Home▸ Forums▸ 68kMLA▸ 2X Mac IIcis and A bunch of other stuff.
2X Mac IIcis and A bunch of other stuff.
68kMLA · Hardware · 49 posts · Aug 6, 2009 — Aug 17, 2009 View original thread ↗
#1 Thu, 6 Aug 2009 - 22:28 68kMLA
Hey guys! A guy on Freecycle is shipping this to me.

-- 2 Mac IIci's -- both have the motherboards, cache card, hard drive, internal 3.5" drive ... but I moved all the RAM, the better cache card, the video card (a Radius something-er-other), and the 10bT network card to one machine with the larger hard drive, so the other is basically a spare-parts repository.

If you end up using the hard drives, kindly erase my old files. I don't have a monitor that works with it, so wasn't able to confirm what's on it...

-- 1 Extended Keyboard II, ADB, with cables & mouse.

-- 1 SCSI CD drive

-- 1 SCSI Bernoulli drive

-- 1 USB Zip drive + USB-ADB converter

-- 1 Calcomp digitizer tablet

-- 1 modem

-- misc cables, power supplies, & SCSI terminator.

-- 3.5" discs with system installers, utilities, etc. (I forget if it's system 6 or 7 installer discs... but i'm sure the system software on the hard drive was the most up-to-date as of whenever I last used it.)

YEAH!!!

#2 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 01:44 68kMLA
Nice score. :) Just please, whatever you do, make sure you do end up erasing his old files, without reading them. There's no need to give us vintage Mac enthusiasts a bad name (and make things harder for us by giving people a reason to not give/sell us their machines) by reading donated data. ;)

#3 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 01:44 68kMLA
Wow, nice. :O

I'm still struggling to get my Macintosh IIci motherboard working lolz.

#4 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 01:59 68kMLA
Yeah, I REALLY don't want to read his files. I'll probably just wipe the HDs With the installers that came with them.

Also, Whats a Bernoulli Drive?

#5 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 02:24 68kMLA
It was one of the removable storage systems that were all the rage at the time. Back around 1993 there were two main competitors: SyQuest, with their 44 and 88MB disks and drives, and Iomega, with their Bernoulli drives. From what I've read, Bernoulli drives were the better technology, as they were more reliable and durable, but they were also a lot more expensive.

Just whatever you do...just make sure you get the drivers for the Bernoulli drive and the graphics tablet off the HDD before you format it. Its ok to get software off old hard drives, especially since in this case you'll need it to use some of the peripherals (which may or may not still have the driver disks with them)...just as long as you don't keep any user-created data. ;)

#7 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 12:39 68kMLA
I am really excited to use my ADB mouse with my eMac.

Are Bernoulli drives rare? Do you guys want me to put the driver on here for you?

#8 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 13:00 68kMLA
I'd imagine they are...I know they cost an absolute bomb back in the day, and I haven't seen much discussion about them on here.

#9 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 13:06 68kMLA
I think it would be a good idea to share the driver alright.

I did some digging around and managed to find what I think was the last driver release from Iomega (they've changed their site since and I can't find the driver link).

http://www.freestuffandmoney.com/forsale/drivers.html

It's the fourth line down, use the local copy download link. There's also instructions on getting MacOS to recognise and install the driver. It might be newer than the copy you have.

#10 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 13:34 68kMLA
I will share the driver, and Will document the Bernoulli. What is this Radius card the dude talks about in the IIci with the better cache card and bigger hard drive?

Against the shippers description I DO plan to get them both working. One will go to my country house and the other stay in NYC with me. There will be no glorified parts machine! }:)

#13 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 14:53 68kMLA
Wait What? I don't get it. :?:

#14 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 15:20 68kMLA
Off-topic, but am I the only person here who finds it amusing that Gateway made a utility called, of all things, the "Any Key Utility"? :lol:
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LOL, good catch!

(hint: think skeleton key for gates)

#15 Fri, 7 Aug 2009 - 18:13 68kMLA
UPS Says its been delivered, I am not there at the moment and will be heading out for there at 6:00, Updates SOON!!!

:D So hyped.

#16 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 02:23 68kMLA
OK, got em. Both are pretty beat up but nothing a TLC cant fix. There are these weird Ram things, which hold to SIMMS per card. It reads "SIMM Extender Ver 3, Princeton Manfact."

