little critter from oblivion!
I just ordered TIttMF in collectable condition from amazon.com for $35, shipped 2-Day, so I should have it Saturday.
Technical Introduction to the Macintosh Family the root level of the Macintosh Family TechInfo Tree! :approve:
Technical Introduction to the Macintosh Family the root level of the Macintosh Family TechInfo Tree! :approve:
I bought my copy from AbeBooks, where if you want something that is in good condition, the price is very "affordable" (cheap as) and some copies for more, that are described as "as new".
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bt.x=0&bt.y=0&sts=t&tn=Technical+Introduction+to+the+Macintosh+Family
I always check for availability of old books/manuals at AbeBooks as shipping to the land down under is quite reasonable.
I got my copy of MFHR from abebooks and was very satisfied. I saw several copies of TIttMF for less . . .
. . . but the price was right for a "collectable" Reader that I don't expect to be scanning from cover to cover! }
Designing Cards and Drivers for the Macintosh II and Macintosh SE is next on my list and abebooks has some great prices!
DCaDftMIIaMSE is beginning to get just a tad cryptic! :lol:
. . . but the price was right for a "collectable" Reader that I don't expect to be scanning from cover to cover! }
Designing Cards and Drivers for the Macintosh II and Macintosh SE is next on my list and abebooks has some great prices!
DCaDftMIIaMSE is beginning to get just a tad cryptic! :lol:
LOL...I thought GttMFH2E was cryptic enough, but DCaDftMIIaSE is just insane!
Between all of the posters here, we could open a freakin' library with how many books we have!
Between all of the posters here, we could open a freakin' library with how many books we have!
Hey Trash80 - that family tree is invaluable! Thankyou for posting that.
De nada, compadre! [] ]'>
My "Collectable, Like New" copy of TIttMF arrived today and I could swear it's in better shape than my brand new, special ordered, GTttMFH2E was when it arrived at B&N back in the day! It's certainly in much better shape than the "in stock/on the shelf" copies had been at Barnes & Noble . . .
. . . before they'd discontinued stocking them. :approve:
More info after I take a gander at this new research toy! [] ]'>
] ]'>My "Collectable, Like New" copy of TIttMF arrived today and I could swear it's in better shape than my brand new, special ordered, GTttMFH2E was when it arrived at B&N back in the day! It's certainly in much better shape than the "in stock/on the shelf" copies had been at Barnes & Noble . . .
. . . before they'd discontinued stocking them. :approve:
More info after I take a gander at this new research toy! [
] ]'>
ya i have the designing cards and devices book as well. I also have inside macintosh vol2 i think? but thats all i have.
Vol 1 through III is downloadable on the web. I have vol 2 in book form.
Vol 1 through III is downloadable on the web. I have vol 2 in book form.