One of the Hard Drive caddys in one of them is popped up, and the case won't shut. They both power up. Don't have a display connected. One has a SUPER long Radius Color card. It reads : Radius DIR Color GX

The "ADB to USB" is actually Serial to USB... Dont know a use for this. The bernoulli and CD power up perfectly. The CD is by Power User.

The Calcomp tablet has no Pen..

Updates and vid+ pic soon.

#17 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 03:10 68kMLA
Looking forward to those pics!

#18 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 04:09 68kMLA
A little historical memoir:

The Bernoulii wasn't really all that rare and was actually a slightly better technology than Syquest's. But by being first out of the gate, Syquest's drives were adopted, nearly exclusively, at the very beginning of the "service bureau" era and the resulting economies of scale allowed Syquest to undercut Iomega's Bernoulli pricing.

The Bernoulli principal is what "gets and keeps airplanes up in the air." In the case of the Iomega Bernoulli drives, it kept the read/write heads from ever touching the surface of the lighter, more flexible media, much like the way "ground effect" sometimes makes it difficult to set a plane down onto the tarmac.

When combined with a smaller 3.5" form factor and the "Optical" indexing from "Floptical" drives: the ZIP drive was born. It was revolutionary in concept and leapfrogged Syquest's more mundane "Winchester" Disk (AKA: run of the mill hard drive platter) in a portable cartridge concept . . .

. . . and thereby blew those monopolizing, arrogant pissants at Syquest right out of the water! :lol:

more than cantankerous old coot mode>

I said memoir, because the ole'noggin isn't fully back on line as yet . . . :I . . . so feel free to contradict me!

jt: the old coot with more experience in the realm of funky peripherals than you can shake a memory stick at! :-x

#19 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 05:52 68kMLA
The Bernoulii wasn't really all that rare and was actually a slightly better technology than Syquest's.
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Yeah - I've got the 2nd edition of Macs for Dummies, where David Pogue discusses the SyQuest vs Bernoulli issue, and he was saying that "you'll hear all the time about SyQuest disks going bad, but you'll never hear of a Bernoulli going bad", but I think he did also point out that because of their expense in comparison to SyQuest drives, they didn't catch on as much.

#20 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 15:05 68kMLA
Thanks for all the valuable info. Does anyone have a take apart guide? One of the HD/FD caddies on the one with the Radius card, is popping out, thus won't let me shut the top. Both HDs spin up, but none of them show video to one of my old VGA CRTs with an adaptor. I tried both, and the Radius card on the one that has it.

The Ram Doublers are very strange! I wonder how much ram this machine has, the SIMMS are not labeled. Both have the Developers switches.

None of them Chime though.

Pictures are being uploaded at:


Sorry for the bad quality, using an iPhone.

#22 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 15:22 68kMLA
Does the IIci need a ROM Simm? Both of mine don't have that...

#23 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 15:31 68kMLA
The IIci is rather picky about the monitors which it can provide video output to. Only ones that support sync-on-green are OK.

Try an Apple Color Plus '14, which is on sale at here. It's compatible with the built-in and (most likely) video card video of your Macintosh IIci.

and no, there were no ROM SIMMS ever made, so there is no need for one.

#24 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 16:13 68kMLA
Phew!

So an Adaptor that I am using will NOT work...

I also have the Radius Card in one of them, Does that have the same restrictions as the On-Board Video?

Are the RAM Doublers common? I have not seen those ever!

Both also have Cache cards in them.

#25 Sat, 8 Aug 2009 - 16:23 68kMLA
No, it's just your VGA monitor's problem.

and tbh, I have never seen a 30-pin one strangely. xD

and the radius card will prob. work with an LCD w/adapter fine.

#26 Sun, 9 Aug 2009 - 00:35 68kMLA
I am trying the Radius Direct Color GX, with an NEC Adaptor to both of my VGA CRTs and none of them detect it :-/

When I get back to NY, I'll try it with the LCD that worked with my Performa 6200.

Both HDs Spin up, but none of them chime... Any ideas?

I also got the one that didn't close to close. So yep, looking pretty good.

By the end of this week, I may be able to get an WhiteBook and a TiBook. That will make it the most conquests ever in a week for me.

eMac, IIcis, and 'Books.... MMMM

#27 Sun, 9 Aug 2009 - 06:35 68kMLA
The Bernoulii wasn't really all that rare and was actually a slightly better technology than Syquest's.
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Yeah - I've got the 2nd edition of Macs for Dummies, where David Pogue discusses the SyQuest vs Bernoulli issue, and he was saying that "you'll hear all the time about SyQuest disks going bad, but you'll never hear of a Bernoulli going bad", but I think he did also point out that because of their expense in comparison to SyQuest drives, they didn't catch on as much.
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I have an early version of that! its the Updated for System 7.5 one

#28 Sun, 9 Aug 2009 - 06:43 68kMLA
Check the speaker connections/try swapping the speaker units around.

If there is no change, everything might be due for a cap replacement. :( trag sells complete IIci kits though.

#29 Sun, 9 Aug 2009 - 16:11 68kMLA
Thanks for the info.

Here are the floppies that came with it. I will make images of them.

"Macintosh Basics" Says "Start up from this disc"

"Apple Network product installer"

"Macintosh Printing Tools"

"Macintosh System Tools"

"Macintosh Utilities Disk 1"

"Macintosh Utilities Disk 2"

"Microsoft Word, Apple Macintosh Series Version 4.0"

"Microsoft Word, Utilities 1, Apple Macintosh Series"

"Microsoft Word, Utilities 2, AutoMac III macro package, Word Finder electronic thesaurus, Apple Macintosh Series"

"Symantec Utilities for Macintosh II, SUM #1, For Macintosh Plus and higher"

"Symantec Utilities for Macintosh II, SUM #2, For Macintosh Plus and higher"

#30 Sun, 9 Aug 2009 - 19:46 68kMLA
Thanks for the info.Here are the floppies that came with it. I will make images of them.

"Macintosh Basics" Says "Start up from this disc"

"Apple Network product installer"

"Macintosh Printing Tools"

"Macintosh System Tools"

"Macintosh Utilities Disk 1"

"Macintosh Utilities Disk 2"

"Microsoft Word, Apple Macintosh Series Version 4.0"

"Microsoft Word, Utilities 1, Apple Macintosh Series"

"Microsoft Word, Utilities 2, AutoMac III macro package, Word Finder electronic thesaurus, Apple Macintosh Series"

"Symantec Utilities for Macintosh II, SUM #1, For Macintosh Plus and higher"

"Symantec Utilities for Macintosh II, SUM #2, For Macintosh Plus and higher"
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I'll host the images for you if you want.

#31 Sun, 9 Aug 2009 - 20:27 68kMLA
MacGeek: Thanks! But I have a server. :D When I get back to NYC I'll image em.

#32 Wed, 12 Aug 2009 - 00:41 68kMLA
Just to try helping, how many RAM sticks are there? The reason why the Macintosh IIcis might not be giving video is because you don't have matching sets installed.

Find a set of 4 matching SIMMS. Do not install the SIMM Doubler. Install the SIMMS in slots #1-4.

Attach your CRT w/Mac-VGA adapter to the Radius video card.

#33 Wed, 12 Aug 2009 - 18:30 68kMLA
I'll try some matching sets. There are just random sticks in there. The Radius card, display absoulutley nothing. I think it may be toast.

#34 Wed, 12 Aug 2009 - 18:39 68kMLA
Well, if you just toss in random sticks, then there won't be a display at all I believe. You have to have a matching set of four.

So don't toss out that Radius card! :O

#35 Fri, 14 Aug 2009 - 20:14 68kMLA
OK Good news and bad news. After removing the RAM that was put in there randomly it CHIMES!

And Half a second later, it does the death chime... on BOTH of them!!! xx( 8-o

Any ideas? PRAM?

#36 Fri, 14 Aug 2009 - 20:23 68kMLA
Sounds like you still did something wrong.

Grab a matching group of 4 30-pin SIMMS. That means they have to be the SAME.

Put them in slots 1-4, nowhere else and carefully install them until they are in the RAM slots and you see the RAM clips fastening the RAM right.

If you still get a death chime, something else is the culprit.

#37 Sat, 15 Aug 2009 - 00:20 68kMLA
Oh in groups of 4?

I was doing in groups of 2 will update with results

#38 Sat, 15 Aug 2009 - 05:34 68kMLA
Oh in groups of 4?I was doing in groups of 2 will update with results
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Yep, that's the key. The reason why your Macintosh IIci's gave off a death chime is because:

1: The RAM was configured/installed incorrectly (in your case)

2: The RAM is just toast, which is unlikely

Any "Old-World" Macs will do that too in any of the situations above however.

#39 Sat, 15 Aug 2009 - 13:55 68kMLA
WE HAVE A CHIME!!!! I put in 4 sticks of Mitsubishsi RAM Starting with one near the HD.!!!

#40 Sat, 15 Aug 2009 - 14:47 68kMLA
Congrats!

#41 Sat, 15 Aug 2009 - 18:05 68kMLA
OK So both IIcis now chime. I forgot my Mac-VGA Adapter in NYC, but I will be testing the one with the radius card at NYC and report back with the results. The power supply on the one without the radius card sometimes clunks at startup and the IIci does not boot. After a few tries it boots fine and stays alive. Not sure what this is . The other one's power supply is great.

#42 Sat, 15 Aug 2009 - 18:31 68kMLA
OK So both IIcis now chime. I forgot my Mac-VGA Adapter in NYC, but I will be testing the one with the radius card at NYC and report back with the results. The power supply on the one without the radius card sometimes clunks at startup and the IIci does not boot. After a few tries it boots fine and stays alive. Not sure what this is . The other one's power supply is great.
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The power supply issue is well-know, but here is an effective solution here quoted from the Macintosh IIci Homepage:

>RE the posting:<< Does anyone know if these 2 supplies are compatible, I need to replace the [iIc]x power supply and I may be able to get a [iI]ci supply. The main problem is that the computer does not turn on.>>

Before you buy a new power supply, try this: Get ahold of a cheap "power strip" with an on/off switch. Plug the IIcx into the power strip. When the IIcx is off, leave the power strip switch in the OFF position. When you're ready to boot up, reach down and flip the power strip on. Wait a few seconds, and press the keyboard power-on button. When it's time to shut down the computer, go through the normal shutdown procedure. After the IIcx "turns itself off", reach down and flip the power strip to OFF. Try this - you may be VERY pleasantly surprised with the results...

The theory is that the +5 V charge is still there briefly when you send current to the power supply. If you can start up the Mac quickly enough, you won't need the trickle charge while it's running.

Many people have asked me if I have a schematic for the power supply - I don't. Please send me one if you have it so I may post it on this site. Jan van Gennip did send some instructions (PDF) on how he repaired an Aztec power supply - thanks Jan.

I believe there are at least two makes of power supplies for the IIci, G.E. and Aztec. Mine is a G.E. and I haven't had a problem with it since I got it 5 years ago. Luckily, power supplies for the IIci are only around $15.
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#43 Sun, 16 Aug 2009 - 10:56 68kMLA
Pictures are being uploaded at:
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:O

RAM ... on carpet ... /twitch twitch

#44 Sun, 16 Aug 2009 - 12:31 68kMLA
Yes Bunsen, I already warned him about that, as he did the same with the Radius video card. ;)

Not trying to make an example out of you here Mars478...I'm just posting this as a public service...I don't want anyone here zapping their Macs with ESD! :(

#45 Sun, 16 Aug 2009 - 14:05 68kMLA
I was just too hyped and forgot about the little things... Typical me. It all works fine though.

#46 Sun, 16 Aug 2009 - 14:23 68kMLA
I've had that kind of stuff lying all over the place, including carpet, and have never lost a single thing from static electricity.

...not that I condone this kind of behavior, I'm just saying... :I

#47 Sun, 16 Aug 2009 - 17:33 68kMLA
I can confirm there is absolutely very little wrong with placing bare electronics on a carpet. Indeed, I have tested motherboards, PSUs, hard drives, etc - yes, basically a whole computer in parts, on a carpet and all was perfectly safe. However, this is no reason to ignore common ESD precautions.

#48 Mon, 17 Aug 2009 - 00:13 68kMLA
I realise they're probably fine; it still makes me twitch every time though.

The SIMM doublers are a rare and handy score.

#49 Mon, 17 Aug 2009 - 02:07 68kMLA
Oh thats cool! I am shipping two RAM Doublers if our PowerBook 150 deal works out.

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